need advice - friend may have been date raped

[sniffa]

one of my bestest friends went out on a date with a guy she met onLine. she's been singLe for a whiLe now and was basicaLLy gonna get Lucky after their date. she had a few drinks but apparentLy much Less than she normaLLy wouLd drink and she bLacked out for a Long time.

when she woke up she was groggy, her ass hurt and there was bLood on her dress.. but they were cuddLing. she's not sure she was raped since she doesn't remember (and she was pretty sure she was gonna have sex with him - and she doesn't do anaL). she's not sure if he penetrated any other part - the ass was the onLy 'reminder'.

i'm so f'n upset. she said she knows she was taken avantage of. she's not sure if she was drugged. she doesn't think it's rape at the moment since she can't remember. she doesn't want to make a big deaL about it other than to caLL him and teLL him off.

i'm too upset to teLL her anything other than caLL the poLice. at the minimum, she shouLd caLL a suport Line but i don't think she'LL do anything. i'm hoping she's just in deniaL and naiLs this pig.

what shouLd i do? sit here and do nothing? caLL a support Line myseLf? she aLready showered - i'm not famiLiar with rape kits, do they work after she's showered? shouLd she keep the dress since it's stained and hopefuLLy has evidence?

i just need advice, reassurance, or something. :(

[Bunny]

1. She was probably drugged.

She needs to talk to a crisis line for further instructions. Sounds like a date rate scenario. The crisis line people can help you, even if she doesn't want to call. They can give you ideas for how to help her. If she starts to feel better, she may want to report this to the police. Even if it is too late to prosecute him, he and the cops need to know that it's on record. This could prevent future victims. I am so sorry for you and your friend.

[johnnie]

2. I know a woman this happened to

Someone slipped her a mickey in Chicago. I would hope she follows up on this and hopefully prevent it from happening again to someone else. This makes me ill.

[Mountainman]

3. I think a doctor could answer her questions if she has them

[MissMillie]

4. She probably doesn't have much of a legal case

unless of course she can get some blood work done to see if she had been drugged.

More than anything, she should get some psychological help, or emotional support from people who are experienced with this sort of thing.

It'd be nice if she could stop the guy from raping again, through legal action, but that's not the priority. The priority is her well being. Make sure she gets professional help. Right away.

[achtung_circus]

5. Get her to a doctor or hospital

before evidence deteriorates or disappears. When it comes to evidence it's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

[Padraig18]

6. She needs to go to the hospital and contact the police.

She needs to be examined for signs of rape, tested for the presence of GHB and STD's. If she was indeed raped, you can rest assured that this is not the 1st time the guy has done this. Unless and until he is stopped, he will do it again.

Do whatever you have to to support her, but help her to understand that she has done nothing worng and that she is the victim here, and that she must not persist in her denial; the man who did this to her must be punished.

[sniffa]

10. how Long do roofies Last in your system?

this was saturday night.

thank you everyone for your advice and support. this is shitty.
i'm tempted to take matters into my own hands in terms of vengence. :(

[asthmaticeog]

14. DON'T GO AFTER THE GUY.

Think about it - he's fucking SCUM. Should you go to jail over someone like that? Fuck, no, sniffa.

[sniffa]

15. i know

besides i'm a vioLent pacifist - i haven't resorted to vioLence in 11 years.

[asthmaticeog]

17. I know what you mean.

I haven't used my fists or thrown anything at someone in over a decade and a half -- but still, I'm not above being provoked. That "vengeance" talk spooked me, sorry if my response was overboard.

[DrWeird]

23. Get your friend to a hospital right now.

If it was rohypnol, the common "date rape drug", there should be a detectable and incriminating level still in her system.

Don't wait any longer.

[gmoney]

7. Get him off the street

Even if she was intending to sleep with him, if she was drugged, that means this guy could be doing this ALL the time. And the backdoor thing has definite health consequences, especially if she's bleeding (I'll bet he didn't bother to use a condom in this instance). Even if she can't get him for rape (if the rape kit is no good), she can probably file charges on battery or other charges for the drugging and violations.

Get her to call the cops or the women's hotline...

[Spinzonner]

8. Call the support line yourself

they will know more about laws and scientific medical issues and give advice on how to deal with her and how she should proceed.

Unless she has douched or used an enema to cleans internally, it seems unlikely that a mere show would wash away semen except from external skin surfaces but if a condom was used there might not be any.

Blood evedence is also possibility since it is not 100% sure that all blood was hers.

She should not ignore this in any case since it is possible she could be infected with an STD regardless of her intention to followup criminally.

[The Sushi Bandit]

9. It is "Her" issue to deal with.. you cant fix or change her!

sorry but htat is the best advice i can give on this.

[asthmaticeog]

11. Damn, that's a tricky situation.

First and foremost, your friend has my deepst sympathy, and I'd like to take a shovel to her date's face.

As for what she can do, I don't think rape kits work after showering. I could be wrong.

The other thing is, did she tell you she expected to get lucky after this date? Did she tell that to anyone else? That kind of thing can seriously harm any legal case or charges she may try to bring against the scumbag, and any defense lawyer will seize on that kind of info to A) strongly insinuate that she's a slut who was looking for it and B) make her feel lower than shit in court. She might be wise not to want to go through that.

On the other hand, if she can medically prove she'd been drugged, that's a whole other charge. If she seeks medical attention for the bleeding, a drug test is a good idea.

Basically, if she doesn't want to sic the cops on the guy, respect her wishes and be as supportive a friend as you can. I've been through something like this, and pushing her to get Johnny Law involved isn't necessarily what she needs from you right now.

I hope that helped.

[put out]

12. Oh, no.

Some of those drugs are out of your system in a very short while, I'm thinking GHB. If she could put her next urine into a sterile container and chill it until she can get it somewhere to by analyzed, maybe that would provide some evidence. Depending on when this happened, it may be too late.

It's too bad she didn't head straight to the hospital. But I can only speculate about what I would do. Maybe call a friend, and tell him to clean his gun.

I'm very sorry for your friend. Your care taking efforts I'm sure are so needed.

[Droopy]

13. That's disturbing

I say she was raped and should be contacting a doctor and the police asap.

[amazona]

16. she should see a doctor immediately no matter what

With the anal forced penetration, sadly, there is a good chance of HIV transmission. Even if the semen has already been washed away, if they can find this guy again, they can tell if she has been infected with the same strain of HIV that he carries. THis might also be true of any herpes transmission but I'm not sure of that one. Yes, sure, keep the dress, underwear, any evidence she can -- DNA sometimes lasts a decent amount of time. She needs to find this guy and get him off the street if at all possible. Filing a police report is unpleasant and the police often unhelpful, but if she can get the report on file, it's better than just sitting on her hands and doing nothing. People who do this don't do just one person, the more reports, the sooner he is off the street.

There are a variety of drugs that do this, GHB and ketamine spring to mind, but there are others -- the doctor can order the lab to do a toxicology screen. Also, even if the drug is no longer in her urine, maybe it is in her blood or even her hair?

I would definitely get her to your local women's center ASAP to find out what doctor, etc. she needs to see.

It is always rape if a man sticks his you-know in an unconscious woman, by the way.


The doctor can tell her if her butt is just sore from eating too much bean dip or something but, let's face it, doesn't sound like much chance of an innocent explanation.

Please let us know what happens. I'll be thinking of you and your friend.

[MrMonk]

20. She should see a doctor now.

Good advice in the post above.

The doctor can also document the injury and the tox test discussed above. Time is against her. She may not want to do anything about this now, but if she changes her mind, she will have the incident documented. Plus, if there is a more serious injury than simple abrasion, it's better to find out now, than later.

EDIT: I see from your post that two full days have passed. That only increases the importance of getting her to a doctor.

[sniffa]

21. i think i'LL caLL Later on

and try to get her to a doctor at the minimum. hopefuLLy i can get her to go and see where the road takes her.

[mede8er]

18. Hmmmmm.......

i'm so f'n upset. she said she knows she was taken avantage of. she's not sure if she was drugged. she doesn't think it's rape at the moment since she can't remember. she doesn't want to make a big deaL about it other than to caLL him and teLL him off.

Sounds like you're more concerned than she is...let it simmer for awhile........

[dumpster_baby]

19. I knew a GUY who was raped by a "friend" who used knockout drops

This (hetero) guy (who we shall call John) I knew about 20 years ago in San Antoniowent to dinner with a theatre director/producer type person about a play they were both working on. He had previously said that he thought the guy was gay. My roommate and I kidded him about going to dinner with a gay guy.

Then the next morning we found out that the theatre director had drugged him and raped him. He was at the guy's apartment and had sipped on a drink there. The next thing he knew he woke up and the guy was raping him.

We called the cops and the cops told us they usually couldn't do anything when two gays had sex! I told them that John was not even gay! Nothing ever happened to the guy!

THen a few months later, I saw this theater director's name mentioned in some arts column in the San Antonio newspaper. I called up the columnist and told him that that director had raped my friend, and the journalist told me the same thing the cops told me!

[SW FL Dem]

22. If she's been raped she is going to need help

You and she have two issues

1. catching the creep
2. helping your friend heal

The time passing is a serious problem for catching the creep. You or your friend should call the local rape crisis center and get their advice.

Your friend is likely to begin to remember. She needs friends and counseling ASAP and continually for the next several months until she is sure she is ok.

[sniffa]

24. update

thank you aLL for your advice and sympathies. they are greatLy appreciated.

my friend made a doctor's appointment for tomorrow to get checked out.
she caLLed the guy to ask if he used protection (and to teLL him off). he cLaims that he doesn't remember anything and was embarrassed.

she didn't go into detaiLs about the doctor's visit, so i'm curious (if anyone god forbid has experience in this) - shouLd she teLL the doc she may have been raped? shouLd she bring the stained dress with her to the doctor?

she said she's doing ok, but feeLs so embarrassed about what happened and doesn't want to press charges. so i guess i'm asking for advice on how she shouLd proceed just in case she changes her mind Later.

[Misunderestimator]

25. Yes, she should tell the doc that she thinks she was raped...

and Yes, she should save the dress. It may still have semen on it.

And if there is evidence of anal penetration (or god forbid, any STDs) it should definitely be used to go after the bastard.

At the very least she REALLY needs to get some counseling for this. She shouldn't be embarrassed... SHE was the one who was violated. I think she should press charges, even if they never go anywhere.

God damn these monsters! They use these drugs for exactly this reason, because they KNOW that women will hesitate to report the crime since they can't remember it.

Unfuckingbelievable. :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

[sniffa]

28. i know, they suck!!

maybe we shouLd start a miLitia to go after them.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

26. if she hasnt showered yet,. tell her not to. its important

[WilliamPitt]

27. Proving rape is difficult

If she doesn't remember, and if a Rape Kit wasn't run by a doctor before the evidence was showered off, it is hard to make the case. Apologies for speaking bluntly. A blood test for a date-rape drug is probably the best way to establish ill intent, but I don't know how long it stays in the bloodstream.

For the moment, the best thing you can do is be as good a friend as you can to her.

[sniffa]

29. thank you

i'm trying to controL my own emotions when taLking to her. i'm obviousLy upset that it happened, and i don't want her to feeL that i'm upset with her and her unwiLLingness to caLL it what it is.

some peopLe suck!

[jdonaldball]

30. Some legal clarity here

Just a few objective remarks:
1. There is no such crime as "date rape." Rape is just rape.
2. Going to the doctor is a good idea, and not just for legal reasons. Simply, for her health. She obviously doesn't know what happened and so, needs to be checked out for her own health.
3. If she was drugged involuntarily and then violated, then that would be rape, categorically. Not "date rape", just rape, period.
4. I could tell you all about the law of rape, but it's better for your friend to talk to a good lawyer about this rather than listen to anyone on DU, including me.
5. Rape is just rape. It is strictly defined. So, let a good lawyer tell your friend about the law, rather than anyone on DU (including me) deciding what this case is really about.

[sniffa]

31. gracias

i was just asking here on DU, because it's a safe environment for me and there's a wide range of opinions (incLuding yours).

and i agree, rape is rape.

[jdonaldball]

32. You're quite welcome

Right. Now for what little it's worth, sending a hug (a weak digital one, but still...) for your friend, and for you.
Rape used to be a capital offense, a hanging offense, and I think it should still be. All the more reason to be very strict and scrupulous in proving it.

[TeacherCreature]

33. tell her that she owes it to other women to stop him.

If he did it to her, he does it to others. It may have been his way of getting anal sex. That is rape. If she doesn't respect herself she should respect other defenseless women he is going to rape in the future.

[jdonaldball]

34. Respectfully, a slight correction here

A slight correction to TeacherCreature's last post - which would not be necessary if it did not concern accusations of a crime which is almost as bad as murder:
You said, "It may have been his way of getting anal sex. That is rape."
What those words mean, literally, is that you are saying anal sex is rape. I assume this was just a mistake in your syntax, just an error in writing clear English.
Please be more clear with your words. Anal sex is NOT rape, if it is consensual. (Not saying that I like the idea of anal sex - it sounds disgusting to me - but it's not rape if it is consensual.)
Sexual penetration of any kind, WITHOUT CONSENT, is rape.
Anal sex does not define rape. Consent or lack of consent, defines rape.
I don't want to be fussy about this, but the crime of rape is SO serious, that I don't like fuzzy definitions of it. The difference between rape and sloppy confused sex, is the difference between one night of confused emotions versus a ruined life (or TWO ruined lives), or the difference between a verbal reproach toward a vulgar creep, versus many years in prison for a violent criminal.
We're talking about a crime which is almost as bad as murder - or even worse than murder, for some people - so, please take the legal definition of rape very seriously. Usually, little errors of language are not worth a lot of fuss. But when it makes a difference between a verbal reproach, versus years in prison for a VIOLENT crime (and ALL rape is violent, including rapes through drugging), then we need to be very, very precise with our words.

[Angelus]

35. What I would tell her to do is...

go to the hospital and then contact the police. If a guy did this to her, drugged her and raped her, then he should be sitting in jail right now.

In cases like this, I think the punishment should be removal of the penis. But that's just me. :grr: :grr: :grr: