King Arthur : Can you deal with a Xenafied Guinevere?

[Khephra]

Ok, I'm all for updating material, but have you seen the previews of the new "King Arthur"? Guinevere is now a kick ass "Warrior Queen".

Now I'm all for updating material, but is there ANY basis for Guinevere being a "Warrior Queen" who fights next to Arthur?

(Don't see this as being sexist...it is more about being true to the source material. I've read a lot of the original Arthur literature and I don't seem to remember Guinevere in combat next to Arthur.

[GOPisEvil]

1. I haven't read EVERY piece of Arhturian literature out there...

...but nothing I have read indicates Guinevere is any kind of warrior.

But, if they want to play with the story a bit to modernize it, I'll live.

[Khephra]

3. I'll live with it too

But Guinevere has never seemed like she needed updating to me.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

2. You'd have thought they'd have learned after the whole Arwen kerfuffle.

[Fenris]

6. I like to call the scenes between Aragorn and Arwen "bathroom breaks"

[Screaming Lord Byron]

10. So...you missed the scene where Arwen pulls her skin off

to reveal that she is a many-headed mer-monster?

[Fenris]

11. I had a large Coke.

I must have missed that scene.

[jpgray]

17. Don't worry--the monster still couldn't act (nt)

[stellanoir]

4. would rather see Morgaine redeemed. . .

a la "Mists of Avalon"

[Khephra]

7. Same here.

I'd buy them making her more "witchy", but Zenaish? Nah. It doesn't fit the character.

[flamingyouth]

8. Me too!

I've just been rereading that book - one of my all-time favorites.

[LynzM]

15. Just read it for the first time this year

And I have to say, WOW. It's on my to-reread list, for sure!

[flamingyouth]

16. There are two good prequels

The Forest House and Lady of Avalon. Both are good - you should check it out!

[LynzM]

37. Cool, will do.

I'm always looking for good book recommendations!

[Fenris]

5. I LOVE how their bandying about that "based on a true story" crap

Okay, this portrayal of Arthur is slightly more accurate than, say "First Knight", in that it revolves around a Roman Arthur, but from the previews still seems to draw from the legends codified by Mallory.

[Khephra]

9. I missed the "Based on a true story" line

Hehehehehe...

I don't think there is a single reputable historian who would make that claim.

[supernova]

12. "Based on a true story?"

:wtf:

Arthurian Legands are great fun, but no one's ever claimed they were true.

[Fenris]

13. Here's the closest one can get:

http://www.britannia.com/history/geofmon.html

Geoffrey of Monmouth. And that ain't sayin' much.

[supernova]

21. Yes, Geoffrey mentions

a mysterious book that purported to give a great narrative of the History of Britian. He doesn't mention the title, and no trace of a book like that has ever been found.

Riiiight.

[Nadienne]

38. Based on a true story?

I thought it was "the story on which the legends are based"...

[jpgray]

14. I miss the days of strong characters not needing external weaponry

Or action scenes.

[Khephra]

18. From the previews I've seen

It seems that her main characteristic is being able to out-shoot Arthur in combat with a bow.

Yeah, that's the Guinevere I remember.

[jpgray]

19. Hey remember that big swordfight between Kate Hepburn and Pete O'Toole?

Doing all those backflips in that dress must have been hard.

[electricmonk]

20. Keira Knightley though

I'll forgive any liberties they take with the story with her in it, Hell thay can give her an AK47 and a Wonder Woman truth belt and I'll still go.:evilgrin:

[Bombtrack]

22. Uh, Kiera knightly is hot, Xena looks like a man

I'm ready for Kiera Knightly as Guenevere, not some thick burly he-female.

Xenafied is not the word. It's not like Xena is the original warrior chick. They did have ancient gods who were warrior chicks

[Lestat]

23. Amen to that!

She's HOT!

[Khephra]

24. No shit

But since when has Guenevere ever been in that class? I'm all for empowering women roles in fantasy (I'm a big Zena/Buffy fan), but screwing with source material in a major way will get any fan of any specific genre/work outraged.

Lets say we did the opposite and made Arthur a an ineffectual fighter who couldn't hold a sword? Guenevere has never (to my knowledge) been shown as fighting at Arthur's side in battle. That's just a little too "off" of the mythos for me.

[Bombtrack]

25. But the whole point of this new King Arthur movie is to take a new look

and sort of remake the story. They basically have the view going in that there have been plenty of remakes that did care about the original source material, and in this one they make no apologies about changing it around, and I believe their premise is to reimagine the story as it might have actually happened, sort of like Troy, I.E. make it more enjoyable for people into historical stuff or who would like to imagine it could have happened. So I assume they're going to sort of not have actual magic happen, and Merlin will be more of a wiseman/holy man type of person etc. And having Guenevere as a non damsel in destress is just one way of making the story more original and therefor more interesting for an audience that has likely seen the story told before.

I am a person who can get annoyed when people take too many liberties on source material I care about. I was a big fan of the X-Men comic book canon growing up, and the way the movies really screwed around with alot annoyed the hell out of me(not that I don't love the movies anyway), but the thing with that is, those are the only movies we've gotten. With King Arthur, you've already had a bazillion movies and what not that tried to stay loyal to the books. And unlike X-Men or Spiderman or something, there isn't a whole pop-culture fanbase out there for King Arthur. I mean, I don't think there is. Have you ever run into some dude with a Sir Lancelot T-shirt on?

[Khephra]

27. X-Men fan here too

I understand what you're saying, but...

I dunno...I guess it comes from being raised on "Le Morte De Arthur" and "The Once and the Future King". Much of the whole Arthurian saga revolves around "Damsels in distress".

[joeybee12]

26. Typical Hollywood Bullcrap penned by Imbecilic Overpaid Twits

True, the story itself is a myth, but since it's so well-known (I would think) taking such liberties would seem to be that these people never read any of the tales. And, quite frankly, it would be historically inaccurate to portray any women of this time period in that way.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

28. Two words:

Jerry Bruckheimer.

He produces large amounts of testosterone-laden Hollywood shit.

When I saw the trailer last night, I was sitting there with my mouth open going "WTF?!?!?!?!"

And then I saw it:

"A Jerry Bruckheimer Film" (aka. a H.D.N.T.S.M.O.T.B.P.O.C. film)


I mean, what else do you need to know? :shrug:


Hell

(Aka. "Hell Doesn't Need to Spend Her Money On This Bloated Piece Of Crap.")

[niceperson]

29. I don't know about source material...

There probably isn't any proof, but weren't british and celtic women said to be bold and aggresive fighters ? (at least compared to roman women)

[Khephra]

30. I'm not sure about the British

But the Celts had warrior women at various times.

From what I understand, this is more a Romanish take on Arthur, so I'm not quite sure.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

31. Bit of Boudicca in there perhaps?

[Khephra]

32. That's what I think they're going for

It could be good, but, as mentioned above, it's Bruckheimer. Every line out of her mouth seemed horribly out-of-time. It's like they took a character out of "Sex in the City" and put her next to Arthur. It was just like fingers across a chalk board when I heard it.

[Bombtrack]

33. Go to IMDB for some info on what they're doing with the story

they use the word "demystified"

They are trying to place it in a historical context to make it more imaginable and cool to people who like that. Troy sort of did the same thing.

And to people who are saying bruckheimer is doing this for "testosterone" reasons, that's kind of dumb. Having a woman fight with a bow amd arrow instead of being a damsel in distress the whole time is what anti-feminist people hate. Breaking down a traditional gender role of warrior. And particularly UNLIKE Xena that aggressiveness and feistyness can be done by sexy feminine characters and therfor those traits aren't neccessarilly feminine or masculine.

[Khephra]

34. I'm sorry to disagree

I'd be as upset if they tried to make a film with Arthur being unable to to use a sword, which is as radical of a switch as what they'e seeming to do with Guinevere.

Like I said, raised on "Le Morte". It's strictly a source material issue.

[Bombtrack]

35. But whatever you're refurring to might be less source material than

what they are basing it on, because It's been argued whether King Arthur was actually a real person and they are basing this movie on what they think the fantasy liturature was based on.

[Thew]

36. I know it's a stretch...

...but I recall one Arthur book I read ('Arther Rex'?) where Guinevere became the head of an order of female knights following Arthur's death. Only mentioned briefly in the epilogue.

[CanuckAmok]

39. This reminds me of the Simpsons' "Poke of Zorro"...

Bart and Lisa are watching "Poke of Zorro", where Zorro beats the Scarlet Pimpernel and wins King Arthur's crown...

Lisa: "This movie has no basis in fact!"

Bart: "Shhhh! Here come the ninjas!"