I just read the Iliad, and I don't get something...

[LostInAnomie]

Why do people consider him such a great character? Every heroic thing he did through the direct help of the gods. He had almost no mercy on anyone. When the gods didn't directly protect him he either gets his ass beat by Ajax, or killed by Achilles. Whats the deal?

On edit: Hector is the Character I am referring to.

[4_Legs_Good]

1. Who?

It's been a long time since I read it. I prefered the Odyssey.

I did like the part where Brad Pitt killed Boromir, though. No wait...

:)

david

[Sequoia]

2. Which character?

Funny you should bring that up. I'm waiting for that book at the library and went there yesterday to see why it hadn't come in yet and he told me the people who checked it at hadn't turned them in yet so maybe you're the one I'm waiting on!! Just kidding.

I've been very interested in this lately but if you do a web check you can find a bunch of tips and hints on the subject and even Cliff Notes. The Iliad picks up 10 years into the battle but there was a ton of stuff that happened before that and lots afterwards too.

[Az]

3. The support of the gods is what made heroes

A hero was someone that had the gods on their side. It is not about personal strength. It is about the connections with the powers.

The single biggest stress the human race carries with it is uncertainty caused by our questing brain. Gods and powers offer certainty to counter this stress. Those who have the gods on their side are heroes because they are on a certain path. They know what has to be done to accomplish their goals.

[4_Legs_Good]

4. Those who defy the gods and survive are also often heroes, no?

Odysseus, for example. He cursed Poseidon and wandered about the Mediterranean for 10 years, but in the end he won - of course with help from other gods...

david

[Az]

9. But he was supported by other gods

The Greek mythes were about gods in conflict representing human nature in conflict. No one confronted the gods without other gods supporting them. The greek mythologies are really about our natures. And as such you cannot have a story about our nature without some aspect of that nature playing a prominent roll.

[4_Legs_Good]

11. That's a pretty cool interpretation!

I think that there's also a lot of "virtue" (in answer to the original question again) in allowing yourself to be led by the gods. Your fealty pays off, as well as your loyalty.

Though, of course, who your pop was really counts for all.

david

[MikeG]

5. You need to see the miniseries "Helen of Troy"

Hector was a master swordfighter in that version.
Their Helen was also much hotter.

[LostInAnomie]

7. I saw it...

They made Paris courageous which is complete horse shit. Paris never killed anyone from close range, almost always with an arrow. He hid every time he had to fight anyone. And, while every other Trojan was fighting he was busy giving Helen the meat.

But yes, Helen was awesome in the miniseries.

[Snow]

13. So what did you think of Big Ajax's brother?

What was his name? Terseus or something like that....who hunkered down behind Big Ajax's apparently huge shield from whence he zinged arrows out at all & sundry.

[LostInAnomie]

15. I think Ajax had two brothers ( I could be wrong )

One was referred to as little (but quick) Ajax, and Terseus. I wasn't a big fan of any of the archers but at least Terseus wasn't a cocky little shit like Paris. Paris hid behind a tent (or something) and shot Diomedes in the foot, and then taunted him. I don't think Terseus was protected by the gods either.

I hated Paris.

[djeseru]

6. Shhhh! Don't ruin...

... the ending for me! ;-)

I bought a copy of The Iliad myself when I picked up Bill Clinton's book - seemed more interesting than Bill at the moment, so I've started reading it first. Finished the intro today...

[LostInAnomie]

8. I think I am going to go back and buy...

... the Odyssey, and The Aeneid soon.

[4_Legs_Good]

10. The Aeneid is by Virgil, right?

I think that's right. I've never read it. /shame /shame I even forget what it's about!

The Odyssey is great fun. There are a lot of references made in modern day life that originate from it.

Have fun!

david

[djeseru]

12. Thinking about those myself.

I like these newer translations by Robert Fagles. I'd like to pick up The Oresteia as well, just to find out what really happened between Clytemnestra and Agamemnon...

[Snow]

14. Yes! Fagles is terrific.......

I'm wishing he'd do the Aeneid as well...