You wouldn't believe what I heard in church this morning!!!

[Cheswick2.0]

First let me tell you that even though music is what connects me to religion most powerfully, and we have a great music program, if the sermons weren't good I probably wouldn't stay. I think of all the churches I have ever attended, the Pastors at this one give the BEST sermons.

Anyway, as my Pastor was talking about how God loves everyone, the business owner and the homeless teenager, the person in the wheelchair and the world renowned dancer etc... he says "God loves Saddam Hussein and George Bush equally, they are both his children..."

I thought people would fall out of their pews, but no one did. I'll bet some people will have a few choice words later.

[Sperk]

1. both are nuts and have caused thousands of innocents deaths

so really, how could he pick a favorite?

[smallprint]

2. i wonder which one has killed more iraqis

[arcane1]

3. Bring on the Christian Left!!!!

:toast:

[Cheswick2.0]

11. I remember when I went to the Million Mom March......

How surprized I was to see a whole group of people with Presby t-shirts on. I thought "how cool is that". But my church avoids politics, we are a very diverse group.

[TheReligiousLeft]

17. I'm here!

I'm here. Last week my pastor busted out an anti-10C's in Secular places. This week she had the best sermon ever, about the Seraphonician(sp) woman, she touched on the Divinity/Humanity of Jesus, then did a wonderful job about inclusiveness. Beautiful!

[CarlBallard]

4. Wow

That's wonderful.

[trof]

5. My favorite hymn:

Jesus loves me, this is true.
But he loves me better than he loves you.
;-)

[patrice]

6. What a brave man!

Evil is relative. The bad that those folks in the pews are responsible is, relatively speaking, equal to any other bad.

Saddam's evil shocks us more, but at least on a theoretical level, subsidizing a government that takes advantage of the poor kills something in people that is just valuable as life, PLUS these "walking dead" go on to damage others.

[noiretextatique]

7. i find bushco's brand of evil far more shocking, actually

since hussein and others just like him are simply tentacles of the beast.

[noiretextatique]

8. my minister says this kind of thing all the time

she also says bushco is ultimately for our good, since all conditions are ultimately for our growth and good. they key is to stay above the madness, spiritually, i suppose.

[StClone]

9. When I think of how this world would be better

I think of the much maligned Catholic Nuns. Their noble vows to do without earthly possessions and to serve in the ways of the church... aid the poor, be humble etc.

They would say the same. Saddam is a child of creation, as is Bush, pray for them equally.

And I find church music and mass singing as moving and highly recommend it!

[patrice]

10. I think Good is relative too.

The good that the nuns do/did is of no greater value than what a lot of ordinary people do every day, but even less for it because they aren't labled "holy".

[wtmusic]

12. Isn't Christ supposed to forgive all?

(Forgive me, I'm not a Christian)

[Cheswick2.0]

13. yes and that was the point

He was not pointing out that bush was as evil as Saddam, quite the opposite I think. He was saying that we should not judge who is or is not more loved by God. God loves all of us and sent his son to claim all of our sins...even Saddam.

[regnaD kciN]

15. Yep...

In fact, in Eastern Orthodox theology, it is considered appropriate to pray that even Satan may repent, that he may be forgiven and reconciled.

:wow:

[Generic Other]

14. That's just WRONG

God does not care about Bush.

;)

[Lydia Leftcoast]

16. Surely God wants

Bush to repent his evil ways--for real, this time. :-)

[nuxvomica]

18. Ironically, the love of God and the love of a dog are both unconditonal

I believe the former and know the latter.

[CBHagman]

19. During the first Gulf War...

...I recall reading a prayer someone in one of the Christian churches had written for BOTH Saddam Hussein and George H.W. Bush. I also recall a Catholic priest making a sermon on the concept of a just war in the months before.

Jesus said we are to bless those who curse us and pray for our enemies. It is a truly difficult thing to do, and I have found that it's easiest for me to pray for Bush when I feel pity for him.

I do not find it a bit hard, however, to pray for the safety of people like Paul Bremer and Donald Rumsfeld, as I truly fear for their lives, given the current situation and the possibility of sudden attacks.

Bush's tendency to label people as "evil" makes me extremely uncomfortable, because I feel he uses it as a way of covering up his own motivations and plans. He's got no business making moral judgments for the lot of us. Does he believe he performs no evil? Does he believe God has appointed him judge, jury and executioner? Apparently he does.

What's most frightening of all is the degree to which Bush's actions beget more and more instability and horror for the world, rather than cleaning up the mess and building solutions. God help us all, given that Bush deems himself the leader of the free world. God help us all.

[Cheswick2.0]

22. Did you ever read PEOPLE OF THE LIE?

It is a very interesting book about good and evil and how we misinterpret the words. It was written by Scott Peck, they author who wrote THE ROAD LESS TRAVELED.

[JanMichael]

20. Poverty? Any solutions? Charity?

Any systemic change suggested?

Just curious.

Happy you had such a fine time!:-)

[Cheswick2.0]

21. sure we hear about that all the time

Poverty and charity are standard topics at my church. Are you Assuming we don't?

[WilliamPitt]

23. "they are both his children...naughty, naughty children"

:)

[Cheswick2.0]

24. if they were my kids

I think I'd move away and not tell them where.