I just lost my temper on another post....

[Red State Rebel]

So, if I disappear from here soon, it's been fun!

[King Of Paperboys]

1. Link, please.

eom

[Red State Rebel]

3. Link.....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x624773

[King Of Paperboys]

5. Thanks for the link.

That was a mild post. You are wrong in your doctrine, but you were not abusive.

Speak freely!

[gristy]

8. Hmmm, I saw your post

So, to take your logic a bit further, would you promote arresting, locking up, and torturing all the citizens of a city in Iraq, or Indonesia, or, say, California, because you might get information that might save the life of an American? To achieve this, how will you differentiate between "good" information and "bad" information? How do you justify the fact that you would be violating the rights of so many people in said hypothetical city? The rights of doctors, scientists, teachers, the unemployed, homeless people, petty criminals, etc., etc?

[gristy]

2. Just edit your post. Clear out all the text.

Easy.

[Red State Rebel]

4. That would be easy if I didn't mean it......

If they want to ban me for my own honest opinion, then I guess I don't belong here.

[NorthernSpy]

13. well, maybe you don't...

... after all, when one poster remarked on the necessity of following the Geneva Conventions -- regardless of what others do -- and on the need to 'come to court with clean hands', so to speak:

I have no expectation that Al Qaeda would ever abide by the rules of the Geneva Convention, regardless of what the US does, but we forfeit any claim to sympathy from other countries when we authorize torture at prisons


Your reply was an uncivil, utterly unfounded (not to mention utterly vicious)accusation:

You will side with people who slit the throats of innocent Americans and complain that a naked man had a dog barking at him.



So, when you say:

If they want to ban me for my own honest opinion, then I guess I don't belong here.

Then I've gotta say that a false accusation is not an "honest opinion" (however disgusting and beneath contempt ones "honest opinion" might be), and that such incivility really ought not to be tolerated anywhere.


Mary

[Misunderestimator]

6. Good advice. n/t

[m-jean03]

7. What you said won't get you banned.

You didn't attack anyone. You expressed a legitimate opinion.

[Endangered Specie]

11. Listen to M-Jean

(she oughta know ;) :hi: )

[bahrbearian]

9. Torture begets more Torture .

Lets get some dignity back to Protect our Troops and Citizens, selling arms to the Taliban and Saddam is the cause, lets find a higher Ground. Torture is beneath us.

[madrchsod]

10. i think joe biden said it best this last week-

other nations will do the same to our soldiers-we can`t take the moral ground. this is what we as a nation have sank to..god only knows what will happen to us if bush gets elected..

[Pithlet]

12. It wasn't that bad

I don't agree with what you said. But, I don't think it's anything to ban you for. I've lost my temper much worse than that on DU. It happens.

[LibertyorDeath]

14. SaidFred before you pick up that leash

First of all it is not al-Qaida members being Tortured or tormented by barking dogs. It is mostly innocent Iraqi civilians.




"Torture is only the tip of the iceberg," said Roger Normand, an international lawyer who directs the Center. "From unlawful killings, mass arrests, and collective punishment to outright theft and pillage, the U.S. is violating almost every law intended to protect civilians living under foreign military occupation."
MORE http://www.commondreams.org/news2004/0609-06.htm

http://www.fantompowa.net/Flame/cia_iraq.htm

http://www.google.ca/search?q=cia+helped+bring+saddam+to+power&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

American backed sanction killed Hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children

UNICEF estimated that the sanctions against Iraq
resulted in the deaths of 500,000 Iraqi children under
the age of 5. In May 1996 "60 Minutes" correspondent
Lesley Stahl asked Madeleine Albright, US Ambassador
to the UN: "We have heard that half a million children
have died . I mean, that is
more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know,
is the price worth it?"

Albright responded: "I think that is a very hard
choice, but the price, we think, the price is worth
it."
http://thunderbay.indymedia.org/news/2004/04/13623_comment.php
http://www.veteransforpeace.org/VetsDemanEndIraqSanc.htm

http://www.worldmessenger.20m.com/iraq.html

The Torture of Iraqi prisoners the vast majority of whom are innocent civilians is not done by a few bad apples

IT IS STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURE.
New Report Documents Extensive U.S. War Crimes In Iraq http://www.commondreams.org/news2004/0609-06.htm
NEW YORK - June 9 - The Bush Administration is committing war crimes and other serious violations of international law in Iraq as a matter of routine policy, according to a report released today by the Center for Economic and Social Rights. The report, "Beyond Torture: U.S. Violations of Occupation Law in Iraq," documents ten categories of war crimes and rights violations regularly committed by U.S. forces. It can be accessed at http://www.cesr.org/beyondtorture.pdf.

Tout torture, get promoted

Robert Scheer - Creators Syndicate

06.15.04 - What a revelation to learn that the Justice Department lawyer who wrote the infamous memo in effect defending torture is now a U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals judge. It tells you all you need to know about the sort of conservative to whom George W. Bush is turning in his attempt to pack the federal courts.
http://www.workingforchange.com/printitem.cfm?itemid=17123


During 12 years in the US Marines, including three years putting new recruits through boot camp, Staff Sergeant Jimmy Massey hardly questioned his role. But what he saw in Iraq changed that.

"In a month and a half my platoon and I killed more than 30 civilians," Mr Massey said. He saw bodies being desecrated and robbed, and wounded civilians being dumped by the roadside without medical treatment. After he told his commanding officer that he felt "we were committing genocide", he was called a "wimp".
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=523992

As Kafkaesque and Orwellian as this fascist inquisition tainted oil war seems, there is a greater genocide far worse than torture and death.
It is so heinous that focusing on torture, rape and murder is a diversion that helps cloak the greater crime.

It is the crime of killing Iraqi children for the next thousands of years. The amount of radioactive waste and depleted uranium that has been spread throughout the country is staggering. One may hear from technocrats that "depleted" uranium is no hazard although they would not want it in their backyard. Nothing is further from the truth. The killing power is spread over centuries and millenia. In a sandy dusty environment the toxins will be uncovered time and again.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1791993&mesg_id=1791993