Yaay! 3 machine gun robberies in my area Saturday night!!

[underpants]

http://www.wwbt.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=WWBT/MGArticle/WBT_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031778324769

A community is on edge after three robberies in one night. It all happened late Saturday in Richmond's Fan District.

Police believe one man carrying a machine gun held up residents around the North Boulevard area, and even shot one of them in the hip.

Meanwhile, police are trying to calm the fears of residents in that area by trying to help them avoid being a crime victim. Police say if possible, don't walk the streets alone at night.

They also suggest traveling light. Shoulder bags are often a target. And they say sometimes just walking with confidence is a way to ward of an attack.

[commander bunnypants]

1. man

move

DDQM

[demnan]

2. Great - our lax Virginia gun laws at work!

n/t

[skylarmae]

7. more like vagina laws?

[BOHICA06]

3. And they know it was a Machine Gun, how??

Was there a tell-tail burst or are they just guessing?

[underpants]

9. This is Richmond my friend

One person says it and there is either a huge argument over it or everyone starts embellishing on it.

If you watch the video there is a guy who says he heard it, it might have been a Tech9 (sp?)or something like that.

[MrBenchley]

4. Good thing pResident Twitchy and the GOP

put assault weapons back in the stores, eh?

(By the way, be prepared for a bunch of trigger happy folks to fuss about what is and isn't a "machine gun")

[sui generis]

10. don't worry - the gun dungeon trolls rarely leave the dungeon

so who gives a crap about splitting hairs. Pull trigger, shoots lots of bullets. Got it? Call it what you want, it's legal to have now.

I spent an unproductive afternoon here with someone expounding to me how utterly impossible it was to buy an assault weapon off the street.

Eat crow dude - these must therefore be completely legal. . . !

[MrBenchley]

11. Exactly so...

"Pull trigger, shoots lots of bullets. Got it? Call it what you want, it's legal to have now."
And it's a win-win issue for Democrats...even a majority of gun owners agree those weapons do not belong on the civilian market.

One wonders what kind of specimen reads a news story about a series of robberies and a person being shot...and wrings his hands publicly that the gun involved is being maligned.

[Radius]

19. Always been legal, AWB was smoke and mirrors (nt)

[MrBenchley]

20. Too bad the gun lobby itself showed that claim's horseshit

when they tanked their own disgraceful immunity from liability (the get away with murder) bill rather than risk a renewal...

[Radius]

24. What did the awb ban?

[MrBenchley]

37. Feel free to look it up....

But the claim that it didn't do anything, or that it was only cosmetic, was revealed as crap by the gun lobby itself...

"WASHINGTON - Senate Republicans scuttled an election-year bill to immunize the gun industry from lawsuits Tuesday after Democrats amended it to extend an assault weapons ban and require background checks on all buyers at private gun shows.
The National Rifle Association began pressuring senators to vote against the bill after Democrats won votes on the two key gun control measures. The 90-8 vote against the bill virtually ends any chance for gun legislation to make through Congress this year.
Underlining the importance of the day to Democrats, presidential contenders John Kerry of Massachusetts and John Edwards of North Carolina broke away from the campaign trail to cast their first Senate votes of the year, joining the 52-47 majority on the assault weapons ban and the 53-46 majority on the gun show bill."

http://www.thebatt.com/news/2004/03/03/News/Senate.Republicans.Scuttle.Gun.Bill.After.Losing.Votes-624076.shtml

[Radius]

57. Don't need to

That is the poison pill tactic. Bill is amended with a provision that makes it unpassable. Unrelated to AWB not being renewed.

Unless someone got bayoneted this is a silly discussion.

[MrBenchley]

62. Gee, it sure passed in the Senate...

and you'll notice in the House the gun lobby is fighting to keep it from coming to a vote...

"Unless someone got bayoneted this is a silly discussion."
Hey, what about that RKBA crap isn't silly AND dishonest? Especially the claim that the AWB covers only bayonets....

As I showed, the gun lobby itself demonstrated what horseshit that claim is.

[Radius]

67. Yep

Bayonets, flash suppressors, and folding stocks. Large cap mags before a certain date. Since there were millions of them made this was pointless. It banned cosmetics not functionality. It is done there is no more vote, AWB is gone.

It was feel good law. He look people we are doing something to make you safe without really doing anything. "assault weapons" were not banned. They were manufactured and sold through the ban.

This is way ot anyway. Some moron writer who has probably only seen a gun in a movie choose the term "machinegun" because it sounded cool.

We may want to take this conversation up elsewhere, the lounge may not be the best place..

[MrBenchley]

69. So the claim that it wouldn't pass was hooey...

As is the claim that it's a feel good law. But thanks for confirming that gun manufacturers evaded the law...they're a scummy bunch who need to be regulated much more closely.

"Some moron writer who has probably only seen a gun in a movie choose the term "machinegun" because it sounded cool."
Or perhaps, like so many sane people, the writer really doesn't give a crap for the minutiae of gun porn.

[slackmaster]

14. The expired assault weapons ban had nothing to do with machineguns

Pull trigger, shoots lots of bullets. Got it? Call it what you want, it's legal to have now.

You are misinformed. Any firearm that discharges more than one round per trigger pull is legally a machinegun. Machineguns have been strictly regulated since 1934. The now defunct category "assault weapons" covered semiautomatic firearms only; mutually exclusive from machineguns.

Please read and learn:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/index.htm

Edited for spelling.

[sui generis]

18. who fricking cares.

Not arguing about machine guns. Please read and learn.

[slackmaster]

21. I can't let such a grievous misstatement stand

Repeating bad information like that reflects badly on all of us. I can't allow it to go unchallenged.

[sui generis]

22. it's off topic which gunjeoners are really good at doing

in addition to "cut and paste".

Most people who live in suburbs and big cities really don't know or care what the difference is. That's the point. I actually do know the difference, so your lecture is wasted on me. Without coming across as a "gun grabber", the really real reality is that it doesn't matter what is shooting the bullets - they make you just as dead, and the more of them coming your direction, the less chance you have of survival. That's the point.

And I know I'm not the first one here to think that assault weapons AND machine guns have absolutely no place in modern civil society.

[RivetJoint]

26. Then don't buy one

[sui generis]

31. hey let's legalize cocaine and heroin too

you don't have to buy that either.

[RivetJoint]

32. A. I have no problem with that

B. Show me where buying drugs is a constitutional right.
C. Nice strawman.

[sui generis]

36. what are we arguing about again?

speaking of strawman arguments.

It's always this way with you guys. Hey we're in the DU Lounge, not the gun dungeon. Aren't there more fulfilling places to troll? Do any of you really think you're going to change anyone's mind, ever? Seriously. Why do you bother? Why don't you just give up?

What kind of nightmares do you guys have? A bunch of whacko liberals knocking on your door trying to collect all your guns? Must wake you up in a cold sweat, and it should.

I think all we can do is mock each other and I'm sure we can both piss just about as far, so maybe on to other topics?

[-..__...]

39. "Hey we're in the DU Lounge, not the gun dungeon.".

"Aren't there more fulfilling places to troll?"

A few knowledgeable and informed gun owners post certain facts and voice opinions that you disagree with; therefore they must be trolls.

That's an enlightened, open minded attitude (so much for a "civil" society, ehh?).

As far as posting in "The Lounge".... errr, well, maybe... just maybe it's because the originator of the thread posted it here?

No matter. More often than not these type of threads are eventually relegated to the Gun Dungeon.

[sui generis]

44. okay sorry about the trolls

it's not like I haven't gone trolling myself in your hood sharing my overpowering enlightenment and knowledge :smoke:, only to discover that there are equal numbers of "open minded" people there telling me to skedaddle back to the lounge.

I think we're pretty evenly evil on both sides of this fence.

[RivetJoint]

41. It's a gun thread

one upon which you leaped with gusto.

No, a bunch of whackos knocking on my door trying to collect my guns is not a nightmare; it's a wet dream...

[sui generis]

45. last stand at Waco - !

Except I'd be the one knocking on the door . . . better keep some fire extinguishers handy though. As I recall that wet dream ended badly.

[RivetJoint]

47. That wasn't a bunch of whackos,

that was the Federal Government I know, I know, all the same to you.

[Radius]

33. Sounds good to me..

Why fight something that can't be stopped? Regulate it.

Perfect example of what would happen if all firearms were banned and prison time mandated for possession. People still deal drugs even with the threat of prison and violent death.

How many phone calls would you have to make to find some coke?

[Radius]

27. What about

a glock 17 with an 18 round mag?
or a remington 870 with a extended mag?

Or a bolt action rifle with a scope, like the one used to kill JFK?

[-..__...]

28. Where exactly is this "modern civil society" you speak of?

Inquiring minds would like to know.

[sui generis]

29. right here in America

It is a modern civil society. Where do you think we are, Afghanistan? Would you like a warlord with your fries?

[RivetJoint]

30. Nope, just some ammo

for my AR-15....

[-..__...]

35. "right here in America It is a modern civil society"

Really? Could'a fooled me.

"Would you like a warlord..."

No thanks. We already have one sitting in the Oval Office.

"with your fries?"

<Homer Simpson>

Mmmmmmmmm.... "fries"!!!!

</Homer Simpson>

[sui generis]

49. one overpowering common thing about gun posters

is your love of cut and paste.

I guess by your standard this isn't a democracy either then, because your warlord wasn't elected.

Please make your case succintly that this is not a modern civil society, or else stop making absurd comments.

(edited to be less confrontational, believe it or not)

[MrBenchley]

40. Our trigger happy pals....

They seem to think it's a drawback that Baltimore isn't more like Baghdad...

[RivetJoint]

42. Been to B'more lately?

[MrBenchley]

50. Yeah, I have....

And only a blithering idiot would pretend that one of its problems is that there isn't enough firepower among its armed denizens...

[RivetJoint]

53. It's the fact that B/more

is filled with blitering idiots to which I am referring.

[slackmaster]

34. Your statement in reply #10 suggests you don't know the difference

I don't understand your reaction here. I offered you some concrete information. If you aren't interested you could have politely thanked me and told me to take a hike, but you not only haven't acknowledged your error you are now claiming that you actually knew the difference and intentionally posted misinformation.

I expect that kind of behavior from George W. Bush, not from a fellow DUer. AFAIK nobody ever got booted from DU for telling the truth.

[sui generis]

54. sorry, I'm behind

it's kind of fun battling the entire dungeon here in the lounge but some of these just get away from me.

Another thing you guys obsess on (indistinguishable from freepers) is "misinformation". It seems like it's a personal crusade to give us all the "right" information, and we will magically come to our senses.

It's silly to think that I will ever change your mind, or vice versa. We both think we're equally correct, and we both won't hesitate to get a sly jab in as often as possible.

I say, let's have a beer and move on. :toast:

[slackmaster]

63. It's way too early for a beer here

Because I collect and shoot guns as hobbies it's imperative for my continued liberty that I understand what is legal and what is not. I don't expect you to take my word for it. If you are interested in factual data I respectfully suggest that you peruse the BATFE's Web site. It's 100% propaganda-free.

Another good source of unbiased information is Cornell University's annotated copy of the United States Code. It was last updated in August before the federal assault weapons ban expired, so references to assault weapons on http://assembler.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000921----000-.html are obsolete.

But the key point I'm trying to communicate is that they were by definition semiautomatic, not fully automatic. Expiration of the ban did not make it any easier to obtain guns that fire multiple bullets per trigger pull.

Thanks for the response. I don't really care if you change your mind about what ought to be legal or not, but I'd feel better if you understood what actually is legal and not. If everyone agreed about things there wouldn't be any point in discussing them.

[skylarmae]

5. ...AND my persnal favorite, the TOMMY GUN...........

where's a good cartoon character when you need one?

[highpitch]

6. OOF

wtg on the assault weapons ban, *

[underpants]

8. Welcome to DU

:hi:

[matcom]

12. YAY!! YAY!!

hey. tonight, around 1 am, go out and pick me up some Twinkies k?

[underpants]

13. The corner store closes at midnight

Okay ...ready? I'm going on three--cover me!

ONE

TWO

[HysteryDiagnosis]

15. Going by this logic.... there should have been little or no holdups

in the last several years.

In fact, by implication, robberies should not be able to be conducted with a standard handgun.

Taking it one step further... police should not be able to conduct their business with the 9mm they carry on their persons.

Of course we all know that none of this is true.

For me.... I'll just stick with my favorite.... hope this isn't pointed south... for "all" of our sakes....

[Radius]

16. I'll be the one

to state the facts:

AWB never banned assault weapons. You could legally buy any assault weapon during the ban in a store, from an individual, or from a business.

The AWB banned bayonet lugs and flash hiders, not semi automatic rifles that look like military guns. One pull of the trigger one shot.

select fire rifles and sub machine guns like the m-16, ak-47, and the tommy gun have been illegal since 1934. one pull of the trigger, multiple shots. Federal prison just for possession.

A machine gun is any of the above but is generally a term used to describe the type of gun mounted on a Humvee or belt fed weapon used by an infantry squad like the m-60, SAW and venerable m-2 .50cal.

[Wcross]

17. A bit of overkill- a machinegun for a simple armed robbery?

Seems to me most sane people would hand over a purse if the criminal pulled a knife.

[Phillycat]

23. Well for heaven's sake.

Please be careful!

[-..__...]

25. Black and scary looking firearm = "machinegun".

Must have been one of those "Sledgehammer" full-auto conversions of an assault weapon using a paper clip and chewing gum that the Brady Campaign keeps on warning us about. :eyes:

[MrBenchley]

38. Yeah, D_S, we're all REALLY worried that the gun not be slandered

I know you're not trying to pretend that assault weapons can't be converted...

[-..__...]

43. "can't be converted"?

Or can't be converted easily?

[MrBenchley]

48. Of course they can be converted...

otherwise trigger-happy fuckwits all over the Web wouldn't have been creaming their jeans over the end of the AWB...

[Radius]

59. 8 hours in a machine shop is the standard...

You fail to understand the AWB did not ban guns. They have been legal the entire time. Now you can get a gun with a flash suppressor and bayonet. So unless the victims were bayoneted this has nothing to do with the ban.

Do you think this person committing the crime legally purchased the weapon in the last month or so?

You can also convert diesel and ammonium nitrate into a bomb in less than 8 hours.

Both are federal crimes.

[MrBenchley]

61. Sez you...

"You fail to understand the AWB did not ban guns."
Gee, there sure was a lot of pissing and moaning about a gun ban at cesspools like thehighroad.org....not to mention at the NRA.

"Do you think this person committing the crime legally purchased the weapon in the last month or so?"
Wouldn't be anything to stop him, thanks to pResident Twitchy and the GOP, would there? And I for one can't see any fucking reason why these weapons should be back on the market....

"You can also convert diesel and ammonium nitrate into a bomb in less than 8 hours."
The Tim McVeigh gambit! Well, there's a good argument for why assault weapons ought to be in stores....in a pig's eye.

By the way, after nutso Tim (who spent years on the gun show circuit not seeming any crazier than the other trigger-happy fuckwits clogging the aisles) struck his "blow for freedom," President Clinton and the Democrats launched a proposal to aid law enforcement by putting taggants in substances like fuel oil and fertilizer. The gun lobby blocked it.

[Radius]

64. You can do better than that?!

"Gee, there sure was a lot of pissing and moaning about a gun ban at cesspools like thehighroad.org....not to mention at the NRA."

Dodged the issue, It was stupid feel good law that banned bayonet lugs, not weapons.


" And I for one can't see any fucking reason why these weapons should be back on the market...."

They were NEVER off the market, you could buy a perfectly legal ar-15 the ENTIRE ban, and a 30rd hi-cap as well!!

"President Clinton and the Democrats launched a proposal to aid law enforcement by putting taggants in substances like fuel oil and fertilizer. The gun lobby blocked it."

Prove it. Link. Did they propose to tag Nitric acid and toluene as well? Black powder and pipe end caps? More stupid feel good law.
If it was killed it was probably a farm lobby since tagging fertilizer would cost money and be passed on to the farmer. Do you have any idea how much fertilizer is used in the US?

[MrBenchley]

68. Everybody can do better than this tired dishonest RKBA crap....

"It was stupid feel good law"
Horseshit. The gun lobby itself showed what a pile of crap that claim is.

"They were NEVER off the market"
If that were even close to being true, then there was no reason not to renew the AWB...but in fact the NRA and gun loonies were near apoplectic at the thought it would be renewed.

As for Clinton's proposal and the NRA, here goes.

"The NRA opposes a government initiative to require that black powder be chemically tagged for later tracing. Various European countries do this and have used it to solve hundreds of bombings.
The NRA beat back a provision on taggants in last years' attempt to pass an antiterrorism bill. Now, in the wake of the Olympics pipe bomb, another taggants bill is before Congress.
The NRA's release on the topic follows the classic "the law hurts us, it isn't needed, and it wouldn't work anyway" path of the group's initiatives on laws banning armor-piercing bullets and semi-automatic weapons. The NRA claims that "This proposal could have a huge impact on the safety of the shooting sports, and deserves a very strict cost-benefit analysis by independent scientists, not Clinton Administration bureaucrats." "

http://www.spectacle.org/996/taggant.html

"After 3½ months, lack of evidence still frustrates the investigation into the bombing during the Olympic Games in Atlanta. The only good news concerns the effort to catch future bombers.
The new federal budget bill funds a study of whether taggants can trace explosives in bombs like the one that blasted the revelers in Centennial Olympic Park. Law enforcement has favored this sensible policy for years, but the powerful National Rifle Association has blocked the measure.
Law enforcement officials have tried for nearly two decades to persuade Congress to pass a taggant law. President Clinton has consistently supported the idea. The NRA and its allies, however, have resisted putting taggants in gunpowder and has resisted even allowing the federal government to study their use. The NRA claims that taggants will raise the cost and lower the quality of gunpowder, and that federal law enforcement agencies are too untrustworthy to conduct an impartial taggant study. "

http://www.s-t.com/daily/11-96/11-21-96/c06op052.htm

[Radius]

70. Gunpowder != fertilizer

I repeat with absolute certainty. So called assault weapons were sold NEW by Bushmaster, Olympia Arms, Springfield Arms during the ENTIRE length of the ban.

Your posts did not have a proposed bill #.

[MrBenchley]

72. Tell us something we don't know....

Scummy gun manufacturers evaded the ban....and that by you is a PLUS?

[Radius]

73. Please

you talk in circles. The ban banned nothing. It was written by is such a way to ALLOW this to happen. It could have been amended or changed. It wasn't.

Because it served its purpose. To make people like you think it was doing something.

PS when people use terms like "machinegun" that is called technical language. Medicine, computer programming, auto mechanics all have them. When you use technical language incorrectly it makes you sound stupid. Reporters should not use machinegun incorrectly any more than they should discuss nice and renice when it comes to process management incorrectly in AIX. Laziness or stupidity are no excuse.

What kind of person what care what kind of gun was used, my concern is catching and jailing them for 25 years for armed robbery and using a gun while committing a felony.

[MrBenchley]

74. I'm not the one going in circles here...

"It could have been amended or changed. It wasn't."
You'll notice that it's been blocked from coming up for a vote....and that when the old law was allowed to sunset, the scummy Republicans who blocked renewal hid behind procedural crap.

"when people use terms like "machinegun" that is called technical language"
No, it's not.

"What kind of person what care what kind of gun was used"
The kind of person who doesn't see any reason why some fuckwit should be able to get his hands on an assault weapon. You know, liberals and progressives. It's one reason why the only public figures speaking out for assault weapons are the lunatic fringe of the right wing.

[Phillycat]

46. Oh dear.

This thread is about to become a J/PS flamefest right here in the Lounge.

:nuke:

[underpants]

51. I had no idea we had so many militia members in here

:eyes:

[Phillycat]

52. I don't know how they find them.

But they always show up whenever there's anything gun-related anywhere on the website. They must search under "gun" or something. I don't understand why they aren't satisfied with all the gun threads in their own forum. :shrug:

[underpants]

55. Oh next thing you know you will say they should have their own schools!!!

:bounce:

[Phillycat]

56. They DO have their own schools!

http://www.shootingschool.co.uk/

[underpants]

58. You have to LEARN to hate!

:bounce:

[Phillycat]

60. Heh heh heh.

:bounce:

[Phillycat]

65. They're just having their own little conversation up there.

It's like we're not even here!

[underpants]

66. Apparently so

Okay I have to crawl back under my desk now so as to avoid the rounds flying.

[Phillycat]

75. Still going!

They're the most one-track minded people I've ever met!

So, while we're here...what's new with you? :)

[amazona]

71. oh for cryin' out loud

How is "walking with confidence" going to ward off a machine gun attack? A bit of blame the victim mentality going on there in my opinion.