What's with this Penn and Teller show on Showtime?

[alarimer]

They are on an anti-environmental tear about recycling. I think I will turn the channel because they sound like Oreilly or Stossel.

[politicat]

1. they have made this point in several commentaries....

and it's not so much anti-enviro as pro-skeptical. Hell, Michael Moore has made the same point.

The fact is that sometimes your recycling does end up in the landfill.

Pcat (who is pretty sure they're not OReilly types... just hard-headed and skeptical.)

[ScreamingMeemie]

2. Agreed...Our recycling guys told us that our stuff ends up in a landfill.

Kind of takes your heart out of it, but I carry on. :hi:

Remember the little girl who followed her "recycled" lunch trays...right to the dump?

[DieboldMustDie]

3. Penn seems to be a libertarian.

Don't know about Teller. :shrug:

[gmoney]

4. It makes a bit of sense

I think some things are not practical to recycle because of the huge energy waste to transport, sort, clean, then melt down. I think they say aluminum cans and paper make sense, but most everything else is a false economy.

I've always thought that should be the work of our prison labor... sorting through garbage for purposes of recycling and reclaiming useful stuff and preventing harmful stuff from getting into landfills. I guess the problem with this is prisoners finding contraband and such in among the trash...

P&T are out to debunk, and seem to be willing to go after sacred cows on both sides. Maybe if they could devote a little more time to debunking something truly evil, like supply side economics, it would be a better use of their time and talents.

[EstimatedProphet]

17. Unfortunately, that's the point

I've seen several episodes, and they always pick the liberal issues to debunk, and very often unfairly. They're Repubs.

[ProfessorGAC]

18. I Don't Agree

I don't agree that they pick liberal issues. They pick hot button issues. Sure, they hammered PETA, but they did have other highly dedicated animal rights activists who were just as dedicated to animals as PETA, but didn't condone violence.

They did one a guns and HAMMERED the NRA. Not exactly a liberal issue, there.

Penn is definitely a liberterian, not a republican.
The Professor

[EstimatedProphet]

20. Yes, they pick both liberal and conservative issues

But, from watching the first season, they had more liberal issues than conservative ones-survivalism and guns are the only conservative issues I caught. I admit there are a lot of politically neutral issues they address too-weight loss comes to mind-that on the surface may tend to make it look skewed one way or another depending on a point of view; some may take some of the neutral issues as politically charged where in fact they are not.
I think what bothers me about the show more than anything else is their approach. Regardless of whether it is a liberal issue or a conservative issue the are addressing, they have a tendency to pick as representative of the issue people that often look, well, kooky. I think it sometimes trivializes the issue. For example, one of the shows that bothered me was on environmentalism, and the majority of people interviewed fell into what is commonly thought of as the "hippie freak" type-they didn't include a single interviewee on the side of environmentalism who could succinctly express the views of why conservation is important without drifting off into the "well like y'know" land. In particular this hits close to home for me because I am a biologist and environmentalist, and it disturbed me that we were being represented as kooks, in contrast to the "serious expert" at the Cato Institute. On the conservative end, the survivalism show features none other than Hal Jordan, the fanatic Apocalypticist. There are a lot of people that go to survivalism schools simply because they want to learn how to live in the woods. Even though I thought they lambasted (appropriately) Jordan in that episode, it seemed to indicate that people interested in learning how to live in the woods are kooks.
Penn's politics don't concern me. I just get the feeling that the show is slanted, regardless of direction.

On edit-going back on my original post, after I thought a bit about what everyone in the thread said.

[ProfessorGAC]

24. OK

Looks like now we're debating style not substance. That's ok. You don't like the style, and i do! Perfectly acceptable difference of opinion. Different strokes . . .

One humorous note: As one who thinks roughing it is staying in a hotel that has the remote control bolted to the night stand, i would agree that people who want to live in the woods are kooks!
The Professor

[Cush]

5. I enjoy the show but....

with some episodes it's obvious that they pick people that fit into their point of view.

Example: The Season 1 ep on UFO's. They went to some random UFO "Convention" and talked to people. Now, I'm a big UFO and buff and all, but even I didn't believe the people they had on the show. The ones they chose were "way out there"

[Comicstripper]

6. Penn and Teller

I'm tired of defending these guys.
If you find them offensive, you're too sensitive. If you think they're conservative, you're an idiot. Sorry.
I'm tired of people thinking that conservative/liberal is dictated by what your positions are on the issues. I contend that what makes you liberal is WHY you hold those positions...what factors influence you. I really can't expand on this theory now, it's hot and I'm cranky. I will however, clear some things up. Teller is a Libertarian, plain and simple. Penn (the tall one, who talks) is probably an independent and may not vote. They are both very smart men, good at what they do, and they're genuinely out to root out bullshit in whatever form it takes. They ALSO have done episodes attacking the drug war and Christianity. The reason they oppose recycling is b/c it's ineffective and does more harm than good. In fact, Penn shows a picture of himself at an environmental rally and talks about how idealism is sexy and fun and OK as long as it's not doing damage. The two are both socially very liberal, economically probably less so. They believe in a strong environment, equality, freedom....just differently than you. But we all have the same goal. So shut your mouth you reactionist windbag.
Thank you.

[anti_shrub]

8. If you don't mind

I'm going to copy that, substitute "Matt and Trey" for "Penn and Teller" and post that every time someone starts a "South Park is republican trash" thread.

Just because someone who enjoys taking the piss out of folks sometimes hits a target you like doesn't make that person a nazi freeper.




*edit* me kant speel0r too gewd....

[alarimer]

10. I had never seen it before

And frankly it just sounded too much like John Stossel's crap for my taste. But I guess I will have to watch an entire episode sometime.

[LTR]

15. Stossel's a whiney snot!

"Penn and Teller: Bullshit" is great!

The New Age episode was classic!

[Comicstripper]

11. Oh, Please Do

By all means. I whole-heartedly agree with you about South Park. Good show, incredibly bright, very original. Comedy Central is home to a surprisingly high concentration of good shows (South Park, Daily Show, and Chapelle's Show), and a disappointing selection of crappy ones (MAD TV and the '80s teen comedies they insist on showing every fifteen seconds..."Weird Science" my ass....).

[Susang]

25. A small correction

Penn Jillette is also a Libertarian. He has voted for Libertarian candidates by his own admission, attends Libertarian Party functions and is active in the Cato Institute.

Examples:

In 2000, I couldn’t tell the difference between Bush and Gore. Really — I saw no difference at all. I voted Libertarian. I was happy because, in my mind, the Libertarians won. Everyone was voting for the “lesser of two evils.” No one voted for Bush or Gore — everyone voted against Bush or Gore and that’s Lib-ertarian. See? I’ve had this rose-colored psychosis for a few years now.

from: Dubya's Happy Message to Me, PDF File Link: www.cato.org/pubs/regulation/regv26n4/v26n4-final.pdf

Teller: Oh. None of the above. I am Libertarian. Democrats and Republicans - well it's kind of like a "magicians choice" - two identical incumbent organizations pretending to be different so that we will vote the same old mob back into power. I think our only hope is to support intelligent third party candidates.

http://www.theadvocates.org/celebrities/penn-teller.html


Penn Jillette's activities and interests range far beyond card tricks. He covered the 1992 Republican national convention for the Comedy Central cable channel and continues to serve as the network's official voice. He writes a monthly column for PC Computing and is involved with the Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal, a skeptics' organization that investigates allegedly supernatural phenomena. And he's one of a few celebrities known to have voted for the Libertarian Party presidential ticket in 1992

http://reason.com/Penn.shtml

Libertarian Party member Penn Jillette (l) -- shown here shaking hands with LP National Director Ron Crickenberger -- stopped by party headquarters in Washington, DC, for a visit on October 31st.

http://www.lp.org/lpn/9801-Jillette.html

And another article of note:

http://www.self-gov.org/jillette.html

[Nomad559]

7. Penn and Teller are Heathens

:evilgrin:

http://www.celebatheists.com/entries/atheist_17.html#6

http://www.celebatheists.com/entries/atheist_36.html#2

:evilgrin:

[politicat]

9. and we're proud to count them in our ranks.

:evilgrin:

Pcat (who is very much a heathen, thank you very much. Also, an apostate and a heretic.)

[Bill McBlueState]

23. good quote from your first source

'No matter how much they put "10 Top Scientists Talk About Why They Believe In God" on the cover of TIME magazine, you kind of have to look and go, "How come these 10 top scientists are all teaching at community colleges?"'

:evilgrin:

[Marvelous_Smarty]

12. Their Show

on the folly of the Drug War was eye opening.

[newyorkdork]

13. The one on the bible

was hysterical!

[mitchum]

14. God, I wish that they both did the silent schtick

smug pricks with semen-spattered copies of "Atlas Shrugged"

I like their little magic show, though

[minkyboodle]

16. damn right

spotting an Objectivist randroid from a mile away is a skill indeed. I especially liked on their anti-environmentalism show how they presented Patrick Moore without any qualification that he is a paid consultant for the timber lobby. This type of thing is par for the course for the show. They stack the deck in their own favor and are dishonest as hell with their "experts." Sure they are great when they are talking civil liberties or drug law but wait till they speak on economic, environmental (and I'm not talking about the recycling episode see s1: Environmental Hysteria), or labor issues.... silly randroids. They do have a great magic show as you said though.

[Burma Jones]

19. Their Bible show is magnificent

Here's a nice quote from Mencken:

"An Idealist is someone that thinks because roses smell better than cabbage, they're also more nutritious."

Penn and Teller are great de-bunkers and the idealists on both the left and the right are in sore need of de-bunking.

[arwalden]

21. I Loved Them. --- You're Correct, Their Bible Episode Was A Keeper

I've saved on DVR and whenever I find the time, I'll make a VCD out of it.

-- Allen

PS: ELVIS-DIDN'T-DO-NO-DRUGS!

[AngryAmish]

22. Recycling is a corporate run joke

Where my dad lives they are supposed to recycle paper, plastics, glass and aluminum. It was sold about 10 years back as a Waste Management scare tactic, ie we are running out of landfill. That way they can bid up their price of landfill (said to towns - We are running out, buy space while you still can). Then they sell recycling as an alternative. Well, guess to either runs the recycling program (waste companies) or sells consulting to recycling programs of town or cities (waste companies).

Because of the energy cost of recycling, very few things make sense to recycle. Aluminum definitely.

Bottom line, don't believe everything you hear just because it confirms your prejudices. This is as true in the environmental sphere as in any other sphere.