Is Friedman Right (so to speak)? Does 9/11 Amount to WWIII?

[BurtWorm]

I personally doubt it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/08/opinion/08FRIE.html


What you are witnessing is why Sept. 11 amounts to World War III — the third great totalitarian challenge to open societies in the last 100 years. As the longtime Middle East analyst Abdullah Schleiffer once put it to me: World War II was the Nazis, using the engine of Germany to try to impose the reign of the perfect race, the Aryan race. The cold war was the Marxists, using the engine of the Soviet Union to try to impose the reign of the perfect class, the working class. And 9/11 was about religious totalitarians, Islamists, using suicide bombing to try to impose the reign of the perfect faith, political Islam.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

1. yes, check this out

"I suggest that the war we have seen thus far is merely a powder train leading to the magazine. The magazine is Fourth Generation war by a wide variety of Islamic non-state actors, directed at America and Americans (and local governments friendly to America) everywhere. The longer America occupies Iraq, the greater the chance that the magazine will explode. If it does, God help us all."

http://www.lewrockwell.com/lind/lind3b.html

[IrateCitizen]

2. Friedman's a paid mouthpiece of the establishment

Always a good thing to keep in mind when reading his columns. He's one of those who support the unprovoked invasion and subsequent occupation of another country for the purpose of "spreading democracy throughout the Middle East."

[papau]

14. Bible describes Terrorist problems - so 3000 years of Terrorist war ahead

we will get back to you after that as to civil liberties and economic growth including jobs.

Hey - during the last 3000 years, the 3 or four terrorist free years under Clinton - if they were terrorist free years - were a "bubble".

[grannylib]

3. Close, but wrong. It is the religious totalitarianism of the Christian

'Right' that we should fear in this country, whose actions and beliefs are making for self-fulfilling prophecy in the Middle East; crazy bastards WANT Armageddon to happen soon, so they can be proven right!

[loftycity]

6. Afraid of being Left Behind

You are right--has anyone read those crazy books?
It is the Right Wing Mantra. It is so weird.
The main character's line in the Left Behind series is "Make no Mistake."
And who was saying that...to many times to count?

[BurtWorm]

15. Let me guess...Could it be...mmm...I don't know...

[el_gato]

4. friedman is a psycho

when you go around saying the "invisible hand" has to be accompanied by the "invisible fist" and cares more about mcdonalds than anything else you know you've lost it

[DuctapeFatwa]

5. Close. it is about greedy totalitarians, imperialists, using

crashing airplanes into high profile buildings to to try to impose the reign of the perfect economy, more money in their pockets.

[ochazuke]

7. Fried-man is over the top

It's entirely different from anything that we could call World War III. Would the campaign to stop rightists in the USA from taking over the entire government be called World War III? No, yet that is the real threat hanging over us -- and those rightists use the boogy man of Islamic extremism to justify their rule.

Islamism is a predictable reaction to America's dominance of world culture and the global economy; and our military machine.

We have to pull back from the dreams of promoting globalism through empire. If not, then we will have a dubya dubya three.

And we will be on the side of evil. (suck on that, Coulter!)

[legin]

8. My new year's resolution

is to have one vaguely charitable thought about Thomas Friedman in 2004.

I think it is safe to assume that this is going to go the same way as most peoples new year's resolutions.

[Cocoa]

9. calling it a war is propaganda

Afghanistan is a war, Iraq is a separate war, there is no overarching war on terror.

[IrateCitizen]

11. But that's Friedman's trade, after all...

Propaganda is why he's paid as well as he is.

[Soul On Ice]

10. Friedman

makes me sick!

Anyone hear of the forum which is devoted to bias at the NYTimes?

[DulceDecorum]

12. Suicide? What suicide?

Several of the so-called hijackers are STILL ALIVE.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/hijackers.html

WOW.
Muslims can suspend the Laws of Physics
http://www.serendipity.li/wot/mslp_i.htm
http://www.serendipity.li/wot/mslp_i.htm

AND come back from the dead.

The Christians only have Jesus and Lazarus,
but the Muslims have EIGHT guys who came back from the dead
just two years ago.
IT IS A MIRACLE.
Let's all convert to Islam.
We can't beat these guys.
They have a reset button hidden somewhere.
And since we can't beat them, let's join them.
And get our own reset buttons so that we don't have to die either.

[Ficus]

13. World War V maybe?

I've heard James Woolsey (a Democrat) advance this idea - that we are in World War IV.

But if we're counting, lets say it's World War V.

I. French and Indian War (here in the states) or the 7 Years War was the first real "global war" between superpowers (1756-1763)

The Great War - self explanatory

World War II - self explanatory

The Cold War - it was a global sieres of wars (Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, not to mention all the shennanigans with low level surrogate wars such as in Nicaragua) that lasted until the fall of the Soviet Union. 1945-1991

The war against radical Islamic terror networks - yes, there is a global network of armed groups making war against the US. (Bin Laden declared war on the USA in 1996-Present) Sorry tinfoil hatters, the al qaeda and friends are real.

on edit: I don't include Iraq in the above mentioned war. Totally separate matter, at least before the war started.

[robcon]

16. Friedman is right

The Islamo-fascists declared war on the West and America on 9/11. Our response has been clumsy, stuttering and unfocused. Afghanistan was a battle in that war. Iraq was irrelevant to that war.

[Terwilliger]

20. Hmm...ok...well, they've been pretty bad about following up

unless, of course, you believe that Bush and his lackeys have prevented any concerted attack by the "Islamo-fascists" for over two years

[IrateCitizen]

21. You couldn't possibly be more wrong.

You could try, but you would still fail.

That's a nice term, "Islamo-fascists". Nice, neat and compartmentalized. Allows you to completely ignore outside influences or history, and instad concentrate on the black/white view of the world as being split between good and evil.

The true enemy here is a particularly violent manifestation of fundamentalism. The fact that it is Islamic in specificity is immaterial. The primary factor is that it is fundamentalism.

In essence, that is what the major struggle in the world is all about -- enlightenment vs. fundamentalism. It also happens more within each one of us, rather than in the outside world. It is the proverbial "... battle between good and evil in men's hearts" spoken of by Gandhi, followed up with his conclusion of "... so that is where all future wars should be fought."

After all, the Nazis were another brand of violent fundamentalists -- except they were POLITICAL rather than RELIGIOUS fundamentalists. But the source does not matter, because in essence they have the same aims.

The recent issue of "UU World", a publication of the Unitarian Universalist Association has an excellent article on this, one which I tend to agree very much with. Read it if you wish, you can find it here: http://www.uuworld.org/2004/01/feature2.html.

[LeahMira]

23. Sorry...

The Islamo-fascists declared war on the West and America on 9/11.

If you really want to make it into a war, there have been similar acts of war happening elsewhere in the world for decades. Somehow, I don't think that the U.S. represents "the West"... unless it's the Wild West you're talking.

[Ms. Clio]

27. sure okay

And the Christofascists and Judeofascists declared war on the world when they invaded Iraq.

Funny how they seem to have all the bombers, tanks, and troops.

[SoCalDem]

17. 9/11 was about frustration, anger, and lax security..That's all !!

Our foreign policy with the third world has not changed over the years, BUT.. the mass communication HAS.. In the past, a few troublemakers may have had the funds to travel to "the west" and then return to their country to tell the tales of decadence in the west. They may have tried to rile up their supporters, but it was usually to rebel against their own governments because of their relationship and complicity with the US.. With the advent of the satellite and the free-flow of travelers, more and more people have seen for themselves the unfairness of it all..

Consider how poor people must feel when they watch western television.. If they are living in squalor, and have barely enough to eat, and must watch their children die from water-borne diseases, that a few cents' worth of medicine could prevent, the anger is understandable.. Poor, uneducated people are very susceptible to fundamentalist religion.. It amazes me when people claim shock and surprise, that "other people" do not like us.. We have been living ina bubble for so many years, and the bubble has burst.. Our government treats other countries like crap, and since they cannot "get" our government, sabotage & terrorism is their most effective tool..

I seriously doubt that we will ever see a classic "World War" ever again.. There are few countries that could/would wage war that way. The norm for "war" will probably look like Iraq , Afghanistan and Lebanon/Palestinian/Israel.. The "bad guys" do not have to "win" the war, in order to "win".. They win by altering OUR perceptions and lifestyle..

If we have an open society, we are vulnerable.. If we close our society, we are still vulnerable, AND we are afraid and suspicious..

Until the issues of the third world are addressed in a straightforward way, we will never be "safe".. We can send armies, equipment and bombs, but we cannot kill a mindset or a philosophy with weapons..

No one will convince me , that if we had been paying attention, there would not have been an attack on 9/11..

If we spent the same amount of money to rebuild the infrastructure, as we did on war-fighting, the people who hate us, might not hate us as much as they do..

Afghganistan "should" be safe by now...but it is not..

Why didn't we use the money and manpower to flood the place with food, build up communities,build hospitals,help the people there set up businesses, etc?..

People who are well fed, clothed, sheltered, educated and hopeful, do NOT make war with their neighbors.. These people have nothing to lose, so they take that "last fateful step".. We know that they cannot "win", but they do not know it.. Their life on earth is so horrible, that they are willing to die and take the "enemy" with them, because they hope the afterlife is better..

Make them want to live in the here-and-now, and they will be less likely to want to take us with them on their trip to the promised land :(

Terrorists are after attention..and they always get it:( The whack-a-mole approach does not address the underlying reason..

[Terwilliger]

18. I think WWIII started on M20, 2003

9/11 did not benefit al Qaeda nor did it benefit the fundamentalist goals of that (supposed) organization, nor any other group with fundie ethics

9/11 benefitted only one person

[ProfessorGAC]

19. Syllogistic Nonsense

The Professor

[kentuck]

24. I agree with the Professor...

Nonsense, no different from what comes out of the mouths of the paranoids in the White House. Terrorism is more of a challenge to future American foreign policy than it is a "war".

[LeahMira]

22. Utter nonsense!

What you are witnessing is why Sept. 11 amounts to World War III — the third great totalitarian challenge to open societies in the last 100 years.

If the same thing had happened in any other country of the world it would certainly be a tragedy, but it certainly would not be the start of a worldwide war.

How many Israelis have died over the years as a result of terrorism? How many died as a consequence of Saddam Hussein's terrorism? Still, the U.S. barely blinks. Simply because the U.S. tragedy happened on a single day does not make the losses any less or any greater for the families of the victims.

The U.S. has got to get over the idea that this country cannot be attacked by terrorists without that attack being turned into World War III while other nations of the world endure terrorist attacks and go on. Who the hell do we think we are?

[PeakOil2008]

25. Historians will have the final say

Ameri-centric Right-wing think tank analysts always like to spout off nonsense like this. Personally, I wouldn't put too much stock in it. A true "World War" is a direct confrontation between key international powers. A Bush-led US pummelling Afghanistan and Iraq with negligible support from reluctant allies doesn't exactly qualify to be called World War anything.

Now toss in Russia and China in millitant opposition to the US, and you may very well have a genuine World War III upon your hands.

[library_max]

26. Sigh. Friedman used to be sane and frequently intelligent.

But he has gone nucking futz over Iraq. He bought the WMD argument and the Al Qaeda connection argument and he's been playing CYA ever since. The most you can say about Al Qaeda and 9/11 is that they were trying to coerce the USA into leaving the Islamic world alone - stop trying to "modernize" (westernize) them and stop supporting the Saudi royal family and their kind. It's a stretch to interpret "fuck off!" as an attempt to impose anything on anybody. It's an even bigger stretch to equate a terrorist act unsupported by any nation-state with a world war.

[nolabels]

28. Its about religious wing nuts trying to impose there beliefs onto others

Why does a person need religion to die in the first place. It happens to everybody eventually, no matter what. Falwell and Bin laden can both shove it and who gives a rats butt if the fat lady sings at the end? When my time comes nobody will be able to do anything about it, this I know and am certain of. That knowledge and parable, I take from Socrates, it is succinct and non deniable. Until that time pass another :beer:

P.S. Tell Friedman that he and his Zionist vision will be blowing in the wind just like the dust from the rest of all of it about ten thousand years from now.