I'm concerned about my friend and I think I need some advice...

[battleknight24]

The other day, my friend and I took a trip out of town about 30 minutes away from where we live. She has been having some serious problems with her boyfriend and needed to talk to me. On our way out of town, she started crying and told me what was going on with the two of them. As far as I know, right now they are not talking to each other; I think they are both taking a short break to think things out. The problems are of their relationship is not why I am writing this.

They have been seeing each other for about 8 months, give or take. She's 18 and he's 26 or 27. She confided in me that they have had sex with each other more once (maybe 3 or 4 times, she wasn't exact).

This girl and I are best friends. We tell each other EVERYTHING.

I asked her if they were careful and she said yes.

I asked her if they used condoms and she said no.

I asked her if she was on birth control and she said no.

So I asked her how they were careful.

"He made sure to pull out." I told her that pre-cum has sperm in it and it is still possible for her to get pregnant, that she was taking a risk. She responded "its a risk worth taking." I'm not sure what we said to each other after that.

I had a doctor's appointment today (just a check-up) and before my visit ended, I told him what my friend had said and asked him about unprotected sex and the chances of a girl getting pregnant. He didn't give me any king of statistics, but his exact words were: "your friend is rolling the dice."

My friend is barely 18. She has big plans for her life- she wants to be a doctor- and I care for her a lot.

What do I do?


Peace,

[salinen]

1. Buy some condoms and give

them to her.

[battleknight24]

10. (Original poster here)Should I give them to her and say...

... "I love you and I care about you. Wrap it up."


Peace,

[Kadie]

2. Birth control isn't the only reason to use a condom

Since she is talking of becoming a doctor, I am sure she is aware of STD's. Talk to her, tell her you care about her, and you want her to take care of herself.

Good Luck.

[yardwork]

3. Why is she dating a guy who is so much older than she is?

I know that wasn't your question. It's my question. It's unusual for a man that age to be dating a girl who is barely 18. As you say, she has her whole life ahead of her - college, medical school, etc.

I'm suspicious of a man that age dating a young girl. It's worse that he didn't know enough to use protection.

You are absolutely right about her risks of being pregnant through unprotected sex, even if the man withdraws.

She's at risk for a lot more than pregnancy. She could be infected with HIV, hepatitis, syphilis, and numerous other more common but problematic venereal diseases. Who wants herpes? Genital warts can be a precursor for ovarian cancer. Etc.

A lot of these diseases don't cause many symptoms at first, especially in women. Women can be infected and not know it.

Urge your friend to see a doctor. If she won't see a physician, suggest Planned Parenthood. She needs to learn the facts of life.

Tell her it is a matter of life and death. If she's going to have sex, she needs to be a grown-up and learn how to protect herself.

Also, I'd encourage her to meet men closer to her own age. Get her focused on her own ambitions. Remind her that she deserves the life she wants.

Good luck. You are a true friend.

[susanna]

4. Dang, yardwork...

You hit he nail on the head.

Well done.

[battleknight24]

5. Do you really want me to get into it?

Its a long story...

[yardwork]

7. It doesn't matter.

I just think that there might be an underlying issue here, and that is that your friend might have a low self-image, poor self esteem, you know, that makes her attracted to older, apparently unreliable men (any adult man who doesn't know to use protection, or is too selfish to use protection, counts as "unreliable" to me).

She's lucky to have a good friend in you. You obviously care about her a lot.

[battleknight24]

11. (Original Poster) Why do you think she has low self-image and...

low self-esteem???

By the way, there is more to this story than you think... but its getting late...


Peace,

[pagerbear]

17. I quote: "It's a risk worth taking"

It sounds like she's saying his wants are more important than her welfare. Either it hasn't occurred to her to take care of herself, or she doesn't think it's important. Either of those is a good indication of low self esteem.

[Rowdyboy]

8. Please listen to Yardwork

I agree with her, basically word for word, especially on the dangers your friend is exposing herself to. She is opening herself up to a lifelong world of hurt for the privilege of dating a man who probably is exploiting her because of her naivete.

And you are a good friend.

[amazona]

30. it isn't a bit unusual

When I was 18, I dated a man who was almost 30. When my mom was a teen, she married a man of 30. A great many girls, maybe even a majority, in their late teens date older men because, let's face it, young men of 18-20 are horribly immature by comparison. An 18 year old girl is physically adult; an 18 year old boy still has inches of height to add! And the mental development is similarly unbalanced.

That said, this 18 year old sounds very young. I agree with the other poster who said to give her the gift of condoms. After that, it's up to her. A lot of people that age say they are going to medical school. Most don't and many know in their hearts that it isn't going to happen. It is a fantasy, like being a singer or an actor.

[battleknight24]

36. (Original Poster) So we both agree that a mature 18 year old woman...

... would be smart and mature enough to use condoms and/or birth control?


Peace,

[Lisa]

41. especially if she wants to become part of the medical profession!

Nurses, doctors, midwives, pre-med students -- how the human reproductive system works, and all the problems that can result from STDs and unexpected pregnancies, are a major part of the training. If she's not interested in this kind of thing now -- and as other posters have already pointed out, she's already putting the guy's priorities ahead of her own -- I'm sorry to say that her chances of getting as far as medical school are pretty low.

I do know people who've gotten medical or veterinary degrees as single moms, but it's taken them a LONG time, and the workload is unbelievable. Working to earn enough to support yourself and the kid, plus tuition -- and taking classes -- and parenting. All at the same time! Teenaged women can often have a rather rosy view of what it'd be like to have a baby (and the sociobiologists might say that if this weren't the case, they'd be scared off having sex until after menopause and the species would go extinct!). But if she's as bright as you believe she is, battleknight24, she should be able to figure out how much of a problem this could be.

Doctors often have to counsel patients who are in the process of making the same mistakes. If she can get out of this fix with minimal difficulties, and learn from it -- she could yet become quite a good doctor. But if she believes she's invulnerable (or that someone will rescue her at the last minute), that's not only illogical but arrogant. Family members who are physicians have shown me that the stereotype of high-handed doctors is NOT what medicine is about -- successful physicians who are in the profession for the long haul have to be humble. This means understanding risk, and mortality, and being able to admit and correct one's own mistakes.

Good luck, friend. If she's so besotted by Mr. Won't-Take-Precautions that she won't listen to reasonable advice, unfortunately it's going to be difficult. She might well turn around and blame YOU, for not encouraging her wishful thinking. (I lost a longtime friendship over a similar kind of situation, and I am hoping that it won't happen to you as well ...)

[Ready4Change]

6. Well, you can clam up and watch your friends life go down the tubes.

Or you can tell her what an idiot she's being. At that point it's up to her whether you'll be around to watch her life go down the tubes. At 18, that 9 year gap is too much.

[battleknight24]

14. (OPH)... First, I need to convince her to protect herself and

take precautions... getting her to dump this guy is going to be a world of challenge in comparison...

[Nikia]

9. She should use condomns

Especially with an older man who doesn't want to use condomns. Something like 1 in 3 sexually active young adults have an STD. Having unprotected sex with a man who doesn't like condomns sounds risky.

[Susang]

12. You need to convince her to get an STD test

Take her to Planned Parenthood if you have to. Let them talk to her about the risks, she'll probably listen to them, particularly if you go with her to her appointment. If she wants to be a doctor, she may be more receptive to hearing the truth from a doctor.

This is a matter of life and death. Young women are one of the largest groups of new HIV infections. Syphillis and gonnorhea are making serious comebacks. Its very important that she find out if she's clean and then stay that way.

I have to say, I'm very suspicious of a 27 year old man who dates an 18 year old and refuses to wear condoms. Ideally, you want a boyfriend who wants what's best for you. I would wonder if that's true for your friend.

Hope things work out okay. This is a tough situation for you.

[battleknight24]

13. (Original Poste) Well, I'm a guy... so I feel kind of awkward about...

... going to planned parenthood with her, if you know what I mean...

Actually, I'm not sure if he "refuses" to wear condoms... they might have 'gotten it on' in the heat of the moment and not really thought about it...


Peace,

[Bridget Burke]

16. OK. You're a guy. You care about her.

Whether you feel fatherly, brotherly, or like you'd be a better partner for her than the current fool--you care.

She did confide in you. The people in Planned Parenthood can deal with STD's, pregnancy fears & even some of the psychological stuff. Just help her get to them. Don't worry about what they think; I'm sure they've seen it all.

[truthspeaker]

29. "Heat of the moment" is NO excuse for not wearing a condom

I've had a lot of sex in my day, some of it spontaneous, and I have never, ever, had unprotected sex. It's not difficult. Condoms are widely available and inexpensive. The dangers of STDs and the efficacy of condoms have been widely publicized over the last 15 years. A woman of 18 should know better, and a man of 27 does know better.

[battleknight24]

37. (OPH)... I'm not try to excuse what they did...

... I'm just hypothesizing why they didn't use protection...


Peace,

[Susang]

31. If the unprotected sex has happened four times

As you stated in your first post, then I think that's a little more pathological than just "the heat of the moment". My point being, that as a 27 year old man, he knows better, heat of passion or not. I'm not saying that he's solely responsible, but I'm having a very hard time believing that he couldn't have insisted on a condom if he had wanted to.

As far as being embarrassed about going to Planned Parenthood with your friend, I wasn't exactly talking about your being in the room with her while she's getting an exam, but merely accompanying her to the clinic. When I was going to PP for my gynocological needs, my boyfriend (now husband) often came with me. There were almost always other men in the waiting room. You would have no reason to be embarrassed, trust me.

Whatever you decide to do, I hope everything works out okay for your friend. It would be a shame to see anything bad happen to her because of this.

[shimmergal]

15. All the above advice is good, but only if she's willing to take it.

First priority should be for her to have on hand: 1) a supply of condoms, and 2) the morning after pill. Sounds like she's got a lot of other worries about the relationship, and maybe she can't deal with going to PP or a doctor at this time.

At her age, I know I couldn't have--of course that was back when a doctor was more likely to give an unmarried young woman a lecture than a prescription for birth control. Thank goodness for condoms and over-the-counter spermicides!

But if she has condoms and "Plan B" at hand, it's a first line of defense against both STDs and pregnancy.

[DemBones DemBones]

18. The trouble with teenagers is that they

don't believe shit will happen to them. It's always going to be "someone else" who gets pregnant, or gets in a wreck because of drinking and driving, etc., etc. And it's difficult for older people to get them to listen to advice for their own good. We were all like that, to some degree, when we were teens.

But you're only a few years older and she's your friend, so keep trying to convince her. As your doctor said, she's rolling the dice to have unprotected sex. Women can get pregnant while using contraceptives but the odds are much, much better that they won't.

If she won't go to a doctor/ Planned Parenthood, tell her to use a spermicide (a foam or jelly that she uses before having sex) AND get him to wear a condom. Those two combined methods can be as effective as taking the pill, with no risks to her, PLUS she's protected against STDs and AIDS. And of course condoms and spermicides are available without a prescription and have instructions on the packages.

She can tell her boyfriend she's been really worried about pregnancy and she just can't have sex with him anymore unless they use contraceptives. Since they've had some sort of problem, this is a good time for her to tell him. If they stay together.

If she's been sexually abused by an older man (her father or stepfather, maybe), as you seem to hint at, she really would benefit from counseling, not to mention that she ought to report the bastard to the police.

[battleknight24]

39. (Original Poster) Pardon my french... but what the fuck makes you think...

... she's been sexually abused?


Peace,

[izzie]

19. Why is a 27 year old having sex with an 18 year old kid?

In this society you maybe of age by 18 but you are not ready to make some silly plans. Like being married, having sex with grown ups that would know better, joining the service and killing yourself or others.You still planning your life.

[Misunderestimator]

27. Well, 18 is grown up. The real question is... Why unprotected sex?

[lazarus]

20. reminds me of an old joke

Q: What do you call a woman who practises the Rhythm Method of birth control?

A: "Mom"

Pulling out is the same thing, IMO.

[Pert_UK]

21. Your friend is 18, wants to be a doctor, but is having unprotected sex...

That's worrying. An unplanned, unwanted pregnancy at this time could determine the whole course of her life, or at least have significant impact on it.

First, she needs to become a lot more aware of the risks she's taking, and be strong in herself.

Second, she needs to think about how this relationship is working - if this guy is pressuring her into unprotected sex then is he really someone worth spending time with? Does she think he'll stay around if she gets pregnant? Would he be willing to trade his "young model" in for a mother-to-be?

This sounds bad to me, and I think you need to get your friend to think long and hard about things. There is NO good reason to be having unprotected sex at 18 - is the older guy just pressurising her into it and happy to discard her when she gets pregnant?

[REP]

22. Tell Her To Dump Him NOW

Except that I made damn sure not to get pregnant, I was this girl. I was with a moron that much older than me from 17 to 26. When I got to be about the age he was when he met me, it occurred to that only someone with major problems would date what is essentially a child.

She may not listen; I know that I thought it was odd that even *his* friends were telling me to run like hell, but I was 17 and knew everything. Then I got older and was embarassed by the huge mistake I had made. Then I grew up and threw his ass out. Thank god I got out without being burdened with a child or getting legally bound to that loser.

That was back in the day when the worst STD was herpes. Now we've got AIDS and new and exciting varieties of incurable Hepatitis. It's a lot more dangerous than a baby ruining your chances at a decent life and meaningful career or marrying some bozo who will ruin your credit forever - she could have all that PLUS a death sentence.

Tell her. If she won't dump babyraper, then at least make sure she doesn't find herself saddled with the enormous burden and toil of a baby or AIDS (or both). She may not wise up for a few years about her Mr Wonderful, but do what you can to make sure she comes through with as little harm as possible.

[Heddi]

35. isn't the term 'babyraper' a bit harsh?

I mean, she *is* 18, and that makes her a legal adult---hardly a 'baby' and hardly 'raped' since the sex (according to the OP) is consentual.

He may be a sleaze. He may be treading on dangerous ground by not using protection. He may be a cad, a heel, a total asshole.

But, as a victim of rape, I think calling someone a 'babyraper' when they're not raping babies (or anyone) is really really out of line and does everything to diminish the impact that REAL rape has on REAL victims.

Not every man who is an asshole to a woman is a rapist, which is what you seem to imply by your post

[REP]

43. Nope

I, too, have been raped - when I was 4, so you don't need to lecture me, but thanks anyway. "Rape victim" is not the sum of my identity, so I fail to get my panties bunched when someone doesn't walk on eggshells because they might possibly offend me in some imagined way.

No, babyraper is a colloquialism for a much older man taking advantage of a young woman, as the babyraper in this case is.

[Gryffindor_Bookworm]

38. My experience parallels yours...you are exactly right. eom

[jukes]

23. self-denigrating behavior

sounds like she's being manipulated by a selfish control freak.

if there are others in your circle, have a sit-down w/ your bud & confront her, harshly.

or send me a cashiers check/mo for $500+airfare and i'll resolve the problem!


:bounce:

[MissMillie]

24. Ask her if she really understands what she's saying when she says

"a risk worth taking".

Make sure she knows how hard it is to be a single mom, or to abort a fetus, or to give a baby up for adoption. I know of no woman who takes these decisions lightly, and I know of no decision that doesn't come w/ some sort of consequence.

[onebigbadwulf]

25. You put her on the pill and pay for the prescriptions

But uh, she's probably already got some STD if she's been doing a 27 y/o. The guy won't use condoms that's for sure.

The best advice, I think, is for her to break up with this guy.

[battleknight24]

40. How much does it cost... I don't have tons of money...

.

[Misunderestimator]

26. Oh man... I have a friend who got HIV...

after a short relationship with a guy a few years ago. Same story... unprotected sex. She's still fine now, and actually met someone since then who she married (and they have protected sex). Your friend MUST be made aware of the VERY real danger of unprotected sex.

[SarahB]

28. I have hardly been around, but this post compelled me to respond.

I was 18 when I met my now husband, who was 27 at the time. We moved in together shortly before I turned 19. In the BEST of circumstances, it's hard. We used condoms until we moved in together (Jan 1991, just before I turned 19) and I went on the pill because we were both monogamous and free of anything. I had some problems with the pills I was taking (and didn't realize that I should have just switched types, but that's another story), so we went back to condoms. By May, he was chronically complaining about the condoms, so on a couple of occasions, I agreed to the "pull-out" method just so I didn't have to hear the complaints (stupid, I know). Guess what the result of that was? My daughter. While I love my daughter immensely, basically, getting pregnant at 19 derailed my goals for some time, in a sense- forever to an extent. I could have had an abortion, but I felt like from both him and my family (and my own ethical confusion then at the time after years of Catholicism), I couldn't and have one human left in the world who would be there for emotional support if I made that choice.

I made the best of everything for many years. I was and am a loving, responsible (dare I say selfless) mother, continued with school and work part-time (not quite doing as much as my intellect was capable of though), had more children, and for the most part, my husband has been a good man and father. I really stopped thinking about myself and concentrated on being supportive to him in building his career and raising a family because I thought that was the right thing to do in the situation. A few years ago, though, when some things started to go wrong because of choices he made, I felt stuck and unprepared for what was happening and it all sort of hit me. A man this age gets with a girl that young because he's insecure in my opinion. Really young girls are able to pump up an ego and more willing to be a doormat, put his needs ahead of her own, etc. Not all young women, I know, but probably a greater percentage than those who are in our late 20's or older. While the age difference isn't such a big deal now (now at 32 and 41), I realize I made or in a sense felt forced to make these heavy commitments before I knew who I even was and it's hard to deal with my resentments even though he has made a lot of strides to clean up his act again this past year (and his career stuff is going very well) and I know he still loves me very much. I think now that what should have been a nice love affair turned into much, much more than it should have been.

Anyway, I'm not sure what my point is other than there are greater things involved here- potential future of herself, potential children and their needs, etc. Even taking STD's out of the equation, she needs to go on effective birth control and NOW. If she doesn't, Mother Nature will make her choices for her and someday, in all likelyhood, it'll all come back to bite her in the ass if she feels as trapped as I feel at this very moment (not that I will be forever, but for now, it's the reality I made and for that I blame myself just as much).

[MsUSA]

33. *hugs* SarahBelle

[SarahB]

42. Thanks, but...

Don't feel too sorry for me. I don't really want anyone too. I made choices at the time too. No one forced me into anything. It's just that when one is older and wiser, one realizes errors that were harder to see when they were younger.

[doctorbombeigh]

32. If she's not using protection, she's trying to get pregnant. n/t

[slutticus]

34. "Pulling out" does not...

...prevent pregnancy. I know this for a FACT.

Not to mention the risk of STDs.

Give your freind a pack of condoms. At 18, she should be able to understand a statement like "If you fuck without a condom, you WILL get pregnant". It's only a matter of time.

And the STDs! What will it take?

[Rhiannon12866]

44. Tell her the truth about her risk of intended pregnancy

Is this something that she can live with? I cannot believe that anyone is not aware of all the options available to them in the 21st century. There are so many, yet this sounds like she still has the mentality of the '50s and could "get in trouble." A nurse I met told me that young people were much more upfront about these things and openly discussed STDs, let alone birth control, before entering into anything, these days. I guess she was wrong, more's the pity. Ask her if she plans to be a mother at 18 and give up her plans to be a doctor. Her plans don't look promising if she's not even aware of precautions that she can take to prevent unintended pregnancy.:shrug:

Good luck with this. You are a good friend.:-)