13 Y.O. To Start Sex Change Treatments

[matcom]

<snip>

PERMITTING a 13-year-old girl who thinks she is a boy to begin sex-change treatment is like allowing a child who imagines he is a horse to undergo transformative surgery, a leading bioethicist said yesterday amid outrage over the Family Court ruling.

"I find it to be an extreme misuse of surgery and medicine to treat a psychological condition in this fashion," John Fleming, director of the Southern Cross Bioethics Institute, said yesterday. "The condition is not being treated but the fantasy is being colluded with."

For the first time, an Australian court has ruled that a child who is biologically one sex can begin hormone therapy with a view to changing to the other sex because of purely psychiatric issues.

The court heard that Alex, who was raised as a boy by her now-deceased father and had been rejected by her mother, didn't play with dolls, used men's toilets and had few female friends.

Under outgoing Family Court Chief Justice Alastair Nicholson's decision, Alex is to be allowed to start reversible hormone treatment followed by therapy with some permanent effects when she is 16. But sex-change surgery will not be permitted until she is 18.

http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,9281383%255E421,00.html

[TheFarseer]

1. wow

This is the kind of thing repubs will point to and say, "look what those liberals are doing to our country"

[ret5hd]

2. "wow"

unless you're from australia, you can't really say that. and if you think any of us here are truly afraid of what the repuGs say, pull your head out.

[mobuto]

4. I still don't think its right

Sex-change operations are a rather serious undertaking, and I don't think they're something that 13 year old can provide informed consent for. When the kid turns 18, then allow it to take place.

[ret5hd]

7. read the top thread...

only hormones till she is 18...reversible till then

[mobuto]

10. Is it?

I'm not sure I like the idea of giving a developing teenager sex hormones either. Maybe its reversible for an adult, but for a teenager? How do we know what the effects are?

[slinkerwink]

27. yes, it's reversible

:eyes:

[TheFarseer]

9. not sure what australia has to do with anything

I just think a 13 year old getting a sex change is not right. I don't think you know nearly enough to make a life decision at that age and I'm sure most people would agree with that.

[ret5hd]

11. that's where the girl's at, that's where the judge is at...

that's the country where the dispute is at...

so, unless you're from australia, how in the fuck are the repuGs going to say "look what the liberals are doing to our country"?

[TheFarseer]

12. oops,missed that

but still I was making a broader point.

[slinkerwink]

3. I don't give a fuck as to what they say

:shrug:

[qb]

5. That horse comment - what a dismissive prick.

I think a 13 Y.O. has a pretty good idea of his or her sexual identity. Also, the first phase is reversible.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

6. i think a13 year old

is quite capable of making this decision.....infact more so at that age than any other

[histohoney]

8. Either way

I think it's a good thing that the irreversible surgery has to wait.

Does this 13 yr old really know what she wants, her now-deceased father raised her as a boy. Her choice or the father's?

Time is on the child's side, I just hope she will get the opportunity to continue counseling that let's her decide either way with out outside pressures to please others.

[MadHound]

13. What is the big deal

Hell, they postpone the surgery end of the transformation until 18. And sex changes on children have been performed for decades in this country, without the child's consent. Ever hear of hermaphrodites?

This just strikes me as another "shock" piece to throw red meat to the fundies and wingers. Big whoop:eyes:

[Mass_Liberal]

14. I am relentlessly liberal on nearly every topic

but on this one, I guess I'm conservative. You are what you are. So I don't care who you have sex with, I have absoloutely no problem with being gay, lesbian, or bisexual but changing your sex?? That's a little wierd. I think people should just accept who they are.

[Nikia]

15. I agree

It isn't like she'll be stoned or anything for wearing men's clothing or choosing to be an auto mechanic when she's an adult. She can date lesbians if that is her preference. I know many girls who grew up preferring "boy things" and preferred hanging out with the guys. Some are very butch as adults. Some are not. Either way, they are female, looking and acting the way they choose.
I think that teenagers should go through normal puberty before messing with their hormones. Perhaps the idea was for her/him to go through male puberty instead of female puberty.
Regardless, a sex change operation is a big decision. It is effectively irreversible. It should not be undergone in any form until the child has reached the age of consent.

[noiretextatique]

18. brandon teena

life isn't always peachy for those who don't play along with the the proscribed gender roles and rules. and sometimes, they do get stoned, beaten, or in teena's case...raped and murdered.

[gold_bug]

35. If she goes through puberty

she'll end up with a body that doesn't match her gender identity. That's the purpose of hormone treatments, to prevent the trauma of a feminized body for a female-to-male transsexual.

[JohnKleeb]

16. I agree its a little strange to me too tho I do believe it should be ok

However the issue isnt that she wants to change her sex, its the age she wants to change her sex at, shes 16, my age, and shes undeveloped biologically, thats what the debate is over.

[chicaloca]

26. that's a good point....

But doctors regularly perform sex-change surgery on newborn babies who have ambiguous genitalia, as MadHound pointed out earlier. I just read an article yesterday about an American woman whose entire clitoris was removed when she was a baby because it was "too big" and might have been confused for a penis. However, it was too small to be a penis, so off it went. That type of shit still happens in the U.S. to this day, and I think it's more important to stop that than focus on a teenager who has decided herself that she wants hormones and eventually a sex change. Grrrr.... I'd like to bitch-slap the journalist who decided to make a big deal of this poor kid's decision.

BTW, I think it's supercool that at your age you're able to accept her decision...I don't know that I would have been so open-minded when I was still in high school! :) I would have been more like "eeeeeeewww, that's guh-ross!"

[JohnKleeb]

30. thanks I try

I have grown more mature, believe me I still have the immature mind concept, I dont understand it but I am like its better not to make it my business. That is true about new born babies. If she wants to be male, and is sure, of let her be male. Thanks for the compliment on my open-mindness, I try to be.

[Book Lover]

24. You can be as conservative as you like

but medical literature and practice collides with your beliefs. This is a part of sexual health that science is just beginning to understand; what parts of the brain direct the physiological and psychological parts of human sexuality. If a person exhibits a disorder, why stand in the way of that person's health?

[slinkerwink]

28. what if you were born female, but felt that you were male?

are you saying that you'd ignore your mental gender?

[Nikia]

34. I am female but behave as I am

I will work on empathyzing with this but this is my point of view.
There is nothing that I think twice about doing because of my gender. When I was a child, this even extended to disregarding etiquette and I neither liked wearing dresses nor behaved "properly" when I was forced to wear them. According to most personality tests, I mentally tend androgynous on the feminine side, but probably was on the masculine side of androgynous when I was a child. I played with most toys, liked most school subjects and excelled most at math and science, but preferred actively playing outdoors and sports. I felt more feminized as I grew my female body and only then did become interested in such things as dating boys, looking attractive or even clean, settling down, and having children.

[noiretextatique]

36. you don't use "men's" restrooms, do you?

that's one thing i bet you think twice about doing because of your gender. i bet there are a lot women (including me) who were just like you as a child. not all of us became interested in dating boys and having children after puberty, though most of the the lesbians i know (including the butchiest ones) have children.
being transgendered (feeling that your body is the wrong gender) is quite different than rebelling against rigid sex roles socialization, or even being androgynous.
and of course, grown folks are having sex-change operations every single day, so not everyone will "grow out of it" as you seem to suggest.

[noiretextatique]

17. it may save her/him a lot of heartache

even though it makes a lot of folks uncomfortable. bottom line...it's her/his decision, not yours.

[Deja Q]

19. While the body is still developing?

Isn't that a bit dangerous to be feeding foreign hormones into a growing body?

Nobody should allow this. Not until they're 21 or when the body finishes the growth cycle (~20 years).

[geniph]

20. Almost anyone with a transgender friend

knows their stories of heartache and heartbreak from being born in the wrong body. And some people really are born the wrong outward gender. I have not the slightest doubt of that. Most of them know something is not right from the time they're quite small. It's a horrible thing to live in the wrong body. I'm quite sure he knows who he is and who he needs to become.

[southerngirlwriter]

21. I'm not sure that's what's going on here.

Is this child really transgendered? If so, then this treatment seems reasonable.

I'm not sure that's what's going on, though. It seems that the mother's rejection and the father's raising her as the opposite sex may mean she/he is just kind of messed up in the head right now. Dealing with parental issues.

I think it's a good thing that the irreversible stuff has to wait.

[slinkerwink]

29. I doubt it----read the article a bit more closely, the child's behavior

is indicative of that of a transgendered person.

[ringmastery]

22. I'm confused about the surgery

How does a female become male?

What do they build a penis for her out of?

[jpgray]

23. Making big decisions during puberty is the DUMBEST thing one could do

As for knowing your sexuality, I could get turned on by a phone book when I was thirteen--this sounds like the case of a bizarrely raised kid with social problems acting strangely, and is at this point a case for therapy, not a case for Doctor Regenitalize.

[Van Helsing]

25. Amen to that.

I feel the same way.

[noiretextatique]

31. not really...

sexual orientation is pretty much established in most people before puberty...if you buy the "born that way" argument.
and of course, this case isn't about "knowing your sexuality,' it's about knowing one's gender orientation.

[jpgray]

32. I don't think orientation is a choice

But in a situation where the child has a gender identity forced upon him/her by a parent, things require a little more care, I think. The child was not free to find her identity, so great care should be taken that a decision isn't made that will later be regretted.

[noiretextatique]

33. that may or may not be true

but it does sounds like the father's actions might have caused some of her desire to change, and i agree that this child needs some counseling.