Are you a REAL man?

[trof]

Do you know one?
No, I'm not picking on anyone. If I have a bone to pick with you, you'll usually hear from me in a PM (which rarely happens).

As happens a lot here, I was inspired by something in another thread.
What's your concept of a REAL man?
As a 62 year old hetero male of the species, it's something I've never much thought about, either personally for me, or generally for the population at large.

It's kind of a running joke, but in our closest circle of family and friends I'm referred to as the "manly man". Our best friends have two sons. The dad is a brilliant physician (now retired), witty, and just a lot of fun to be with. He's just not an outdoors guy (not that I am either) or much of a handyman. When the parents thought it was time for one of the boys to know about nailing nails, or starting a fire, or grilling burgers, or cutting firewood, they'd say "Let trof teach them. He knows the manly man things.". I felt it was a compliment (I guess) but was still a little nonplussed by it. Like I said, whenever something like that comes up it's always me who supposedly knows the manly man way. Maybe it's because I'm 6' 2" and bigger than my friends. Maybe It's because I was an airline pilot, which they perceived as very dashing and romantic. Believe me, it ain't. Maybe it's because I know a little about a lot of things. The benefit/curse of being an avid reader. Whatever.

So...what's your idea of a REAL man.
Or is there such a thing?
And does it matter?
Maybe I'll chime in later with some thoughts or comments.
Thanks.

[wryter2000]

1. My definition of a real man

A real man is one who stands up for what's right and takes responsibility for himself and does the right thing for the people who love him. Plenty of gay guys -- including fathers -- fill that bill.

[trof]

2. I like that.

There's a saying something about doing the right thing even when you're the only one who knows you did.

Plenty of women fill the same bill.

[toddzilla]

4. "real men"

* never admit they are wrong
* would never cry, period
* agree that killing things is good
* would never read directions for any product
* realize that women are inferior and should be treated as such
* worship war and all things related



/sarcasm off...

[AntiCoup2K4]

3. According to Joe Jackson.....

Take your mind back - I don't know when
Sometime when it always seemed
To be just us and them
Girls that wore pink
And boys that wore blue
Boys that always grew up better men
Than me and you

What's a man now - what's a man mean
Is he rough or is he rugged
Is he cultural and clean
Now it's all change - it's got to change more
'Cause we think it's getting better
But nobody's really sure

And so it goes - go round again
But now and then we wonder who the real men are

See the nice boys - dancing in pairs
Golden earring golden tan
Blow-wave in the hair
Sure they're all straight - straight as a line
All the gays are macho
Can't you see their leather shine

You don't want to sound dumb - don't want to offend
So don't call me a faggot
Not unless you are a friend
Then if you're tall and handsome and strong
You can wear the uniform and I could play along

And so it goes - go round again
But now and then we wonder who the real men are

Time to get scared - time to change plan
Don't know how to treat a lady
Don't know how to be a man
Time to admit - what you call defeat
'Cause there's women running past you now
And you just drag your feet

Man makes a gun - man goes to war
Man can kill and man can drink
And man can take a whore
Kill all the blacks - kill all the reds
And if there's war between the sexes
Then there'll be no people left

And so it goes - go round again
But now and then we wonder who the real men are

[JVS]

5. Every adult with a Y chromosome is a real man

This whole real/not real thing is a bunch of bullshit.

[trof]

7. Now there

is an irrefutable argument.

[Booberdawg]

6. A REAL man

eats quiche. Can wear a pink shirt or tie. That's the silly stuff - but some men can't .....

A REAL man shares household chores without being asked or expecting a gold star or special recognition or reward for it.

A REAL man changes a diaper - without being asked.

A REAL man also knows how to be a gentleman.

A REAL man is not threatened by the success, independence, or sexuality of a woman, nor her willingness or ability or express it.

A REAL man is not threatened by the sexual preferences of other men. They are secure enough in their own sexuality to understand it's not an issue.

A REAL man is considerate of his family.

A REAL man is a considerate lover.

I could go on ... there are so many things that make up a REAL man ....

[JVS]

8. Sorry, but you have no right to judge what make a man "real"

just as I have no right to judge what makes a woman "real". Our likings do not determine authenticity.

[Booberdawg]

9. You have twisted the topic to suit you

The topic wasn't what makes a man "real". It was what makes a REAL "man".

Okay, let's just make this easy and I'll concede you got a fucking Y chromosome, okay?:eyes:

[JVS]

20. Ok fine, parse words. You have no right to judge what makes a real man

and to prescribe what action he should or shouldn't engage in. Nobody gets to make those decisions. Just as nobody can say what makes someone a real American, a real woman, or a real human being, according to a system of values. These things are already well defined without bringing our values into the decision making process.

[Booberdawg]

25. Hey I didn't ask the question!

Don't bust MY chops!!

But I stand by my opinion of what I consider a REAL man. Your lack of appreciation notwithstanding. I'm not the one parsing words here.

[luckyluke]

10. I can drive a stick-shift...

Take that you automatic transmission pussies! :silly:

-ll

[Booberdawg]

11. Was that subliminable or Freudian?

you ornery dog you!:evilgrin:

[Aristus]

12. I love the Japanese definition of a real man, in this case, a samurai.

Excells at horsemanship, the sword, the bow, unarmed combat, and endurance of nearly any hardship without complaint.

Now here's the catch: A real man also excells at:

Poetry, music, flower-arranging, the tea-ceremony, calligraphy, painting, theater, and impeccable manners. Pretty far from the American WWF-ideal of what a real man is, don't you think? I love and respect Japanese culture.

[FireHeart]

14. A culture that no longer exists.

My spouse was stationed in Japan. Your samurai culture doesn't exist anymore. Perhaps it once did, but many Japanese men do like to fondle schoolgirls on the subways (hardly polite), and dominate their wives and have very little interest in poetry, music, flower arranging, etc.

On the positive side, they no longer are permitted to lop off the heads of peasants who were a little too slow to bow. Nor do most of them slit their bellies because they lost an account to a competitor.

:)

[Aristus]

15. Thanks for those good points.

I wasn't referring so much to the present culture. I was bemoaning the fact that 'real men' once did not have to conform to a narrow ideal standard. For example, I was a tank crewman in the Army, a tough, greasy, hard, muscle-bulging, backbreaking job. Macho time, right? But because my peers knew I liked classical music, poetry, Shakespeare and fine wines, I was looked upon as a girly weirdo. What's up with that?

[FireHeart]

16. Now that...

Is something I'll never understand. I am a fairly good auto mechanic, but I love to cook. I like flowers and waterfalls (hehe Japanese water gardens thrill me) but I also like poetry, the classics and non-confrontational relationships. Classical and "New Age" (sometimes called 'private' music) are some of my passions.

I can't answer your question because I just don't know why it needs to be asked. A man is whomever he choses to be. Just as a woman is. Trying to cubbyhole men is as useless (and as stupid) as anything else you can name.

[trof]

18. Kind of my point.

Or one of them.
I think a real man, or woman for that matter, is one who is anything but cruel or uncaring.
I think "REAL man" is kind of passe.

[dawg]

13. Don't make me post those Boston lyrics again. n/t

[oneighty]

17. ???????????

Real men: Do not watch 'The Man Show'.

I guess.

Being a real man is hard work Trof.

IMHO

180

[Blue_Chill]

19. A real man? that's simple

not afraid to get his hands dirty, honorable, responsible, stands up for what he believes in, honest, and defends his loved ones.

Violent men that get a lot of ass are morons. The REAL men out there don't get the spot light but they are heros to all that know and depend on them.

[Kamika]

21. Heres a 21 year old girls definition of a real man

A real man is a man who takes care of his partner and wants to protect.

He is Very nice and sweet and a good father.

He always strive to make life great for his family.


I cant think of much else.

[HEyHEY]

22. A real man - same as a real human

My best example of this is, well my Dad (cheesy knob turning up now.) My whole life he worked 16 hour days as the owner of a company that barely survived. I never saw him, he left by 5:00 am and didn't get home till 8:00 at night. Sometimes he slept on the office floor in a sleeping bag and woke up to a meal of root beer and baked beans. But he did it all for his family, he lived a hell of constant work to support people who he hardly got to see. Then when I was twenty, we were having some drinks on the sailboat. We started talking and he actaully apologized for never being around. I couldn't believe it, he damn near killed himself trying to support me, then he apologizes for it? Why? Cause he never felt he was doing enough for other people. Now that's a man.


I told him I had never held anything against him for it, then we broke out in tears.

[Forkboy]

23. nah

I was made with preservatives and additives :)

[HEyHEY]

24. Here's the poem you were thinking of trof...

If
By Rudyard Kipling

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream—and not make dreams your master;
If you can think—and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two imposters just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools:



If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: “Hold on!”

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings—nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And—which is more—you'll be a Man, my son!


Damn right!

On edit: Actually that's a lot to live up to...kipling musta been a real hardass