Further pet peevage: "myriad" or "a myriad of"?

[Bossy Monkey]

Or if you prefer: Myriad: adjective or noun?

[southpaw]

1. Pet Peeve!!!

Subject/Verb Disagreement!

eg. "There IS a myriad..."

should be: "There ARE a myriad..."

B.A. in English, here. If you're gonna be persnickety, at least do so using proper grammar.

That said, I most often opt for "buttload"

[Philostopher]

2. I don't know about that.

I was taught that any word that represents a group is considered singular in American English. The British, and probably some Canadians, are more flexible on that (or do it completely differently -- I only know British grammar from observation). What I mean by this is that when we refer to a rock band, the word 'band' is a singular noun in American English. The British usually treat it as a plural noun. 'The band is' vs. 'the band are.' Myriad, when used as you refer, would ostensibly be a single subset of all, so wouldn't it be 'there is a myriad' just as it would be 'there is a group waiting outside' or 'the team is ready to play'?

But then, the context in which I learned the word 'myriad' wasn't as a noun, but as a modifier (adjective) -- 'there are myriad ways' -- anyway, so it's a moot point as far as myriad goes ...

[southpaw]

4. Read it...

It's awkward and it's mother dresses it funny.

Nice post, BTW... Pretentious Diction: look it up.

[Philostopher]

7. Eh -- I'm a writer, and a clerical worker.

When I start writing about English, I'm careful to do it well ... mostly because while you may think it looks pretentious, it's a sillier thing to be pedantic and grammatically incorrect. Kinda' takes the bang out of what you're saying, if you're waxing pedantic badly...

[Bossy Monkey]

3. Congratulations on your degree

myriad (as a noun) = a large number. Could take either a singular or a plural verb. Am. Heritage Collegiate Dictionary here: http://www.bartleby.com/61/12/M0511200.html

[southpaw]

5. Thanks!

My orignal post was intended to be humorous in an ironic sort of way (after boasting of an EH degree and picking grammatical nits, I end by pledging my allegiance to "Buttloads"...)

Sorry my intent was not clear... perhaps I should have used a goofy looking smiley :silly:

[RebelOne]

6. This from the grammar book "Woe Is I" by Patricia T. O'Connor

myriad: It originally meant "ten thousand," but myriad now means "numerous" or "a great number of." (Lulu has myriad freckles.) Avoid "myriads" or "a myriad of."

[Qutzupalotl]

10. American Heritage says either is okay:

even uses what O'Connor says to avoid in their definition examples:

myr-i-ad adj.
1. Constituting a very large, indefinite number; innumerable: the myriad fish in the ocean.
2. Composed of numerous diverse elements or facets: the myriad life of the metropolis.

—myr-i-ad n.
1. A vast number: the myriads of bees in the hive.
2. Archaic. Ten thousand.


USAGE NOTE: Throughout most of its history in English myriad was used as a noun, as in a myriad of men. In the 19th century it began to be used as an adjective, as in myriad men; this usage became so well entrenched that many people came to consider it as the only correct possibility. In fact, both uses have not only ample precedent in English but also etymological justification from Greek, inasmuch as the Greek word murias from which myriad derives could be used as either a noun or an adjective. Both uses may be considered equally acceptable, as in Samuel Taylor Coleridge's “Myriad myriads of lives.”

[soothsayer]

8. Hey! This is the fun kind of stuff editors chat up at cocktail parties

seriously...!

[afraid_of_the_dark]

9. Tee hee... you said "buttloads"

My adolescent alter ego couldn't resist choosing that option.

C'mon, gimme a break - it's FRIDAY! :)

[markses]

11. As an experience college-level teacher of basic and advanced composition

at a major research university (in another, grad-schoolish life), I can assure everybody that both "myriad" and "plethora" are typically used by a very special class of writer. The characteristics of the class are as follows:

a) These writers were told (falsely, it is important to note) that they were "good writers" by their high school English teachers; they therefore deserve an "A" at the outset of the class, since their inflated estimation of their writing abilities at a lower level of instruction indicates the final grade that they should inherit as a birthright at the more advanced level, if you follow the logic of this move....(Be aware that 1) you'll be informed of this logic during office hours after each of their first three papers are returned with grades of B- or less and 2) as these conferences progress, the class of those who have told the writer that he or she is a "good writer" will expand from the high school English teacher to the universal "everybody," including the student's current roommate, an apparent authority on the subject).

b) These writers are victims of high school English teachers who - from all appearances - consider the quantity of thesaurus references the sole criterion for judging writing; their writing is therefore good if, instead of stating "I ate a power bar before I went to the gym," it states, rather, "I hungrily consumed a oblong food source designed for the repletion and invigoration of my every cell just prior to my thrice-weekly visit to the place of bodily exercise." (We will subsequently, of course, learn that they've "accomplished" a "plethora of repetitious liftings of weight through the strenuous usage of the pectoral muscles"...).

c) These writers have a great deal of promise, and can even become great writers when they stop trying to sound smart and start thinking in terms of their purpose, their audience, their subject matter, and the situation that calls on them to write. They must first be disabused of the laughable notion that using "myriad" or "plethora" in a sentence makes you sound smart, rather than severely hampering the effectiveness of your prose and your credibility as a writer in most situations.

This class of writers is as old as training in writing itself, as we learn from the derision Hermagoras, Cicero, Quinitilian and countless others heap upon what they call the "frigid" style (using a grand style for a less-than-grand subject matter and occasion). I'll also assure you that anyone using either "myriad" or "plethora" in any paper in any of my classes was required to write me a five-hundred word explanation for why it is the most appropriate word to use in that particular situation. Grease one. ;-)

[NewHampshireDem]

12. Wow ... what you must think of me ...

as I use "myriad" in my everyday speech.

BTW, I also teach high school English--but please note that my classroom contains not a single thesaurus.

Oh, is it necessary to post one's academic credentials when weighing in on this discussion? If so, I'll happily amend add them to my post.

[markses]

13. It was kinda like a joke post

so don't take it personally.

That said, I don't think myriad and plethora are appropriate for all occasions, and I do think word choice should be determined by the aim, audience and context of a piece of writing or utterance. Can myriad and plethora be used to good effect? Sure. Are they often used because the user thinks they "sound smart" rather than strategically given the constraints and possibilities of a situation? Yup. So, that's the beef.

As for credentials, the joke of the students who overuse "myriad" and "plethora" doesn't really make sense unless I set up that I was a teacher, so I wasn't really pulling rank as much as I was setting up the situation. But again, no harm intended. I'll qualify here by saying that I have undying respect for the work done by our high school English teachers. I am not trained to deal with what they deal with, nor are they trained to do the kind of work that we did in college composition. That doesn't mean that one is better than the other (no more than an ophthamologist is better than a radiologist, or vice versa), just different. So, as for what I think of you, I think you probably do fabulous work in a difficult job.

[NewHampshireDem]

15. Sorry ...

My post, too, was intended in a mock-serious tone. It's always funny when people whip out the degrees to talk about matters of grammar and language--especially since they feel no such need when they opine about more important or life-and-death matters.

I knew that you weren't catagorically defaming all English teachers. In fact, I share your frustration, since I end up having to break kids of the very same bad habits.

I teach my kids Twain's advice to never write "metropolis" when "city" will earn them the same nickel. Of course, I have to balance that with my own use of--slightly--inflated language, since most of them are exposed to "buttload" at home, on TV, and elsewhere and I'd like them to know that it is just fine to sound intelligent through the precise use of language.

I'd just as quickly slam a kid for throwing in a gratuitous "myriad" as for dropping the f-bomb. :0

Thank you for the kudos; I do appreciate them. :toast:

[markses]

16. Yup

Just wanna be clear that I didn't mention a degree at all. Just a relevant job.

[jpgray]

14. Amen

People often aspire to a level of writing they've experienced, but haven't understood. For example someone can take a look at Shakespeare, and believe that inversion and an archaic vocabulary were his keys to success, when a brilliant imagination and skillful use of figurative language were what really set him apart from his peers. Reading Pericles can be a bit of a shock that way. :D

(and yes, everybody does it--you have to take risks and look like a fool if you're going to progress any)