Do you believe JFK, Jr.s death was an accident or pilot error.

[genius]

He was reportedly doing research into his father's death on behalf of his magazine at the time he died.

[enki23]

1. what about john denver? they almost got *him* too

.

[Octafish]

5. Odd thing to say.

JFK Jr. was the political heir to the nation's Liberal first family. Doesn't it seem odd that his father is killed by assassins, none of whom were brought to justice? Doesn't it seem odd that his uncle Edward is almost killed in a plane crash that killed his pilot and broke his back? Doesn't it seem odd that his uncle Robert had a chance to become the Democratic nominee and was shot dead by bullets that don't match the gun in the alleged assassin's hand? Doesn't it seem odd that JFK Jr.'s plane would go straight into the drink on a trip he'd made many times before. No, that doesn't seem odd to me. That seems like conspiracy.

BTW: Noam Chomsky has consistently supported the lone nut Oswald did it theory proposed by J Edgar Hoover.

Have you seen this FBI memo? It states George Herbert Walker Bush had something to add about the assassinatio of President Kennedy, written on November 22, 1963?



Very interesting. Now a week later, this FBI memo to FBI Director J Edgar Hoover indicates that "Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency" reported the anti-Castro Cubans "regretted the assassination." Neat choice of words.



When it comes to JFK, anyway, Chomsky is wrong.

[genius]

13. I have no doubts that Sr. knew the people who killed the father

That's why the files are unavailable - to protect the Bushes.

[goclark]

17. Sr. knew them because he arranged it IMO

Think about it! This is 2004, tell us the name of the man that has been right in the middle of power in Washington since JFK. There is only one name that remains consistent, GHWB.

Always working behind the scenes. Always looking totally innocent. Crying at Reagan's Memorial(crocodile tears)Letting us believe that Cheney runs the WH.

Appointing Clarence Thomas,a dummy, to the SC.
Stealing the election so that his son,another dummy, can be President. Huum, why would he take a chance on two dummies? He took that chance because HE was able to get them to do whatever he wanted them to do.


Didn't MM say that GHWB is the only President that reads the CIA briefings? Didn't MM say that all of the Presidents are entitled to read them but GHWB is the only one that DOES read them.

What is it that so fascinates this more than 80 year old man?
Why would he spend his time reading CIA stuff when his own son is the President?
Why isn't he playing golf or reading or looking at TV?

Did he have JFK Jr. killed? I doon't want to believe it but I would put nothing pass this Nazi. Nothing!

[JVS]

29. I'm sure it was a GOP operative who got Denver drunk and...

then had him fly.

[napi21]

2. It was definately pilot error. Bad weather & inexperience.

I still feel bad that he's gone, but he knew better, and decided to take the chance.

[PinkTiger]

4. I don't remember the weather being bad.

I remember it as being that he wasn't used to flying with instruments and it was dark.

[genius]

8. The sky was clear. They claim the lights confused him.

[KittyWampus]

24. The Sky Was NOT Clear That Night

as my post below says... I live on eastern Long Island and we get similiar weather to New England cause we're so far out into the Atlantic.

[Spider Jerusalem]

3. Accident.

He was flying at night, in bad weather, without another pilot. He hadn't logged much solo flight time, even less at night, and practically none flying under instrument conditions. He died because his wife was a shrew who insisted that he fly back that night without regard for the weather, and because he didn't have the spine to say "no".

See there are a few paranoiacs about...two words. "Medication" and "therapy".

[jdj]

No, I think Lauren held them up.

She was late, I believe.

[T Town Jake]

18. I agree 100%. I think this was a "conspiracy"...

...of "one," namely JFK Jr.'s inexperience as a pilot. I believe it's high time some folks realized that not every tragedy is some kind of "plot" with political implications, just bad luck and/or timing.

[mhr]

6. For Those That Are Not Instrument Rated Pilots, It Is Very Hard To Imagine

how quickly your mind will trick you into thinking up is down, down is up, right is left, and left is right.

Regrettably, JFK Jr. got into a situation over his head.

I have flown in visual conditions over large bodies of water and know firsthand how the loss of a good horizon can lead to vertigo. Fortunately, I have extensive instrument experience to fall back on and prevent a loss of airplane control.

Until one experiences a situation where your mind says you are flying straight and level when in reality you are turning and descending, it is hard to believe you can be tricked so easily.

Hence, this is why every commercial airline pilot is instrument rated.

[Momof1]

10. Would you leave your wife use a cell phone on a plane trip? n/t

[mhr]

11. I Don't Understand Your Question As It Relates To Instrument Flying

eom

[My Pet Goat]

14. It must be freaky to pay attention to what those little gauges..

are telling you rather than what your own senses are telling you.

[mhr]

27. Yes It Is Very Disconcerting At First

Eventually, you begin to ignore your senses and trust the gages.

I had one memorable departure out of Denver Centennial two years ago.

The Captain had flown the approach in to minimums and while we were on the ground the visibility decreased and the snow intensified.

We had the plane deiced and taxied out to the runway for departure.

It was my turn to fly.

The runway was covered in snow with only the runway lights for guidance. We accelerated down the white runway, rotated and instantly were in the soup.

One second everything is visible and three seconds later you are on the gages. It was a rush.

One has to learn to adapt near instantaneously between the visual and instrument world.

Truth be told this is what most pilots live for, the days the weather is bad and things get interesting. Otherwise, good weather, preferred by passengers, gets pretty dull.

[bhunt70]

30. Interesting stuff mhr, I had no idea.

[DrWeird]

36. Alright, I'm no pilot...

Let's say he had no visibility and was actually slowly descending instead of flying level. Wouldn't that be indicated on the vertical speed indicator, and would not an even amateur pilot have noticed (given he had nothing to look at out the window)?

[onehandle]

7. What about Bush?

The Pretzel, the Segway, and Two Bicycle Accidents!?

Moderate Republicans obviously have targeted him for termination.

[goclark]

22. Do you mean they want him to self destruct?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

9. It always amazes me how few 'Don't Know' answers there are.

How would I know?

[Floogeldy]

12. Murder

Just like Abe, John, Martin, Bobby and Wellstone.

They have no problem with killing.

[Seabiscuit]

19. Agreed

And GHWB has been in the center of the storm from the beginning, in the CIA when JFK was assassinated.

[goclark]

31. Bingo GHWB is the man to watch

[Piperay]

15. JFK Jr. got same 'treatment'

as Wellstone. :-(

[AntiCoup2K4]

25. So did Salem Bin Laden

Osama's older brother and the financer of Junior's first (failed) company, Arbusto Energy. Salem was an experienced pilot who one day took an unexpected sharp turn into some high voltage power lines immediately after takeoff. This was in 1988, so it's feasible to say that if Osama does really hate America (as opposed to being an active CIA agent to this day), it could very well be because he believes his old friends in the Bush Criminal Empire murdered his brother.

[goclark]

32. Are you saying that Osama could be with the CIA

because I had never thought of that angle.

It is truly amazing that Bush flip flopped and said so what if we don't find OBL. It is hard to believe that with all the Shock and Awe of the BUSHCO we have not found this man yet.

Maybe they never intended to find him??

[fujiyama]

16. There are many strange things

about JFK's death that have gone unanswered. That is why I find the whole lone nut Oswald theory a little too convenient. That said I'm not ruling it out, but I think the story is much more complicated.

However I don't think his son's death, Wellstone, Carnahan, or John Heinz were murdered. It's definetely possible but I haven't really seen any good reason to conclude there was foul play involved in these cases. Small planes aren't very safe so an accident isn't necessarily too farfetched.

If anyone has some evidence to the contrary I'd be interested in seeing it. It does seem awfully strange when you look back over the years and you see the liberal senators that have been killed in plane crashes: a moderate republican replaced with one of the most far right senators in the senate, a popular liberal senator is replaced with another RWer, a popular governor that was about to be elected, whose wife was elected over the current AG, but eventually falling back to the GOP in a special election, and finally the son of one of the most popular presidents that was seriously considering a run for the senate. Of course there are some more -- Ron Brown (was that his name?), the Clinton official whose plane crashed.

So It's definetely weird. The outcome of all except one incident (the JFK Jr death) had an immediate positive result for the GOP. The GOP took a senate seat back in MO, MN, and PA (well they replaced a moderate with a RWer). Even in the case of JFK Jr., the outcome may have been different. He may have ended up running for president one day...it's hard to say. He had the looks, the charisma, and was very well liked by the people of the city and the nation on the whole.

[Solomon]

20. Jr. was planning to run for governor of New York as a springboard

to the white house. When republicans start dying in small plane crashes, I'll start believing they're just accidents.

[AntiCoup2K4]

26. John Heinz was a Republican

So was John Tower. Admittedly, I don't know the circumstances of Heinz' death, because I never really heard of the guy other than his being Teresa's ex husband. But Tower was investigating Poppy, so the motive there is obvious.

[Eloriel]

33. Heinz was a detriment to the Bushes in some way

I don't remember the details (and don't seem to have a link), but I don't think his death was unintentional.

On Edit: Okay, so I googled. There's a 1991 Newsday article posted here, with this preface by the poster:

Sen. John Heinz was one of the good guys
by repost Thursday, Jul. 01, 2004 at 1:46 PM
this former well loved senator(and former husband of Theresa Kerry) died in a plane crash...hmm that sound's familiar "He was the peacemaker of the Republican Party," He stood up to Reagan declaring that ketchup was a condiment, not a vegetable. He stood up to Cheney one week before his untimely death. George Sr declared him a close friend of the family.

http://www.indybay.org/news/2004/07/1687638.php

Another copy of the Newsday article here:
http://vikingphoenix.com/e2004/kerry/heinz.htm

[goclark]

37. Bingo! Up pops Poppy again!

I did not know about the connection between Poppy and Tower.

It just keeps rolling and rolling into a Poppy Ball of Wax.

Just for starters,

Poppy - JFK
Poppy - Reagan ,oops didn't work
Poppy - Tower connection

These are the dots we are connecting,what about the unconnected dots?

[petronius]

34. Plane crash deaths

Here is a partial list. There looks like a string of Rs in the middle. Not that this proves anything either way, but it does look like there are streaks in the party/death time line...

(On edit: I'm voting for accident - weather/pilot error - in the poll)

[never_get_over_it]

21. Now do you mean

Johns Forbes Kerry JR or John Fizgerald Kennedy JR - just wondering and being a smart ass all at once

[KittyWampus]

23. I Live On Eastern Long Island-We Had Similar Weather Conditions

that night as we do on most nights.

The ceiling was almost to the floor that night.

Without instrument certification... it was impossible for a pilot to fly.

[Bridget Burke]

28. Don't know. Accident is highly probable, but please read this:

"She was seen to yaw hither and thither at every dark spot, however small, on the sea. . . . By her still halting course and winding, woeful way, you plainly saw that this ship that so wept with spray, still remained without comfort. She was Rachel, weeping for her children, because they were not."

No passage of "Moby-Dick" is more moving than the one in which the whaling ship Rachel searches hopelessly the empty sea for the lost whaleboat carrying the captain's son. Few television images are as affecting as the sight of those planes and ships vainly crisscrossing the waters off Martha's Vineyard in heartbreaking search of John F. Kennedy Jr. and the Bessette sisters.

Most of us no more knew John Kennedy Jr. than we knew the fictional son of Captain Gardiner. But we are nonetheless moved. There is nothing inauthentic about feeling pain at a young life cut short, at the sorrow of the bereaved. But the loss the country felt at John Kennedy Jr.'s death was more than that. It was a feeling of national loss, the kind one feels at the death not just of youth but of royalty.

If his death could persuade Charles Krauthammer to compose such an elegy it's very clear why some would consider JFK Jr a dangerous man.

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/jfkjr/stories/krauthammer072199.htm

[NightTrain]

35. Why would the right have needed to kill JFK Jr?

:shrug: