I was harassed by an Ebay seller last night!

[Tweek]

He kept calling my home because I forgot to pay for a $2 button! He wouldn't quit! It was for a John Kerry button, and I was going to pay they guy with my parents' checking account, but I forgot about it, so he left me negative feedback and I responded. I told the guy that he was rude to me and left me hateful messages in my email account--which he did.

So he got mad because he got his first negative ever, and he called my home and harassed me. After I had told him numerous times to quit calling, he kept calling. So finally, I got a hold of Ebay, and they're going to deal with him. I even had to call the police because it got so bad. He kept calling me a "Bush lover" because I forgot to pay him. If the guy really knew me, he'd know I love Kerry.

So...the money he spent on long distance for calling me costs far more than the actual stupid button. I'm going straight to the Kerry website to order one. Forget Ebay. :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr:

Edit: I never got the said item. I just simply bid on the item and won. I just simply forgot to pay the man. He didn't need to harass me.

[ohiosmith]

Harassed? You owe the guy money. Doesn't matter how much or

why you didn't pay.

[rucky]

69. "the guy"

LOL.

who could that guy be?

[LARED]

1. Wow

You forgot to pay the guy and he gives you negative feedback and your response is to give him a negative?

Remind not to sell you anything.

[Tweek]

2. Yeah...I forgot to pay him..

but he had NO right to harass me or my family. NO RIGHT AT ALL!

It was an honest-to-God mistake for me to not pay him. He didn't need to harass me. :grr:

The only reason I gave him negative feedback is because he did harass me. Otherwise I wouldn't have done it.

[freetobegay]

4. This is a no brainer in more ways than one!

eom

[LARED]

50. Now I understand

I thought you gave him a negative because you got one for not paying.

The guy had no right to harass you.

Why didn't you just send him the money?

[Qanisqineq]

3. I don't condone forgetting to pay

but I think the previous two posts missed the following sentence:

"left me hateful messages in my email account"

whether you forget to pay or not, there is no reason to send "hateful" email messages to anyone. People should calm the fuck down these days! The seller didn't lose that much on his sale. Believe me, it has happened to me before. :)

[Mr.Green93]

5. so, you never paid?

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tweek]

8. Yeah..big deal. So I forgot to pay.

Give me a negative feedback and get on with your life. You dont' lose money, I don't lose money.

And I swear...if that guy ever calls my house again, he's going to be in for it. I'm through with the hateful emails and the harassment. :grr:

And you call me a "kid?" I'm not kid, mind you. I'm a graduate student in college, getting a degree. I don't appreciate your condescending talk to me.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ohiosmith]

10. THEM?!!!

[Loonman]

7. Don't forget to pay

Mind your business.

Maybe the seller was a little zealous, but when you buy something on eBay, you pay within 3 days.

[Tweek]

9. He isn't getting a dime from me now...

not after that incident. I will NOT tolerate being harassed by a disgruntled seller. I have MY rights!

[Loonman]

11. The seller has rights, too

We're trying to run a civilization, here.

[Donkeyboy75]

13. Yeah, but do you still have the button?

[Tweek]

19. I never got the damn button...

I just bid on it and won. That was all.

Sheesh.

[TX-RAT]

25. Should have said that earlier.

[Donkeyboy75]

33. Oh, you may have wanted to make that more clear.

The guy sounds like a nutjob.

[Tweek]

35. He is a nutjob.

He was threatening me on the phone and everything.

Sorry about the confusion.

[Donkeyboy75]

39. No problem.

I think people were jumping on you because they thought you were complaining that a guy was harassing you because he wasn't paid for something he gave you. It doesn't matter that it was only $2. You'll find people here are very principled, which I like. Welcome to DU, BTW. :)

[Tweek]

42. I feel bad for not paying the man.

It was an honest-to-God mistake on my part to not pay him. I was going to ask my parents to pay for it over the weekend, but I forgot about it because of other more important circumstances.

I just don't understand why he kept calling me and harassing me.

[TX-RAT]

15. You have the right not to pay

They have the right to turn your name into a collection agency. Graduating from college with poor credit is not a good idea. 'Pay the 3 dollars.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

16. On edit - OK, it's not a joke. My bad.

No LOL!

[Mr.Green93]

17. Is it your right to never pay for anything?

[Tweek]

23. It's my right to not pay for it if I didn't receive it.

[Loonman]

26. The seller would not ship until you paid

eBay SOP.

eBay policies are written out very clearly and concisely.

[bearfartinthewoods]

71. you cost him money

he had to pay to list the item. You didn't pay so now he has to either pay the ebay fee or go through the hassle of filing a non paying claim against you.

and in what way was he harrasing you that you dinged his feedback with a negative.

why is it i think it's something outlandish like asking for his money?

[eileen from OH]

12. "He kept calling my home. .. told him numerous times to quit calling"

implies to me that you didn't "forget" to pay. Oh, when you ordered it, maybe. But if he "kept calling" your home and you told him "numerous times" to quit calling, wtf didn't you pay him after you were reminded by one of these "numerous" times?

Sorry, buster, but if you REALLY wanted him to quit calling you would have paid up. He shouldn't HAVE to hound you for the money you owed him and the damn amount doesn't matter. It's YOUR responsibility to pay up.

My biz is part mail order and I can't tell you the number of times I've had to chase down money. And it's usually the small amounts - they figure I won't go after 'em for it, because it IS a small amount and I will give up. They are wrong.

He shouldn't have gotten nasty, but multiply what you did by 100 (which I'm guessing is what he faces, based on my experience) and I understand his frustration. No sympathy here.

eileen from OH

[Tweek]

21. Yes...he kept calling my home last night....

numerous times the SAME NIGHT!

I never got the damn button, so I owe the fucker nothing.

[City Lights]

57. You didn't receive the button because you didn't pay.

Were you expecting to receive the button before paying?

I think this person over-reacted and I think you under-reacted.

When you won the bid you entered into a contract. Technically, you do owe him the money.

You may shrug your shoulders because "it's only $2," however, we've been SCREWED by someone like you who won the bid and then ignored our (polite) attempts to collect the money and ship the item. After doing some digging we found out that this person set up multiple user-names and purchased our item under one of them while selling the same item under another name. He deliberately bid an unreasonable amount of money knowing he'd never pay us. By doing this, any legitimate buyers would look to his item and bid on it because he took ours out of the running.

Did this person politely contact you in an attempt to collect? If so, and you ignored it, you are completely wrong, IMHO. If he jumped down your throat right out of the gate, then that's another story.

Here's a tip for you - do the millions of serious eBay users a favor and don't bid on anything again unless you are willing to send the money if you win the bid.

[bearfartinthewoods]

72. since you said you inteded to pay with your parents checking account

i'm guessing that you were using their ebay account to bid? was the seller calling repeatedly, to try and talk to your parents to get them to pay up. did they know you were using their account, if that's what happened?

[Commendatori]

14. No point in doing low-dollar sales / buys on EBay at all.

I've been burned two or three times by scenarios like this:

I buy paperbacks and if the bill is only two or three bucks, a month will pass and then I'll get a "sorry, I forgot to send it" message. At that point I tell them that if the order were $50, I'd already have my books, they can keep my $2 and shove it up their ass, and don't even bother sending the book because I already found another fucking copy.

The point here is that neither side in a low-dollar sale is likely to be vigilant about it. The difference here, though, is that in the above instances I have a legitimate beef, regardless of your opinion of the way I handled it. No offense, but you brought it on yourself - and making your phone number available was not a good idea, either.

[DUreader]

20. Wow, so many DUer's condoning harassment!

Must be compassionate centrist Dems who have no regard for the law.

Typical American Bullshit attitude whereby a contract violation deserves vigilate, criminal retribution.

Of course it could be DUer's reacting to your low post count and the

fact that there is a Kerry aspect to this. Unfortunately the suspicions are well founded (not for you personally) due to

constant freeper harrassment of DU.

[Tweek]

22. So you're implying that Im' a disruptor?

Are you out of your mind? I'm not here to disrupt. I just simply stated what the item was and that was all.

[DUreader]

28. No, read my reply again.

I said not you personally and was wondering whether the strong reaction against you was due to your low post count.

That happens here a lot because folks react to frequent disruptors (Myself included)

sorrry for the confusion

[Tweek]

30. Oh. Sorry.

Why is it that low post counters get criticized and called disruptors? I just simply wanted to point out that I was harassed over a cheap button. That is all.

Sorry about the confusion...my mind is still clouded by anger.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

37. We get a lot of disruptors and freepers. That, and we're paranoid.

[Loonman]

31. Do you condone financial deliquency?

It's not the price, it's the principle.

Like I said, we're trying to run a civilization, here.

[DUreader]

41. Your principle seems to ok retaliatory criminal behavior...

...as a response to a contract violation which would be non-criminal behavior.

Must be that ingrained US response of overwhelming force to any

percieved threat, especially where the Almighty Dollar is concerned

Some civilization you advocate.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

43. I still don't see what's centrist about it.

Unless you just want to frame situations to fit your conviction that DU is not left-wing enough. So people believe in personal responsibility? As a Socialist, I don't see what the problem with honouring your agreements is.

[DUreader]

45. That was me being nasty

I get that way when people condone criminal behavior as a response to someone who shows a lack of 'personal responsibility'

[Screaming Lord Byron]

46. OK. Fair enough.

[Loonman]

47. Okay, let's all take what we want and never pay

A freakin' free-for-all.

Sounds good.

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DUreader]

67. I won't hit the alert if you won't

Did I go to far?

Your replies to me seemed both accusatory and insulting, i did

feed the flames with that last post.

Truce?

[Kadie]

24. I can understand him calling or emailing you a reminder

but to continue to call you all night is kind of ridiculous.

[Tweek]

27. It is...and it was over a stupid button.

I bid on the damn thing and won the bidding. I never paid. Ok, so big deal. He could've given me a negative feedback and went on his happy little life. But calling my home and bothering my family, after telling him numerous times to stop calling (all in the same night), he kept harassing me. The idiot kept calling...it's his long distance bill, not mine.

All for a cheap button.

People these days...

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TX-RAT]

32. Wouldn't help

Third eye blind.

[Tweek]

34. Act on your advice.

You're judging me as a bad person because I simply made a mistake. I don't understand why.

[TX-RAT]

36. A mistake you could easily correct.

[Tweek]

38. He isn't going to get any of my money...

from the way he treated me last night. I was going to pay him, but he kept harassing me...after I told him to quit. After that whole fiasco, I'm not going to buy from ebay ever again.

It was stupid of me to put my contact info on the net to begin with.

[bearfartinthewoods]

73. not complet;ly no way to fix the ding on the seller's feedback

i'd be plenty pissed if a deadbeat dinged my perfect feedback because i asked him or her to pay me what was owed.

[Mr.Green93]

40. it is not a mistake

it is a reflection of you ATTITUDE

[Kadie]

49. Did I miss something?

[Dookus]

44. For future reference...

uphold your obligations and stuff like this doesn't happen.

[Whitacre D_WI]

48. It's pretty assholish to jump on Tweek about this.

Obviously, many of you fall into two camps:

1) those who do not understand how eBay works
2) those who didn't even bother to read the message.

To the first group:

An eBay bid is a contract to purchase something. This is true, and Tweek violated that. He knows he made a mistake in that part.

That said, the SELLER violated eBay policy: eBay states that the buyer and seller should try to work out any problems with each other BEFORE posting negative feedback. IF the seller had contacted Tweek first, he could have remitted payment, the seller could have sent the button, and everybody would have been happy. This is not what happened.

According to Tweek's post, the seller left negative feedback before making any attempt to remind him. Tweek responded with his own negative feedback (this happens every time someone leaves negative). THEN the seller began harassment (and that's what it is).

The contract was voided (and that, as Tweek freely admits, was his fault). However, he is NOT in default, as he had never received the item. Tweek did violate the terms of a contract. He did NOT steal anything -- of course, if you think he did, you're in the second group.

To the second group -- why are you even posting in this thread? If you can't even bother to read the original post, I don't want to waste my time with you; as you won't read this one, either.


ON EDIT -- I meant to mention that I am aware that Tweek added his "I never got said item" disclaimer in an edit. So, for those of you who posted early, I am not calling you assholish. I would have had the same reaction (though the seller's tactics have crossed the line, regardless). Those of you who posted AFTER Tweek added the disclaimer? Grow up.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

51. Are you saying we should read messages before posting?

What an interesting concept. I must try it sometime.
:evilgrin:

[redqueen]

52. What you said

Some of these responses are unbeLIEVEable!

[Tweek]

53. Thanks Whitacre D_WI.

I really do feel bad for not paying the man. I totally forgot about bidding on the item. And yes, I do take responsibility for that. I had a contract with the man and I broke it. I admit that. In that sense, I am an asshole.

But...the guy did harass me, even after I told him to stop. That goes against Ebay policy like you had stated. I know I made a mistake, and I feel bad about it, but he didn't need to keep calling me and harassing me about it. He could've easily just given me negative feedback and that was it.

Mistakes do happen, and it happens to every one of us. To jump all over me about it is, in itself, hypocritical. No one is perfect. Mistakes happen. No need to be uncivil to each other about it, right?

Thanks.

[Kadie]

55. Thank You

I was really thinking I must have missed something. I was in a middle of a post trying to figure this whole thing out when my son deleted everything.

I was shocked at some of the responses I was reading.

As I was trying to state in my post, I have forgotten much more serious things and have never had that kind of treatment.

[amazona]

54. I'm an ebay seller and this seller is just out of line

C'mon, the buyer didn't pay for a $2 item, you're out 35 cents for the listing fee. It's clear the seller did go through the process of leaving negative feedback and getting his final value fee back (which would have been, what, all of five cents anyway) so that's what we're talking about this buyer cost this seller. 35 cents. Yes, it's annoying when people don't pay. Yes, if a hundred people didn't pay, it would start to amount to real money, and you could no longer sell those kinds of items any more. But most times, for most items, especially if they are well-priced, buyers DO pay. When they don't pay, you may email them a time or two, then file a non-paying bidder report so that ebay contacts them, then report back to ebay if they still don't pay.

It is counter-productive to throw away time and energy chasing people down over $2 items. Encountering the occasional deadbeat is the cost of doing business which needs to be incorporated in your pricing. If instead you let your ego get involved, and you have to score on EVERY sale, you spend too much time chasing what isn't worth chasing.

This seller lost a little money, so now he's going to throw away a lot of time and goodwill too? Doesn't make good business sense.

I have to agree with the buyer. The seller is not making rational decisions. Harassment is not a good business decision.

And it's also against the law. You are allowed to phone someone who owes you money ONCE a day before 8 P.M. in the evening their time -- not multiple times in a single evening. This buyer could have reported the seller to the telephone company and gotten him warned or even gotten his service disconnected.

I hope you will return to Ebay when you have your checking account situation sorted out. Believe me, most sellers are courteous. Yes, we want and expect to get paid, but we are not willing to become psychotic about it.

Just my humble perspective. I'm not a big-time seller, guestimate I've sold around $10,000 worth over the last four years or so. I've had any number of people who didn't pay. If I invested my energy in protecting myself against non-payers, such as only accepting Paypal, I would have cost myself much more in additional Paypal fees than I have lost in listing fees to nonpayers. Remember, when a buyer doesn't pay, you still have the item. If it's well-priced, it will sell another time -- and sometimes for more money.

[Melsky]

58. Sellers can now have the listing fee refunded

it used to be they just refunded the final value fee, but last time they raised their fees, they also changed it so you get both fees back if you file a non paying bidder report.

[amazona]

64. excellent!

I hadn't had an opportunity to list since they raised the fees in February so that is wonderful news. I hope to start selling again in the second half of the year, and I'm sure I'll be most appreciative of this feature.

[Maine-i-acs]

59. Your seller posted at DU buddy ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=1067296#1067396

[Whitacre D_WI]

60. Erm. That was a parody thread.

[Maine-i-acs]

62. Call me a sucker ...

How should I have known?

[Whitacre D_WI]

63. Don't worry about it.

FYI, parody threads are like cancer here (and I spread more than my share, trust me!)

The only thing to do is make sure you read them all -- if two threads look similar, one of them is funning with the other.

[ohiosmith]

65. Hey man, If I had a nickle for every time I've been sucked in!

[Tweek]

68. I didn't find your parody thread humorous.

In fact, I found it to be poor taste. Why did you have to mock me like that?

[ohiosmith]

70. I'm sorry you were not amused.

[Misunderestimator]

75. Because it was amusing

You have to learn to laugh at yourself. You started this thread with the position that you did nothing wrong and that the harassment (however over the top) was unprovoked. Well, it wasn't, as many posters have pointed out. And even though I hate it when people say this to me... Lighten up! :)

[ohiosmith]

76. Thank you. Apparently the mod didn't think it was funny either.

It was locked.

[VOX]

66. It's like not paying parking tickets, then freaking when you get towed...

Granted, this guy was way out of line, but the whole episode could have been avoided if you had fulfilled your responsibility -- your eBay bid is your word that you are good for the payment.

[Westegg]

74. Wow! We're damn passionate about Ebay on DU, no?

My feeling is: You gotta follow the Ebay rules, as clearly stated, or else don't bid/buy. These rules are fairly simple and, in my opinion, quite fair. You win? Then you're morally (but not legally) obligated to pay. If you don't pay, then the seller can post negative feedback which will cause you problems when you bid on stuff in the future. That's fair! Just like, if you win and send payment and don't get an item, you can send negative feedback re: the seller. And, while I've never experienced this situation (after hundred of Ebay purchases), maybe you also have some legal right to get your money back. I just don't know, though I would kinda hope so! Bidness is bidness.

The phone call harrassments you mentioned? That's wrong too. Way wrong. And maybe you have some legal recourse there. Talk to a lawyer. But is it worth it over a $2 item?