What is the ideal size for a city? What should the ideal city have?

[Screaming Lord Byron]

I say 3-400,000, the size of Victoria, BC or Brighton, England. Large enough to have a good rock 'n roll venue and an arthouse cinema, small enough that you can walk around. It should be on the waterfront, with a temperate, moist climate (good for the foliage), have a large creative arts community, and plenty of rich old people whose possesions can be bought cheaply in local second-hand stores after death (Joking. Sort of). Youse?

[blackcat77]

1. I think my home town is perfect

We have about 40,000 people and all the necessities of life are within easy reach, but just 40 miles down the road is Indianapolis, a major metropolitan centre with all the fancy stuff.

It's the best of both worlds...

[Guy Fawkes]

2. I'd say...

3-4,000,000. Just enough to have human-rights-breaking laws to dictate cleanlyness (I mean you, Singapore!)

[Screaming Lord Byron]

5. Hooray! Lynch the gum-chewing deviants!

[Donkeyboy75]

47. Hey, flush that toilet, you! n/t

[Kellanved]

3. 3,400,000

As Berlin is the ideal city ;-) .
</local patriotism>

[LynzM]

11. Ooh, Berlin...

Never made it up that way. Stuttgart was wonderful, though :D

[Kellanved]

42. Well

Germany north of the River Main (AKA Weisswurst-Äquator) is a different story than Germany south of it. Different folklore, different food (well, somewhat), and, as stereotypes go, a little grumpy but more honest (even if you don't want them to be honest) people.

Berlin as a city is just fabulous; many people won't fall in love with her at once, but on the second glance there is much to love (list is incomplete ;-) ):

-possibly the best public transportation system in the world
-cheap costs of living
-several world class orchestras
-several world-class stages
-several world-class museums
-no dress-code whatsoever
-three major Universities; several art schools and vocational colleges
-while the city is huge in area(larger than all five NYC boroughs together), it consist of several smaller cities ("Kieze").
-lots of parks, lakes, canals and rivers
-more bars than any other city in Europe
-no legal closing hour for bars
-Public Transportation works 7/24 (limited service on weekdays)
-good Asian food (important in Germany; most cities have a problem with that)
-open minded people
-within 100km of the Polish border
-did I mention the Parks? The city looks like a forest from above
-Soccer, Basketball and American Football teams

to be honest: the downsides
-dog poo
-winters can be tough
-not really near the sea (and no good seafood)
-the Berliners can be difficult at first
-dog poo
-the city is totally broke
-Nazis in the outer districts
-did I mention dog poo?
-tough Job Market

[Lydia Leftcoast]

50. Sorry, Tokyo has the best transit in the world

and I'm not alone in thinking this.

Above ground commuter trains, both public and private, subways, and buses, all coordinated to cover the entire metropolitan area, which is about the size of the Los Angeles metropolitan area, only with three times as many people. Oh, and they are continually building new train and subway lines. It seems that every time I go there, I have to get a new transit map.

[Kellanved]

51. point taken

Looks like a bowl of noodles:
http://www.tokyometro.jp/network/pdf/rosen_eng.pdf


However the Berlin system has the advantage of not being crowded and it operates 24 hours a day on weekends (Busses on weekdays).

[Kellanved]

4. Dupe post; Sorry

As Berlin is the ideal city ;-) .
</local patriotism>

[soupkitchen]

6. Category: Sizing up Cities For $2,000 the answer is One Square Mile

[Zolok]

7. I ideal city should have

covering from a huge clear plastic dome and flying cars.
:)

[Screaming Lord Byron]

9. And no residents over thirty.

And Michael York.

[Zolok]

14. And and and...rocket engines and giant

mechanical arms so it can beat on the other domed flying cities...FOUR OF THEM!!!!!

I just want to say with all humility...that I AM SANE!!!
:)

[Screaming Lord Byron]

15. Shall we rename you Wonko The Sane?

[Zolok]

46. What...I'm not allowed to have a little fun?

Those flying cars would be ni-ice....
:)

[Screaming Lord Byron]

52. Nah, it was an anal reference to 'So long and thanks for all the fish'

[Zolok]

53. Didn't read that one...

saw th' TV adaptation though.
Hard to believe the late Mr. Adams once was the script editor for Dr. Who.
No on second that that isn't so hard to believe...
:)

[Speck Tater]

23. With no residents over thirty it wouldn't be a city...

it would be a playground.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

25. It would also be the 1976 sci-fi flick 'Logan's Run'

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074812/

[Bridget Burke]

8. Ethnic diversity!

And not just for noble reasons. I'm talking about a wide selection of restaurants. And many weekend festivals with varied music & dance.

A larger city would be OK with a good transit system. Throw in a few colleges or universities while we're at it. And some interesting building stock--historical or not.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

10. Yeah. Has to have at least one uni and one art school.

[Fenris]

12. A moderate climate, a university, and daily giant robot fights.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

13. And friendly, servile mammoths.

[Fenris]

16. And whale bartenders.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

19. Suspended from flocks of curmudgeonly gulls.

[Fenris]

20. And the gulls smoke corncob pipes and play banjo.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

22. Ah, but it's only a glorious dream. A vision of what man could be.

Not the stinking, fettered mass of what is.

[Fenris]

26. The gull feces would be unbearable.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

28. Nonsense. They would provide fuel for our floating guano-converters.

Cheap shit-based energy for all!

[Fenris]

29. But of course! Guano cold-fusion!

We've solved the earth's energy problems already!

[Screaming Lord Byron]

30. Hooray for shite!

[Fenris]

31. Shite is the solution! Shite is the ANSWER!

How's that for clever sloganeering?

[Screaming Lord Byron]

33. You're always RIGHT with SHITE!

[Speck Tater]

24. And not too many vampires.

I like to walk safely at night.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

27. Some, not many.

The constant Nazgul patrols should keep numbers at a manageable level.

[flamingyouth]

40. I think Seattle sounds perfect for you

Come on up and see us sometime.:D

[Feanorcurufinwe]

17. A university is essential.

[Xithras]

18. A city should be small enough to walk across.

I don't mind visiting major cities, but I could never live in one. My hometown (Pop around 200,000) is still small enough that I could walk from work to home in a couple hours if I so chose. Any larger than that and you begin to lose the sense of community that makes smaller cities enjoyable to live in.

[Lisa]

32. Christopher Alexander also backs the "walkable neighborhood" idea

Although he supports cities larger than the 200-300 thousand range which a lot of people seem to like, he believes they are a lot more comfortable when composed of districts where people can have most of their needs met within 10 minutes walk, and develop that sense of community.

Good design can put a relatively-high population into a fairly small geographical area -- this helps services like public transit be more efficient, so the extra population density may not be quite as obvious. (A lot of older European cities were designed before most residents had private transportation, even horses ... so they have relatively small and walkable downtowns.)



Some suggestions for city designs:

www.newcolonist.com/crawford.html

[Speck Tater]

21. My town is perfect with about 150,000 and

another 150,000 in a neighboring town for about 300,000 in the whole metro area.

We have an Opera company, Ballet, a symphony orchestra, a world class chamber orchestra, a community college, a state university with a Pac-10 football team, a couple of smaller private colleges, a number of community theater companies, and a performing art center large enough to attract big name acts.

And the weather is perfect year around except in October, November, December, January, February, March, April, and May when it rains entirely too much.

[Lisa]

34. design and amenities are pretty important ...

Under certain circumstances, even more so than size? I've lived in cities as big as Victoria which weren't viewed nearly as positively by residents and visitors -- due to urban sprawl, industrial pollution, not "hip" enough, and a landscape/climate which weren't as appealing. I've never lived in a city with more than 400,000 people, but after seeing some European examples, I think I could adjust as long as the city had avoided some of the major planning errors we've made in North America.

Funny you'd mention that "second-hand stores" thing -- I picked up what appears to be a Canadian Art Nouveau copper teapot at Value Village last week. I was imagining that some ninety-year-old flapper in Fairfield had just shuffled (Charlestoned?) off her mortal coil.

I'd add good public services -- like free commuter/recreation trails and accessible parks; decent and affordable public transit; and a library system. My officemate wants me to mention services for the elderly and handicapped, and for families with small children. Having a university is good, but the local public schools should also kick scholastic butt, with interesting experimental programmes and an inclusive atmosphere -- otherwise you get a town/gown divide in terms of education. (One of the best ones here in School District 61 is called "South Park", believe it or not.)

[northzax]

35. oh please, that's not a city

that's a town. Until you get to 750,000 or larger, you have a large town, not a city. Frankly, I think DC at 700k (+4 mil in the burbs) is the perfect size. Big enough to get lost in, small enough to find yourself quickly. and the huge mass of people in the burbs lets us support cultural insitutions that we otherwise couldn't.

remember, you asked about Cities, not places to live. If there aren't more than a million people within ten miles of the center, it ain't a city.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

36. My categorizing would be.

2,000 - 50,000 Town
50,000 - 1,000,000 City
1,000,000+ Metropolis

[northzax]

39. interesting, but WRONG, WRONG I tell you :)

I refuse to submit another definition, but you are wrong, simply on principles. ok?

[Screaming Lord Byron]

45. Yes, sir!

[Lisa]

37. actually, you're both right

Statistics Canada sets the threshold for "city" at 50,000 these days (a "census metropolitan area", which includes the major centres in the country, is >100,000).

http://www.statcan.ca/english/concepts/definitions/geography.htm#2

Other countries set the bar higher -- China, Japan, and most of Europe have had larger communities for much longer, so 100,000 is nothing to them.


A mere 200 years ago, there weren't even two dozen cities on Earth with populations greater than 200,000! Even the mighty NYC would only be considered a large town today.

[TrogL]

38. Around 1/2 million

• good concert hall(s) with a large pipe organ
  
• university
  
• community college
  
• technical school
  
• good school system(s)
  
• parks
  
• bicycle and walking trails
  
• large churches
  
• cultural centres
  
• sports complexes
  
• public spaces
  
• YMCA
  
• shopping - big box, regular and niche
  
• good major and city council
  

[Magrittes Pipe]

41. Screw "cities."

I wanna live in the country.

Only a short carriage ride from a bustling metropolis, though. ;)

[yvr girl]

43. 1 - 2 million

The essentials:

location, location, location
university
good transportation system
variety of cultural venues
a major sporting franchise
diversity of restaurants
distinct neighbourhoods
parks and more parks - nature preserved
places to buy things both essential and eclectic
a city centre that contains residents as well as businesses
low crime rate
ample recreation
moderate climate

I am biased, but Vancouver, where I live is truly spectacular. It is often voted as one of the most livable cities in the world.

[maveric]

44. Like San Diego?

Great Location
Many decent universities. (San Diego State, UCSD, USD, dozens of 2-year colleges.
Great public transit. (Bus, train and trolley)
Many cultural venues. Especially in Balboa Park.
Padres and Chargers, Minor league hockey "Gulls".
Restaurants of many if not all ethnicities and styles.
Diverse neighborhoods. (White, black, hispanic, asian, filipino, russian, arabic, italian, portugese....)
Parks are well kept and everywhere.
Shopping everywhere.
Centre City has quite a population boom of late. many high rise condos being built all over downtown.
Crime rate is about a 5 on the scale of 1-10.
Recreation? Biking, hiking, boating, water skiing, volleyball, baseball/softball, running, off roading, fishing.....
Best climate in the lower 48.

1.3 million in San Diego proper.

[Donkeyboy75]

48. Hopefully 200,000

Moving to Cork in a month...

[Lydia Leftcoast]

49. Size doesn't matter so much as

> Good planning, with distinct neighborhoods, each of which contains essential services within walking distance, as well as good access to larger shopping and commercial areas.
> Superb public transit and facilities for bicycles and pedestrians, so that no one is forced to own a car.
> An honest and progressive city government that has the well-being of the citizens at heart
> A public school system up to world standards, with science, art, theater, music, and languages for all, so that all the city's children, no matter what their ethnicity or social class, can achieve their full potential. This should include affordable daycare with teachers trained in early childhood education.
> A well-equipped and well-tended park in every neighborhood
> No suburban building patterns imposed on the city. If big-box stores want in, they have to provide parking in the back or underground or on top of the building.
> Affordable housing in a variety of forms: apartments, duplexes, condos, cooperatives, co-housing, and stand-alone houses on private lots, with different income levels living in every neighborhood
> Community gardens
> Ethnic diversity, with the ensuing choice of restaurants, festivals, and arts events
> A university or two
> A symphony orchestra, opera company, ballet company, and a major theater company, as many other kinds of smaller musical, vocal, dance, and theater companies
> A sports team is less important than recreational facilities for all, community athletic centers in every part of the city
> A city-wide single payer health plan paid for by a city income tax, assuming that national single-payer health care is not in the cards for the foreseeable future. (Yes, anti-tax zealots would flee the city, but reasonable employers and regular folks would see the trade-off: a few hundred dollars more per year in income tax versus paying a few hundred dollars per month in insurance premiums per person.)
> Train service to other cities and an international airport with flights to all continents, with no one airline dominating the gates, so that there is real competition
> A wide range of jobs in all sectors
> Working with the natural environment instead of against it in terms of architecture, landscaping, and amenities.
> TV and radio stations with local news departments that actually cover local news, such as what the local governments are up to. Also locally-programmed radio stations for every taste in music.