Parents - am I really out of touch?

[seaglass]

My daughter will be 15 in a few weeks. She has become "friends" with a 17/18 yo. We had a huge battle a couple weekends ago because she wanted to go over to his house to watch a movie and I wouldn't let her a.) go over without speaking to his parents to make sure they would be home and b.) be picked up by the boy in his car.

I know she feels that I'm treating her like a child and I empathize with her. I know that in order for her to mature that I need to let her begin to make some of her own choices, 15 just seems so young to be riding around with seniors and older - especially if I don't know the kid. It also seems really young to be going over to boys' houses without me making sure a parent is home.

So, am I over-protective? My daughter and I have a fairly open relationship but I think if I'm too strict she might eventually attempt to go behind my back.

[sallyseven]

1. No and she will thank you for it someday.

Have him bring the movie to your house.

[seaglass]

5. I'm not sure why she will thank me but that's OK. In this instance

it worked out fine because I knew the boy's parents (though I hadn't seen them in years) and the boy's little brother watched the movie with them.

I know the car rides will come up again when school starts because many of her friends got rides to school with seniors last year. We did not let her get a ride last year - our excuse, which was valid - was that the boy who offered to give her a ride was a horrible driver (we knew him and my husband has seen him racing around town a lot).

So is your belief that 15yo is too young to be in a car with other teenagers?

[rlev1223]

24. Your voice

Usually I don't much like self-help books but when my daughter was 13 or 14 someone gave me a copy of "I Hate You Mom! Can You Drive Me and (someone's name - I forget) to the Mall?"

It had a lot of worthwhile advice, the main jist of which was --

One way or another your daughter is going to find herself (or seek out) situations that you would prefer her not to be in - a party, a boy, choice of friends, possibly drinking or even drug experimentation. The really important thing is that you always let her know what your expectations are and that although you respect her desire to make her own decisions there are lines which you hope and expect she will me mature enough not to cross.

Your voice -- which she probably respects much more than she would let on -- will stay with her even when she's somewhere you can't be and she doesn't want you to be. You literally can't keep her away from all dicey situations but your presence can be felt.

Of course, you still have to annoy her by checking ahead as much as you can but she will indeed thank you later.

[wolfgirl]

2. Stick to your guns

but try a different tack. Instead of her going w/him, have her invite him (and maybe a couple of other friends) over and they can watch the movie at your house. You'll need to vacate the viewing area but at least you know she is safe.

You'll get to know him, find out about his family, etc. Have him come early & have an informal style dinner. You can learn about the kids when they are just hanging out around the house and they think you are out of earshot (we never really are tho).

It beats yelling and screaming.

[Kahuna]

3. Well, if it was my daughter I'd feel the way you do. I hung out

with older boys when I was fifteen. One of them tried to rape me in a car one night after bar hopping. I was drunk. (yes, I bar hopped when I was 15. What can I say? I looked older). That was the only negative experience I had. But that one was a doozy. It did teach me to not get drunk with older boys. She can wait until she's sixteen to date at a boys house. One year won't kill her.

[seaglass]

9. When I was 13 I was dating a 17 yo and I did drink beer at

that age. Perhaps I was really lucky but the guys I hung out with were very protective of me, that's why I hate to automatically think that older boys have only one intention with younger girls. I'm sorry about your experience, I had a similar one when I was a bit older.

[Stew225]

4. As a fellow parent of a soon to be 15 year old

girl, well, first of all, you have my compassion. Wow! My daughter is wonderful but what an AGE!!!!!!!!

Secondly, it's my opinion that your instincts are right. It also sounds as if you're a good parent.

[BiggJawn]

6. You're not out of touch.

I required the same thing from MY daughter until she left for college.Didn't run a credit check or anything, just wanted to see that the parents weren't Fundies or ReTHUGlicans and I wanted to see who she was leaving with so I'd know how to try and get ahold of her if needed.

It's just common courtesy to let someone know where you're gonna be and who you're with.

Tell your daughter "I understand, dear, I told MY mom the SAME thing when I was 15..."

[seaglass]

21. I've already joked with her about getting references on boys

she's interestd in dating and having them fill out a questionnaire. Never thought about asking for their parents political affiliation though. I'll have to add that to the list.;-)

Although I don't have a problem with it, my mom never really kept track of what I was doing at that age. Certainly there was no rule about riding in cars or going over boys houses.

[goddess40]

7. Make sure you have a talk with her about boys that age

If your dad, be honest with her about how you viewed 'dates' back then. If she has an older brother or cousin she is close to they would be even better equiped to get through to her.
My best education was listening to my brother (a jock who was one year older then me) and his friends talk about their girlfriends. They used these girls and ran around on them with anyone that would say yes.
The girls, many from my grade, thought that by having sex with their boyfriends that it would make them love them and be faithful.
While there are exceptions they are few.
As a society we teach boys that if you can get a girl into bed by dishonest methods it is OK, personally I think it is a form of date rape. WE also send the message that by having sex it makes you mature, when in truth the opposite is true.
We reinforce the lie by elevating young girls to adulthood when they get pregnant.

My advice to my nieces was if the boys says " if you love me you would" they should say "if you loved me you wouldn't". Also that if a guy is pressuring you he is thinking only about himself, and he surely isn't worth it.

[seaglass]

15. OMG, the conversations we have had. Two years ago she

was convinced that bjs were no big deal, girls her age were giving them in school and at parties freely, sometimes for $5. A boy told her if she gave him one he would go out with her and since he was a "catch" she was actually considering it (kind of). Talk about an eye-opening conversation.

She assures me that everyone knows she's "prude" (for some reason she insists prude is an adjective :eyes:) I don't want her to be sexually repressed but I know she is nowhere near (mentally/emotionally) ready for it.

[goddess40]

18. diseases of today are too scary for that level of casual sex

It sure is a male adolescence dream world out there isn't it.
My boys both have NLD (nonverbal learning disorder) which makes body language near impossible to pick up. Dating for them will be very difficult (if not impossible in high school before any real maturity for both sexes really sets in).
I have talked to my oldest about the possibility that some sick bully would sic a diseased girl on him to be 'funny' and that if some girl 'just wants to have sex' with him that he needs to be strong and walk away.

[Ilsa]

8. For what it's worth....My kids are still much younger,

and they are boys, but I think you are doing the right thing. She is seeing by your actions, not just your words, how important character is and how important she is to you.

There is nothing old fashioned about wanting to know who your kids are spending time with and whether they are supervised.

The other day I was reading about how the Executive Manager (good judgement and understanding long term consequences) in the prefrontal cortex isn't fully developed until ages 20-25. She probably still has a long way to go in learning how to make big decisions (the kind she could be pressured into by a 17 year old), so I think some degree of protection is in order so she doesn't do irrevocable harm.

BTW, when I was almost 16, my father stepped in and stopped me from having a date with a much older young man. I still appreciate it to this day.

Good luck. I don't envy your position right now.

[Tesha]

10. You are a good parent....

When you have to be tough, your kids may say they hate you - but honestly, they feel safer, and they have an excuse to tell their friends! Its my PARENTS!

You follow the same rules as our house did - and we always had a houseful - other parents either knew their kids were safe with us, and for those parents who didn't care - their kids seemed to appreciate the safe haven we offered. Invite this boy! Make him part of your circle - how can she stay angry?

We were friends when we could be and parents when required - works out well - my now-grown kids still like me!

[Deja Q]

11. What they said...

Boys can be terrible opportunistic jerks.

Some of them never grow up when they become men.

Please remain protective of her though do so in a way that doesn't make it seem you're being overly strict.

[rock]

12. You're the best one to make that call

Do what you think is right.

[Saltdog]

13. Not meaning to upset anyone, but...

It turns out a large portion of 15 year olds are sexually active. I don't think this is a major recent change either.

15 is a natural age to start making one's own decisions, almost especially if those decisions are in conflict with the advice, or orders, of one's parents. Attempting to restrict her is likely to make her even more (rebellious or independent, depending on how you look at it).

The thing to remember is that you raised her. You led by example and helped her to become the person she is today. By specifically dictating a restrictive code of behavior for her, you are following the example of the traditional Christian conservative American family. Worse yet, you are the one violating the trust between you by not extending her your trust that she will do the right thing. Since you don't trust her (in her mind, if you pursue this strategy), then she has no need to live up to any expectations.

Just trying to give an impression of how teens see things...

It might be better to discuss things with her as an adult. Talk about your concerns about her seeing an older boy. Although, it must be pointed out that it is hardly unusual for girls to date older boys at that age. Talk about safe sex and about how you would like her to experience something as important as sex in the framework of a healthy long term relationship, etc. Whatever you feel, express it with honesty and maturity. Kids can see right through BS.

It is far better to meet her in her world with an understanding of what she faces and what she thinks rather than issuing orders to be followed in the hope that she won't disobey the first chance she gets.

All that being said, I know it is difficult. Try to be as understanding and loving as you wish your parents had been (or were)when you had problems. For this is, in fact, a problem for her: A rite of passage into adulthood where friends become something more (whether it is an exclusively romantic friendship or contains sexual elements). The transition to adulthood is painful for parents and children alike, though like all things, it is a transition best dealt with through compassion, understanding, and open communication rather than threats, bullying, and punitive acts.

[seaglass]

25. It's actually more surprising to me that most of the girls in

my daughter's circle haven't even kissed a boy yet.

The thing is, I'm not done raising her yet. She has made decisions that are in conflict with my advice and I've accepted them but she is not mature enough yet to make all of her decisions. If she was, she would be considered an adult.

I didn't mean to give the impression that I issue orders or that I'm not listening to her point of view - nor that threats or bullying is involved, I do try to compromise with her. Initially I wasn't too thrilled with her hanging out with a kid that much older but we came to an agreement that I could be comfortable with and she was OK with.

[Bonhomme Richard]

14. I have boys, but just the same......

we always tried to know about where they were going, who with and supervision. It was a little easier where I live because the area is fairly rural so the were not walking anywhere.
You are never wrong setting limits and in a while they realize what the rules are and actually I think that they like having limitations.
It's funny that for years and to this day all the kids come and hang here. I firmly believe it's because they have a safe place to go.

[LARED]

16. 14 year old teen girls are children.

So are 17/18 year old boys. Speaking as an ex 18 year old boy, stick to your guns, she is way too young to hang out at his house unsupervised.

IMO a 14 years olds maturity education should letting her make her own decisions as to do you want to mow the yard or mop the floor.

[candy]

17. She has plenty of time ahead of her to make her own choices----

You are the parent,you set the rules. In 3 years it will be up to her,but hang tight.

[leftofthedial]

19. you did good IMHO

Never let a girl that age go somewhere in a car with anyone you don't know.

You have to make the call about your daughter's maturity level, but 14 is too young for that.

What's the objection to you speaking with the parents? What's the objection to you at least meeting the boy first? If your daughter was mature enough to do it, she'd also be mature enough to understand your concerns.

[seaglass]

20. It was mainly her embarassment about feeling like she

was being walked to the front door with her mother like a little kid being brought to a birthday party. I understood exactly how she felt and offered to call instead but that was the way it ended up happening.

I haven't even come to the conclusion that she can go in a car with someone we do know if that person is a teenager. That's where I'm worried about being too strict.

[seventhson]

22. I work with girls this age and younger (and have a daughter 14)

I am an attorney who has worked a lot in the family and juvenile system so I see the worst cases (rape, incest, runaways, abused kids, cutters, etc.)

a couple of things-

take her to planned parenthood (or a skilled ob-gyn) and have her acquire birth control (pills, condoms and/or female condoms, whatever). Nothing prepares a girl for saying no like having to think about it and considering the possibilities. also - this will demonstrate that you trust her but that you know that such an event is out there and you want her to be prepared as well as knowledgeable.


SHE will decide when and where to have sex no matter what you do and you can make it harder for her (so that she really has to sneak) or you can trust her and let her know you are there for her no matter what.

Also - once she knows that the decision is HERS (though you believe she is probably not ready which you should tell her honestly)then she will have to make a mature decision and hopefully the right one.

in most states at sicteen children can leave home with impunity and become emancipated (legal adults who can wed, join the military, quit school, etc)

If she is not prepared now for those rights and responsibilities then she won't be then. she will have to make these decisions (whether to say "yes" or not) the rest of her life and she needs to be equipped NOW to do that smartly.

If she is just too immature generally to understand then hopefully a doctor's visit will sober her up and at least make her more prepared and safer.

remember oral sex can cause disease too if the partner is infected.


try renting "13" and watch it with her as well as "White Oleander". these movies teach a lot about choices and temptations.

I like "Degrassi High" for my kids too as they touch on these sensitive issues and they can be discussed.

do not be afraid to be firm and protective. explain why to her. but do not fail to arm her with what she needs to be safe when she DOES end up alone with one of these guys.

and you must insist on meeting and getting to know him and at least phone meet the parents.

these days he could be great or he could be a total user/loser and slacker and you need to know just to be prepared

if he is not jiggy with that then you know he is not up to any good (even Fonzie knew how to impress the Mommies)

[seaglass]

27. Thanks seventhson, you gave me some good advice

previously about a teacher who was sending inappropriate IMs to my daughter and I will always appreciate that.

I understand the need for my daughter to make decisions and to gain the ability to say no but my thinking is that this is something learned over time, that the more strength I see in her, the more responsibility for making decisions for herself she will have.

She is starry-eyed about an older boy having interest in her. I don't know whether he is an honorable person or not, I'm willing to give it time to determine that. I let my daughter know the thinking I use to judge this (mostly how he treats her and his honesty) and hope that she is building her own criteria. Surprisingly, she had already checked out who his past girlfriends were, whether he was a player or not. I'm proud of her for doing this.

We did see 13 together.

I don't know about birth control, I really have to consider whether she will believe this means I'm giving her tacit approval. I know when I was 16 I just asked my mom if I could get the pill and I believe my daughter would do the same. I have to think this over.

[seventhson]

37. whether or not she gets birth control

she should certainly have immediate protection (condoms or female condoms which I think are better as a male, or both) but the ob/gyn consultation is really the most important.

the thing is the dangers of pregnancy, new untreatable forms of syphilis, AIDS, herpes, and the other std's make at least the knowlkedge required.

the pill is certainly an option but is not a preventive for aids and stds which can harm her for life or even kill her.

I happen to believe that the temptation which is forbidden and dangerous is harder to resist than that which is accepted as real and planned - meaning that once she yields to impulse she is likely to endanger herself due to hormones. Having to plan or stop for birth control and think about it (because she has the option) will make her LESS likely to submit or go all the way because her intellect and willpower will have to kick in to maneuver (putting the condom on, etc.)

you need to tell her that the reason you are doing this is because ultimately she will be faced with the choice and must make it with or without you (not permission, but acknowledgement that it is always a possibility which she needs to be prepared for nonetheless)

[eaprez]

23. No - you are Right On!

15 year old girls have no business with 18 year olds period! As a matter of fact, I don't think 15 year old girls need to be running around with 18 year old girls! Let her get mad. She'll get over it. If she starts sneaking around and gets caught then lower the boom on her.

[Fleshdancer]

26. Listen to your intuition

if that little voice inside of you is telling you this situation doesn't feel right, then don't ignore it. Besides, your daughter is 15 and she's going to get angry over the small, unimportant stuff anyway so don't sweat making her upset on the big stuff.

If you fear that she'll start going behind your back, then I think the best thing you do is to keep talking to her about why you don't like the situation and to also get in touch with the young man's parent(s). Sometimes your best bet is to form a strong alliance with the other caregivers. For all we know, the parent(s) of this guy could be just as uneasy with him going out with your 15 yr. old girl just as you are.

[Dogmudgeon]

28. The One-Seventy-Nine

Sorry, but while it's fine to be protective of your children, the stricter-is-better philosophy is just as wrong as the strict-is-bad philosophy. And everybody 'round here seems to have bought into it.

From about this point on until she is 18, you will have to let go little by little, and trust her little by little. Neither a philosophy of strictness nor a philosophy of tolerance will help you one bit. Keen powers of observation, intuition, and trust (of yourself and your daughter) are what will help you make the right decisions.

If you're looking to us for permission to either crack down or to loosen up, you're making a mistake. Trust yourself and your daughter. The rest of us are all a bunch of idiots. :)

--bkl

[seaglass]

33. I agree with you that it is a process over time and the difficulty

is finding the balance between strict and not-strict.

I have mixed feelings about allowing her in a car with a teenage driver because I never had a rule like that when I was a teen, many of her friends are driven to school by teenagers and my main reasoning for disallowing it in all honesty, is that I don't want her to die and it seems the odds increase with a young inexperienced driver. Silly isn't it? In reality I know that my ability to protect her from death will lessen over time.

I know I have a tendency to worry too much and sometimes it is difficult to tell when I'm letting my worries get control of my reason.

Not really looking for permission, I appreciate getting lots of input and sifting through it. I was hoping for a graceful way of dealing with the meet-the-parents routine with an older child.
Not idiots at all.;)

[Dogmudgeon]

39. For right now

At just-about-fifteen, a little (as in, "a discreet amount of") strictness goes a long way toward building a better relationship. A 16-year-old driver isn't necessarily death on wheels, but is more likely to get into an accident.

I am surprised, though, that a 16-year-old would have unrestricted use of a car at night. Most licenses restrict 16-year-olds, and many are restrictive before age 18. So the balance you'd want to strike is making sure she will be safe, whatever the rules turn out to be.

I'm wary of the one-size-fits-all approach. When I was growing up, it was a constant tug of war in my community between the right-wing stricts and the progressive permissives. As a result, we had open classrooms, and a complete abuse of the "paddle policy" -- "if it feels good, spank it", so to speak.

And of course we're idiots here -- we don't have your daughter to contend with! :)

--bkl

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

29. Just sit in your living room cleaning your gun when they pick her up

That should do the trick :D

[Nay]

30. Nope. You're doing the right thing. Once, when my 15-yr-old son

told me he wanted to go to an all-night sleepover with a bunch of kids from school, and that his best friend "Joe" was being allowed to go, I got on the phone to Joe's mom to ask her if that was true.

Joe's mom: "WHAAAAAAT????"

So, my guess is that when you call the parents of this boy, you just might get the same reaction.

Also, if you don't know this boy or his parents, it's a sad commentary to have to remind you that there are plenty of adults out there whom you cannot trust to safeguard your daughter.

[seaglass]

34. I did know the parents. That's the weird thing about living

in the same town you grew up in. I mostly knew the dad, who used to party with us (my husband and I) back in the days before we had kids.

Parenthood changes some people and others, sadly, it does not. These parents are good, responsible people.

[SoCalDem]

31. Unless you want to be a Grandma, stick to it..

15 year old girls should NEVER EVER date/be friends with/hang out with/visit boys 17-18 yrs old.. Girls at that age think they are all grown up, but boy a couple of years older than that are often more than eager to take advantage of a 15 yr old..

The boy is finishing high school...and moving on..and there is NOWHERE for this relationship to go...except for her getting hurt and or pregnant :(

I feel your pain.. :(.

[seaglass]

35. Well I was friends with boys that age when I was 13. Maybe

I was just lucky.

I definitely don't want to be a grandma yet!

[SoCalDem]

36. It's sad, but kids HAVE changed

Kids have been exposed to so much sex ...everywhere, and those hormones are raging, so it's not a surprise when "something happens"..

If you can slow things down ..do it !!

The key word is "friends".. You said she was flattered that he was "interested" in her.. He is not "interested" in her to "be friends"...An 18 year old boy usually does not have that much in common with a 15 year old girl..to be "friends" that is..

He is interested in her..but he wants to be more than friends.. If she did not "feel the attraction too" she would not be flattered.. It would be a ho-hum.. "Mom, this is so-and-so..we're gonna watch tv and shoot some hoops".. She's all fluttery over him because there is a physical attraction...

gasoline, meet match :scared:

[seaglass]

38. There are some brakes being applied and I will continue to

do so. She is flattered that he would even talk to her because he's popular and older. I can't tell yet if this is because she likes him romantically or because it impresses her friends. I am handling this with kid gloves.

If I didn't have the experiences I did when I was a teen I would say 100% that it wasn't possible for them to be just friends. But I'm not naive enough to believe that my situation was the norm.

[Maestro]

32. No in fact the teenage years

are when you really need to be on top of what your kids are doing. Be in their face, involved in their lives. They will hate you, but thank you later.

[fortyfeetunder]

40. You are right on about this

I have a son and I would certainly question HIS judgment if he was 18 and took up with a 15YO girl.

Something you might want to check into is what do these two have in common, like interests, hobbies, career goals. And since you know the young man's family, perhaps some group family activities let them both know the parents care about this budding relationship.

[SW FL Dem]

41. I agree with your decision- You are not overprotective

I wish my parents were more protective of me. When I was barely 14, I was allowed to date an older boy. He was from a "good family", a good student, a star athlete, etc. Unfortunately, my parents let me get into a situation that I wasn't ready for. I was abused emotionally and physically for months and I didn't know how to help myself. I am very lucky I didn't get pregnant, my life would have been very different if I had. The guy ended up getting another high school girl pregnant a few years later. She dropped out and married him. He ended up working for the local phone company. I went on to college and law school.

Continue to listen to your daughter, be firm, trust your gut and explain your reasons to her. An open line of communication is critical. I now have a 13 year old son. I know I have to start letting him go but I have made it very clear that I expect him to make mistakes, and that when he does, I expect him to tell me about them. I won't always agree with his choices, but I will respect his right to make them and I will always love him, no matter what he chooses.

As far as the driving goes, I have made my decision. My son will not be allowed to ride in a car driven by his friends until they are 18. I know of two families who have lost teens in senseless auto accidents in the past year. The statistics are there and I am not willing to take the chance.

[rucky]

42. Are you ready for her to start having sex?

because she will, if she hasn't already. Wouldn't hurt to ask her.

since she's being honest instead of sneaking, chances are she will respect your decision as long as you give good reasons.

edit: check out this Frontline on the teenage brain:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/teenbrain/

[WillParkinson]

43. Yes, you are out of touch...

Not really. I just like being different.

Tell her that you trust her. But you don't know him well enough to trust him.

[Nlighten1]

44. I would do the same.

I have two daughters and I haven't run into this situation yet but if I did I would probably do the same thing you did.

[seventhson]

45. Keep in mind that sex between them is statutory rape for him and prison

and a lifetime of registering as a sex offender.

I would tell both of them this.

If he is smart he will not touch her at all until she is at least 16 - before that he could go to prison.

a little reality therapy never hurts - they should know the potential consequences in the eyes of the law even if many of us might think that law should not apply to consenting teens.