Ever worked for a college or university?

[trof]

Helping my son-in-law with a job search. He's an attorney fed up (for several good reasons) with his firm. I've found a couple of openings for in-house counsel at major universities. At first blush, reading the employees benefits sections of the websites, they look like good places to work.

Any personal experiences you'd like to relate?
Pros-cons-pitfalls?
Thanks.

[sinkingfeeling]

1. Now with University of Arkansas....

I am retired from IBM and believe I have better and less cost sharing on my benefits here than at my old employer. Sure is a lot less stressful as well.

[trof]

4. Thanks, sinking

and welcome to DU.
One place STARTS with 4 weeks of vacation. Good medical/dental, etc. Sounds like a very "family positive" place which is something he needs right now. Got a 15 month old toddler who doesn't see his daddy near enough.
:hi:

[Beetwasher]

2. Benefits are usually terrific

Lot's of vacation time and good retirement/investment packages. Also, usually pretty casual places to work. Usually good job security too.

The drawbacks are the possibility of having to deal with tenured professors/faculty who may be obnoxious and demanding.

[disgruntella]

7. i second that

I worked two years at a state university, one year at a private one. "Obnoxious and demanding" can apply equally to faculty and students in my experience, but it doesn't sound like that would apply to your son-in-law's position.

The other downside in my experience was do-nothing administrators who spent half their time on the golf course. But I also met a lot of terrific people - students, faculty and staff alike.

And I agree that the benefits were good - I sure miss having dental coverage. Benefits can also include discounted admission to university events -- sports, arts, etc.

[trof]

10. Thanks to you and b.w.

I sure am hearing a lot of what I wanted to so far.
Jeezus, he'd LOVE to spend more time on the golf course.

[Wickerman]

3. Worked for Uni's in two states

Once, doing menial type stuff for about a year and 1/2 and that rocked at 21. The other employment, years later, was in professional capacity, under the office of the President. It was good stuff. Lots of time off (holidays and downdays) in addition to generous vacation. Good retirement. In house counsel? I'd say the work pace would be reasonable if you compare to corporate or even other govt employemnt. The pay may not be comparable, but that would be a tradeoff. 45 hour weeks to 75?

[trof]

6. Pay listed is a "range based on experience"

that covers what he's making now.
You're dead on about the 75 hour week. That's a part of the problem.

[Wickerman]

13. Reading the other posts

and if it matches pay it seems a no-brainer. I wish him well cuz it seems like a dream job and one you would never look back from.

:toast:

[MUAD_DIB]

5. My GF works for Harvard.

The pay is usually lower at Universities/Colleges than in the private sector, but they tend to have better bennies i.e. nearly free tuition.

They tend to weather the economic tides a little better.

They are also more conservative than private sector jobs, but since your S-I-L is a lawer then that may not be too much of an issue.

I worked for the University of Maine some years ago and liked it.

[trof]

8. Breaking cover a little,

but BINGO! That's one of the places. For obvious reasons he's got to keep this planned career change as anonymous as possible.
I'd be glad to hear more about Harvard either here or in a PM.

[slackmaster]

9. Yes, at U of California

Pay was low but excellent benefits, very low stress.

I make SHITLOADS more money in the private sector but could get downsized at any moment.

[trof]

14. He and I talked yesterday.

One thing I cautioned about was private U. as opposed to state.
State U.s are subject to budget cuts, just like every other department and this ain't a good time for state budgets.
Private U.s are generally well endowed without as many money worries (I think?).

[Xithras]

18. Not really a worry

They'll cut gardeners, security, grant program staff, TA's, and administrative assistants before they'll ever get to his level. A position as internal counsel is fairly untouchable...state uni's will start cutting faculty before they'll lay off lawyers (and I've NEVER seen a faculty layoff!)

[monarch]

17. Definitely encourage him!

When all my friends were working the long hours and making the big bucks, I worked happily and productively in the public sector. I had a number of very interesting jobs and at one job I had contact with the university counsel. Each person who held the job was smart and very satisfied with his life. I retired before I was sixty with excellent benefits and a secure pension. Every single person I know in private practice envies me now.

[HereSince1628]

11. I knew one that went from corporate counsel to fund-raiser then to Pres

of one of the many "Podunk" colleges of Iowa.

He knew absolutely nothing about the academic mission of a college but the business-type trustees loved the fact he had been an attorney and a fund-raiser. He had all the typical perqs...free home, automobile, travel/entertainment allowances, on top of a pretty good salary.

I suppose the sky is the limit if you son-in-law is a go-getter.


As university counsel I can imagine issues ranging from setting up auxilliary enterprises, detailing language in gift bequests, futzing with contract/arbitration issus in employee relations, to litigations regarding injuries of people on the campus and interpretation of federal and state laws regarding performance and eligibility of funds.

[Xithras]

12. Yep

I'm sitting in my college office as I type this :)

The good: Strong union environment that generally fosters unity among the employees, great benefits and vacation, low stress environment, general sense of well being knowing that you are contributing to the improvement of the next generation of mankind.

The bad: Higher-ed pay generally sucks when compared to the private sector and raises come in tiny increments. Faculty belong to a different and competing union, leading to an adversarial and highly politicized atmosphere when dealing with them. Some students will aggravate the heck out of you, and you ALWAYS have to be nice to them...even the young Freepers holding on-campus anti abortion demonstrations. Even though you are on campus, you are not really a part of the campus...faculty and staff are often prohibited from participating in student organized political rallys and demonstrations. This can be pretty frustrating when you want to run out and join them...or scream at their stupidity ;)

[ProfessorGAC]

15. Yes.

It's highly political. That's why i never pursued it full time, but just did adjunct work. Also, the whole publish or perish thing seemed stupid to me. If i wanted to teach, i'd teach. I wouldn't want to take a teaching assignment and then spend my time letting TA's do the work while i spent all day in the library or my office.

But, as an internal counsel he wouldn't have to worry about the latter, and i guess everyone in any business worries about the former to some degree.

So, it might very well be a good fit.
The Professor

[MissMillie]

16. Currently working at HBS

The upside: I work w/ terrific faculty and encounter some of the nicest people on the planet when I have to interact with their colleagues and mine. The benefits are AMAZING, especially if you can build up some longevity. I've been here 17+ years.

The downside: first-year HBS students are under some pretty good stress, and hence, are not fit to participate in society. A high percentage of them often forget their own names, rarely read instructions, and fail to acknowledge the existence of the other 999 students in the same program.

(It's no wonder GWB managed to get a degree here.... he managed the stress quite well and was able to blend in....)

[trof]

20. HBS-Harvard Business School?

Takes me a litle while to catch on. The dubya* clue did it.
He's looking at the university attorney position. Got his cover letter and resume in last Thursday. The position has been open for a while. Hope they haven't filled it yet. If you hear any gossip please pass it on. He and Iuliano went to the same law school so I'm hoping that'll be kind of an icebreaker.

[MissMillie]

21. Yep...

I don't generally keep up w/ those positions, as I work for faculty rather than admin, but if I do hear anything I'll let you know. (Actually, I have a colleague who used to work in the General Counsel's office.... hmmmm.....)

[trof]

22. I'd ask you to go steady

but Mrs. t. would have my guts for garters.
:loveya:
I would seriously TREMENDOUSLY appreciate anything you can find out.
I'll be strictly confidential about my "sources", natch.
Damn, DU is a good place.

[trof]

19. A very big general THANKS to all.

Didn't know this would be such a "hot button" topic.
You guys are a huge help as always, just as I expected.
I'll send the website for this page to him this evening.
He's at the point where he's more than ready for the change.
Now it's a matter of finding a place that will hire him.

[BiggJawn]

23. Lower pay, "politics", crappy bennies...

And I wouldn't work anywhere else.

I'm tellin' ya, Trof, the most stressful thing I have to deal with most days is "do I want to take a training ride to the North, East, South, or West?".

We're non-union here, no dental bennies, and we have our share of do-nothing administrators and dept. heads, but it beats living the "Who STOLE my Cheez" life.

[trof]

24. Just a kick for the evening crowd.

Again, many thanks for all the responses.
I can always count on you guys.

[Yupster]

25. Used to work for a college (jr. college)

best benefits I had ever seen before or since.

[mlawson]

26. Watch out for state budgets!!!

For public schools, of course. The admin uses the budget woes to justify cuts where there shouldn't be any, but OTOH, when they want to spend money, they always FIND some!!! It's politics as usual, and it can get VERY dirty!

So, if your son inlaw wants out of the rat race, he might find himself in a different kind of one, at a university.

[MissMarple]

27. Here in Colorado Springs, Colorado College and its sister consortium

schools give free tuition to the children of their employees. They can cross enroll At Pamona College, McAllister, and several other small liberal arts schools that all have good reputations. They also have a good health plan for full time employees.