"I can't play with you 'cause you're going to hell."

[AlFrankenFan]

I was on a walk with my mom today when she was telling me one of the most awful things I have heard in a while.

It's never been easy being a Jew in a, say, 80-99% Christian area like where I live in Laguna Niguel, CA. Though we do not attend temple serivices regularly, I feel lucky to be of Jewish heritage, and I've never let anti-Semitism get the best of me.

Apparently, there are a few little Jewish girls in my sister's kindergarten class. One of them is named Dana, an autistic but highly intelligent and social little girl who is a good friend of my sister's.

Dana, being very social, makes a lot of friends, and a week ago she made a new friend, a Christian. Dana asked if she could come over and play at this little girl's house. However, the girl replied, "You're Jewish. I can't play with you 'cause you're going to hell."

When her mother came to pick up the little girl from kindergarten, the little girl came over to Dana's mom and said, "You're the Jewish girl's mom. I can't play with your daughter because you're both going to hell."

Now, the teacher has not done anything about this, but she is very shocked that a child, a six-year old child, would go around saying such anti-Semitic propaganda.

What I don't understand is how a parent can possibly tell their child such a thing. If I were to meet this girl's parents (even though I'm 14 and 5'2") I would go on all offensive. This is absolutely unacceptable. I've always gotten the "wrong impression" of Christians, that they are for the most part immoral and hypocrites, and rarely have I met a nice one. I was actually beginning to think things were getting better in the Christian church/belief system until this happened.

There still is a lot of hate for Jews...unfortunately I now know that it isn't going to go away for a long time.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[drumwolf]

4. uh, kalian.....

He wasn't meaning to imply that Jews are the only ones being persecuted. This was a personal anecdote, by someone who's Jewish, not Muslim, about something that actually happened to him.

I'm of Korean descent and I used to get anti-Asian shit all the time as a kid. Maybe if I post a little personal story about some racism I got, are you going to get on my case about not focusing on racism against African-Americans or Latinos or some other non-Asian group?

[kalian]

17. Uhhh...drumwolf....

its seems that certain groups are out for pity more than others
and usually get that pity thanks to "lobbyists" and other some such.
The thing is, muslim girls that are ridiculed because of their
headscarves don't receive the same pity nor support. Why is that?

[Catholic Sensation]

29. what a stupid thing to say

oh yeah that was FrankenFan's reason for posting: pity.

The thing is, muslim girls that are ridiculed because of their
headscarves don't receive the same pity nor support. Why is that?

Find me one fucking post on this forum where a Muslim girl told a story about being ridiculed for wearing Muslim traditional wear and was on the receiving end of nothing but scorn.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lizz612]

31. You are missing the point

The post isn't meant to be a detailed outline hatred in schools today, its just a story, told from AFF's perspective. You can't say that we don't support Muslim girls because of what AFF said about the hatred the around him (her).
And to imply that AFF is just here to "lobby" for pity because he(she) saw anti-semitism is nutty.

[kalian]

36. Didn't say that we here at DU don't support muslim girls....

where did I allude to that? I was referring to how government, whether
it be state or federal doesn't pay the same attention to other
ethnic issues.

[Lizz612]

40. I think you needed to make that clearer

I didn't think you were referring to the government. To that I would say that the places that I know about have been getting better, they're terrible now, but getting better.
But thats not the issue, its a story of a child repeating her parents fundamentalism and how it really is hatred at the core.

[AlFrankenFan]

45. I realize that, kalian

But that was not the subject. Even though I know this goes on, I would post it if I saw an example of it. The thing is, I'm not Muslim, so it would be a bit impersonal. I wrote this because myself being a Jew, it made me realize that anti-Semitism is still alive in well. If a Muslim found something hypocritical with something else, or a Christian, they would do the same thing.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

2. I have become so intolerant of...

Hate Junkies.I mean, I am just really fed up with these shitheads.

Always speak up. Always. I would approach that girl's parents. Really.

[GreenPartyVoter]

3. That's the "straight and narrow" way of thinking for you :(

If it makes you feel any better, I can guarantee you this kid would not play with me for the same reason. And I am a Christian. *lol*

Still, I hope the teacher steps in on this, even if it is to teach the child tact in expressing herself. Your poor little sister must be so hurt. :(


Am editing this to add that the austistic kids I worked with who could talk had no self-edit button. Whatever they thought came gushing out of their mouths. (One of them went up to a recently widowed teacher and announced, "Hey, your husband's dead.") Honestly, autistic kids process things differently, especially where emotions are concerned.

Would Jesus love a liberal? You bet!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/liberalchristians.htm

[pinto]

5. support your sister first. let her know you support her. somewhere,

the hatred must end. Easy for me to say, Im not Jewish, I'm 51 years old, Irish Catholic....duh,

but no kindergarden girl should have to deal with this. Protect her.

[bluestateguy]

6. What wonderful "Christians"

Most mainstream Christian theologians and even Billy Graham argue that it is not up to us to decide who does and does not get into heaven.

These fundamentalistwackos claim to love and support Israel and the Jewish people, but they really believe that the Jews are going to hell if they don't convert.

[AlFrankenFan]

14. Hmm I may have new found appriciation for Billy Graham

Good point.

[liberalhistorian]

42. The fundies, especially the neocons,

are actually very anti-semitic, although they hide it VERY well. They firmly support Israel only because their interpretation of Revelation is that Israel must exist as a country again and vanquish its enemies before Armageddon can happen. They don't give a shit about Jews otherwise, are very anti-semitic.

[Carl21014]

7. I think you are over blowing it!

Kids say this sort of stuff because they barely understand their own religion and take the limited knowledge they have literally.

We're christian and my daughter(10) came home with a similar story about Emily across telling her she was going to hell because she doesn't go to church.

Just don't make too much of it. Kids are always mean just because that's what kids do.

[NightTrain]

13. "Don't make too much of it?"

<<Kids are always mean just because that's what kids do.>>

The kids with whom I went to school took immense pleasure in treating me as if my existence on this planet were an abomination. Now I'm 38 years old and I still have self-esteem issues because of that shit. If my teachers had intervened all those years ago, perhaps I wouldn't have these problems today.

And remember Colombine? Just another school, I guess, with a faculty that "didn't make too much of it" when kids like Harris and Klebold were tormented and ostracized.

"Don't make too much of it," my ass! :grr::nuke:

[Carl21014]

20. Your children's problems...

or strength will come from you as a parent. You can't shield your children from the world no matter how hard you try. If this teacher stops it where she can it will still surface someplace else.

All you can do is prepare your children to face what always has been and always will be a mean, cruel world.

[liberalhistorian]

44. I'm sorry, I don't mean to be rude, but

that's just plain, pure bullshit. Like Dean (NightTrain) I was constantly harassed and persecuted all through school and still suffer the effects of it at 39 years of age. It's the teacher's duty to step in and stop shit like this wherever and whenever it happens.

THAT is why shit like the school shootings happen, kids being treated like shit and laughed at and ridiculed and harassed and no one does a damn thing, then they wonder why the kids explode. Had I had the least little violent streak in me, I could easily have done something to my tormenters and the teachers and administrators who refused to even see anything at all, let alone do anything about it. There were times when it got to the point where school was pure torture, and that's the case for far too many kids now.

And there is NO EXCUSE for not doing anything about it anymore, that whole "kids will be kids" bullshit has been proven to be just that, bullshit, and it's tremendously damaging to kids if nothing is done. My parents are both retired teachers and they NEVER EVER put up with ANYTHING at all like that in their classrooms.

[TrogL]

23. Fundie parents really tell their kids this kind of nonsense

Some kids are only allowed to play with members of their own narrow sect, which gives them a choice of basically two playmates.

[Ladyhawk]

54. Um, no.

When I was about seven years old, I told a Jehovah's Witness girl she was going to hell. Did I do this because I was trying to be mean? No. I did it because it was what my parents and church taught me.

The JW kid told me she was leaving and would never come back. She never did. I felt really guilty about it, but I knew she was going to hell because that's what I was taught.

Kids learn this stuff from somewhere. And you can bet it's usually from the parents.

[Maat]

8. You poor guy! I grew up in San Clemente, Ca.

I'm 45! Moved to the Inland Empire 'bout 15 years ago and haven't missed Orange County since.

I'm so sorry you had to go through this experience. I was a social worker for seven years, and I didn't see this kind of crud in the worst areas of the cities in San Bernardino County! But I would kind of expect it in O.C.

I was raised to be a Republican -- attended a pro-Feminist rally at 17. Thought my dad was going to kill me. But he just laughed -- said only his kid would go up to Repubs and tell them off.

So I'm a converted progressive.

Don't let bigotry get to you. Confronting them would be a waste of time. My child has been taught to appreciate the wisdom in all religions. If she ever said anything like that -- she would be corrected and there would be a consequence.

The hatred within them will destroy them eventually -- do not let it destroy you or your family. Forget about it.

Of course, I was in love with a Jewish kid in second grade. And he did tell me that he couldn't marry me 'cause I was a gentile. I came home cryin' and asked my mom what that was. It all worked out -- we're friends now -- and I've been married for 20 years to the greatest guy in the World. But I still laugh at that little trauma.

[hellboy]

10. I'm surprised that Mel Gibson's "Passion" movie didn't heal

the Jewish and Christian faiths.

[U2Fanatic]

46. it surprises me how conservative So Cal can be...

my corner of the IE is pretty right-wing and it drives me nuts. OC is just plain infurating sometimes.

[dawn]

53. Yeah, San Clemente is one of the most freeperish areas of OC.

It's sad, really. It's so laid-back and peaceful, but I hate it down there!

[cornermouse]

9. Same thing my mother told me about Catholics when I was little.

[MissMarple]

15. And a Catholic told me I was going to hell. Ha!

Some folks just need to feel superior so they can be more secure. Sad commentary on human nature.

[AlFrankenFan]

16. Hehe

A Presybeterian told me I was going to hell hehehehe but that was because they had the impression I was an atheist...didn't even ask me. Oy vey.

[IronLionZion]

35. Someone on DU told me I was going to hell too!

because s/he thought I was atheist, even though most DUers know I'm Catholic. Funny how that works huh?

And no, I'm not going to name any names.

[AspenRose]

11. And repugs get upset when diversity is encouraged in school

THIS is PRECISELY why it's needed.

I'm so sorry to hear about this.

[yardwork]

12. I'm very sorry that this happened in your community.

Not all Christians are like this. Many, if not most, Christians are tolerant, kind people who do not have biases against others or other beliefs. In the Episcopal church in which I was raised, we were encouraged to celebrate our shared heritage with the Jewish faith. One year we celebrated a Passover Seder, recognizing that Jesus was Jewish himself. Anyone who expressed a bigoted opinion about those of another faith would have been shunned.

I no longer belong to any Christian church, but I have many Christian friends, and they would be appalled by what happened to your sister's friend.

That said, it is a sad fact that some Christians have very narrow views. Their lives are motivated and ruled by fear - fear that Satan, who is a real presence in their lives, will trick them into eternal damnation. Most educated people find this kind of thinking absurd, but unfortunately, it exists. The fear and bigotry is not directed at people of Jewish faith alone - it is directed at anybody who does not believe in their particular group's local church. Catholics, Jews, Protestants of most denominations, Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, Pagans, Agnostics, and certainly Atheists - they are all bound for hell in this narrow world-view. Children are taught to fear contact with almost everybody, lest they make a misstep and end up in hell. It's a form of psychological child abuse.

I think that this teacher should follow up with the offending child's parents and make it clear that these kinds of comments are not allowed at school. This is an example of hate speech, and the school should not tolerate it. The family has a right to teach their child what they wish, but the school does not and should not tolerate hate speech on the premises.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

38. In the context of the Gibson film

my church actually had a statement on its Holy Week service bulletins, saying that the Jews were not responsible for the death of Christ, that God's covenant with the Jews remains in force, that the Jews are not in need of conversion, and that anti-Semitism is a sin.

[ProudGerman]

18. You want I should go have a 'talk' with this girls mother? [/Tony Soprano}

Sounds to me that the burgeoning nut job is only echoing her mothers bigotry. Where else did she hear it?

The teacher should be harassed for not doing anything about this. It's completely unacceptable that she's doing nothing and even condonging it through her inaction. I'd make a stink about it, and even bluntly ask her why she agrees with this hate mongering.

Oy vey indeed.

[gmoney]

19. Uh, I thought we ARE in hell...

...but maybe I'm just spending too much time watching the news, and not enough time among nature and splendor.

[Sagatious8]

21. I was 100% with you...

until I got to this sentence:

"I've always gotten the "wrong impression" of Christians, that they are for the most part immoral and hypocrites, and rarely have I met a nice one."

Generalization is the first step to bigotry.

[Lizz612]

24. I think the poster

was saying that they have always had the wrong impressions made. "...and rarely have I met a nice one." That sort of implies that its not a generalization as much as an acknowledgment of a small sample size.

Edit:formating and spelling

[Sagatious8]

26. meaning

that she's rarely met a nice wrong impression, I guess. I was hoping that I misread that somehow, thanks.

[Lizz612]

28. Yeah

The poster hasn't yet had a good impression. Which is unfortunate, but not their fault.

[AlFrankenFan]

48. What I meant was...

I had never met a Christian whom I had known to have not done wrong, and when I did, it was a rare occurence. Maybe I should have said "that they were for the most part immoral and hypocrites". I didn't quite phrase that sentence right. I didn't say all Christians are immoral and hypocritical, and I don't think all of them are, and if you took that wrong and was offended I sincerely apologize.

[TrogL]

22. "autistic and highly...social"

Isn't that a contradiction in terms?

[YellowRubberDuckie]

33. No it's not...

We watched a video about this same thing, and there are different forms of it...and if they get really great behavioral modification therapy, they can completely recover.
Duckie

[AlFrankenFan]

47. Yeah, I thought at first it was too

Because my sister is also autistic, and she is selectively mute and is not social at all. This girl is almost like an acception.

[Deja Q]

25. Isn't religion wonderful?

There's a lot of hate for lots of people and Jews aren't the only ones.

And most of this blind hatred points to religious intolerance, paranoid delusion, fear, or paranoid delusion based on religious intolerance and possibly built up by fear.

It's tragic, to say the least. But this is how people want to live: Cowering behind archaic rules and hating each other than opening up, getting to know each other, and build a new future that benefits us all.

[AntiCoup2K4]

27. You could have confused the little fundie (and probably her parents).....

...with one question:

Jesus is Jewish. Did He go to Hell too?

[saracat]

30. Out of the Mouths of Babes

will come whatever their parents talk about at home.I was shopping the other day and heard a child berate another child that he would "grow up to be as stupid as Bill Clinton".I didn't care if I encountered the parent or not. I jumped in and asked him if he even knew who Bill Clinton was.He said he did and I told him that regardless of what he had been told, that Clinton had accomplished great things and the fact that he came from a poor family made it even more remarkable.I told both boys they would be lucky to be as "smart as Bill Clinton" and they could tell their parents I said so.I also had a friend whose child was exposed to a family that taught their children that liberals and Democrats are murdering babies and that homosexuals go to hell. My friend took the child ,who had been preaching, to her children aside,and said that is NOT what we believe in this house and I can't allow you to talk to my son like that. She followed up with a phone call to the mother and stated that she wouldn't permit such talk in her home. So far as I know ,there were no repercussions, and the kids still play together.At the very least the other child now knows that there is another point of view and not everyone thinks like his family. I suggest that your Mom have a talk with the teacher, and a talk with the parents. But don't let it slide. This is the future generation and they must be made aware of differing points of view or we will be raising bigots.You are right. This is unacceptable.And I was raised as a Catholic.

[m-jean03]

32. Thank Mel Gibson

He advocates this attitude

[IronLionZion]

34. These things are learned my friend

and they can be un-learned. Chances are that girl's mama told her that she can't play with Jews. That sucks. But if you think all or even most Christians feel that way, then slap yourself. Hatred against anybody sucks.

I grew up in an ultra-conservative redneck mountain town that was 99.99% white. So I've dealt with more than my fair share of bigots, but I've found that most people are good.

[AlFrankenFan]

49. hehe

maybe I just ended up living in a place with a lot of bigots, so I've gotten the wrong impression because I've seen nothing better from those kind of people.

[DarkPhenyx]

39. It isn't really anti-Semitic.

It's pretty much anti-everyone who dosen't adhere to their narrow view of religin. They would say I am going to hell as well, and probably in the express handbasket, because I am Pagan. Their sayiong this isn't anti-Semitic. It is, however, the same stupidity.

[liberalhistorian]

41. AFF, PLEASE don't judge all Christians

by the actions of these fundie nutballs who haven't the slightest clue as to what true Christianity is really all about and who are NOT true Christians.

I'm a liberal Christian, and I can tell you that there are many more of us out here than it sometimes seems like. We're busy doing what we're supposed to be doing, which is helping people no matter who they are and trying to get people to treat each other decently and humanely; we should probably be more vocal and pay more attention to things like this so that those who show such hate know they're not following the teachings of Christianity and those who are the victims know that true Christians don't act in such a manner. I'm truly sorry you had to encounter such "Christians", but please know that there are a lot of us Christians who are NOT like that and never will be. And that goes for such treatment against ALL other groups as well, not just Jews.

[AlFrankenFan]

43. It's good to know that there are some good Christians like yourself...

out there. Unfortunately, there are too many Christians who shouldn't be calling themselves just that.

[rasputin1952]

50. Someone who follows the teachings of Jesus...

knows that peace, love and understanding are the result.

There is no hatred, no intolerance and no condemnation; those are human emotions that override the basic teaching of Christianity.

None of us can contain our emotions to the extent where we are completely loving beings, accepting others as we really should. But the idea is to move in that direction, to understand, to listen to comprehend.

There is evil, and for sure, there are people that are out to harm others. These people should be avoided, as they have little or no conscience. Children are not born 'bad', they are taught 'bad' habits, and those become ingrained as the years pass and they are substantiated by the parents and those that the parents frequent.
A child believes his or her parents as the truth tellers, only later with positive social interaction will these notions be dispelled.

This is not an uncommon situation, and every religious, racial and sectarian group has the same people that keep the hate going. If we are lucky, and take the time to show people that we can all get along together, we will have made at least a small step forward.

[BiggJawn]

51. The kid wouldn't play with my kid, either. And she's not Jewish.

Jewish has nothing to do with it. Most of the posters here can't seem to get their brain around that fact. The little girl was NOT being "anti-semitic" as much as she was being "My Pastor says EVERYONE who doesn't go to OUR church is going to Hell, because only OUR Pastor has the True Word of GAWD!"


I'm an Atheist. My daughter is Agnostic. That girl wouldn't play with us either, and I'd bet her parents would turn me in to CPS because EVERYONE knows that without JEEBUS in my life, there's nothing preventing me from poinking my own daughter.

That's how those sick bastards think, and they vote for Bush because Jim Dobson and Pat Robertson and their Pastor who gets the STRAIGHT Skinny from the Great Bearded One Himself tell them too. And they wear their knees out every night praying for boils and hemorroids and AIDS and impotency to be visited on all us "evil" people who don't go to their church or vote for Bush like Pastor says everyone should so Armegeddon can happen and JEEBUS can come back and MAYBE appoint Pastor Mayor of the town and then he can "convert" all the pretty Heathen girls....

Anti-Semitism or hatred of little Muslim girls and their hajibs has nothing to do with it.

[dawn]

52. OMG, that is awful.

That sucks! The parents of that child should be ashamed of themselves! I feel so sorry for both of the girls.

I used to live in laguna niguel...am in irvine now. I felt the same way when I lived there. (I'm not Jewish, but being non-christian, I did feel a bit weird there.)

Funny thing about Irvine, although there's many libertarians and rethugs, it's definitely not as fundie. (In my apartment complex, for example, most of my neighbors are Hindu. :))