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I have been convicted of the heinous crime of Dog Off Leash In Park

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Ellen Forradalom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-04 12:07 PM
Original message
I have been convicted of the heinous crime of Dog Off Leash In Park
Today I appeared in an administrative hearing to defend myself against the charge of having my dog off leash in a city park. The city counsel tried to get me to cop a plea, saying I could walk by paying $125 or a day of community service, and pointing out the the fine range was $0-$500.

The hearing officer gave me a lengthy explanation of the hearing process and the standard of proof in these civil cases, which was actually kind of interesting. They only need find that the dog had left my control at some point, without establishing intent.

I explained to the hearing officer that the dog, a pointer breed, has a life's ambition of catching a squirrel, and had yanked the leash out of my hand in pursuit of such. At the moment the cops pulled up, I had gotten my dog back under control.

The hearing officer asked the city what it recommended in fines, to which the counsel replied, "$150 plus $25 court costs." A flash of irritation crossed the officer's face and he said immediately, "Let's make it $50." That's a reduction from the ticket amount, $75, so while I didn't beat city hall I did get it reduced.

Still, in a police district with open air drug markets and gangbanging in the parks, doncha think the cops have higher priorities than ticketing dog walkers?
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Beware the Beast Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-04 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
1. "Walked my dog in the hot sun,
I fought the law and the law won..."

:hi:
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Dookus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-04 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
2. sorry
to hear it. What a pain.

However, in my experience, pleading that the cops have better things to do is rarely a convincing argument in court.

I'm a dog-owner, and I think leash laws are great.
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freetobegay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-04 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I think leash laws are great also!
Edited on Fri Oct-08-04 12:15 PM by freetobegay
I have a dog as a pet & I love dogs very much. With that said I have seen dogs out in public that shouldn't be out, even on a leash!
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demnan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-04 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
3. Well he shouldn't have ticketed you for that
I have a cat who struggles out of his harness sometimes. However it does irritate me that people at my condo let their dogs run without a leash. I have to be very careful with my cats not to let them wander off the patio because of this.
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XNASA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-04 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
5. Just be thankful it didn't happen in Millennium Park.
Ritchie would have you scrubbing the "Bean" with a toothbrush.

Bastards.

Hey, we were expecting you Tuesday. Wha hoppin'?
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Ellen Forradalom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-04 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. Tired, made a nice dinner, watched debate.
sorry to let ya down
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amber dog democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-04 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
6. if we can't control our dogs - the terrorists will have won.
Couldn't the cop have given you a warning ? I guess they did not think you'd acutually contest it. I once got fined 1.00 for not having a light on my bike.
Had to go to traffic court for it.
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cheezus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-04 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
7. so long as you didn't let the dog purposefully run free
man, I hate walking through the park and stepping in dog shit. It seems like a good law, but horrible enforcement of it.

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Ellen Forradalom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-04 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. I religiously pick up after my dog
because I feel the same way you do.
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radwriter0555 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-04 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. Dogs off leash TERRIFY me. I've had my dog(s) attacked by
dogs off leash... while mine were on.

It's scary to have some big old dog come charging up while mine is tethered to me.

Dog poop doesn't scare me as much as getting my face ripped off or having my dogs attacked.

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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-04 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
8. I can relate.... having had two tickets in 3 years in Denver...
Edited on Fri Oct-08-04 01:19 PM by hlthe2b
I live close to a large park which has (in past decade) experienced a murder or two, rapes, muggings, etc. For years now, the large number of dog owners nearby have simply rebelled against the moronic dog policies that allow virtually no legal off-leash areas. I've seen as many as 30 dogs with their owners at a time during the afterwork "happy hour", enjoying each others company and always keeping the dogs nearby, in voice control, and well-behaved. The effect has also been a dramatic reduction in violent crime and theft.

Yet, while city police have continued to ignore the teen boys being lured into cars and bushes during early morning and late evening for sexual exploitation, and the overt drug deals, the city "dog gestapo" sends its stormtroopers out in vans to drive across the park at night to stop this horrific crime wave of dog owners and their unleashed dogs. Nearly running over the poor homeless sleeping within its perimeters, while literally destroying both the park's turf and hidden sprinkler systems, they send their most power-driven, undereducated, and arrogant "would-be cops" out to ticket with additional "victims compensation fees" and administrative fees compounding the already ridiculous. They even ticket those with leashed dogs who happened to be nearby--tellling them they must take their case to court to contest or be arrested. (Don't believe it? This was how I got my second ticket and while I wanted to go to court and fight, I could not get the time off (having just started another job), so I had to just suck it up and pay}. While I have yet to understand who the "victims" might be that necessitate these compensation fees, this is among the questions one does not dare ask. Just as inquiring where one might legally go at 5:30 pm during winter months when the few legal offleash parks opened as "pilot projects" are closed or why these few pilot project parks are constantly closed due to concerns over damage to turf after the briefest of rain/snow showers.

Questions--any questions are considered to be escalating threats to the "officer" or at a minimum, evidence of noncooperation which is duly noted on the ticket for court review. My first ticket occurred just before 6 AM on a dark, wintery Sunday morning, when I deigned allow my dog off leash briefly in the vacant lot adjacent to a nearby elementary school. Shocked to be approached at such an ealy hour by a large male in a white van, at a time when streets were empty of traffic and no one was around, I would likely have reflexively used pepper spray had I had it handy. As it was, I yelled at him to "stay away from me," (my exact quote) prior to realizing who he was. For this, I earned a notation of "subject used threatening language" on my ticket, preempting any real motivation for me to go to contest the ticket in court, for fear that additional charges might have been levied.

A side note to those who might wish to argue the city's reasoning on these tactics: While I acknowledge that (regrettably) not all dog owners are as responsible as those I describe and it is certainly necessary to deal with those who do not police, train, and clean up after their dog, there are compromise solutions to all of this that would avoid such nazi tactics. I favor very large fines be levied to those who don't clean up. I also think that restricting off leash activity to specific "off-hour times" in parks so as to prevent those who wish no contact with dogs to enjoy the park in their own way makes sense. Further, not all parks are large enough to safely accomodate dogs off leash, so as to avoid risk from traffic or other similar issues.

However, for those who fear offleash areas adversely impact communities, I want to point out that there have been a number of studies recently documenting that availability of nearby dog parks now joins the presence of restaurants, shopping, and artistic and cultural amenities as the leading predictors of improving property values and neighborhood desirability.

Ok, end of soapbox...
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Ellen Forradalom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-04 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. I'm with ya pal
There are a few early-morning and early-evening dog play groups in the area which flout the law with their happy, playful, well-trained dogs. I spoke with some area dog owners who told me that the officers who wrote me the ticket are notorious for paying more attention to dog owners in peaceful parks than gangbanging and drug dealing in the district's hotspots.
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radwriter0555 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-04 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. It's not illegal to peaceably, informally assemble, and proving that drug
Edited on Fri Oct-08-04 01:54 PM by radwriter0555
dealing or other crimes are taking place is VERY difficult.

Seeing a dog off leash is rather obvious actually...
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-04 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Dog owners are otherwise law abiding and don't fight them, so easy prey...
that's the bottom line. Fighting "true" crime is risky on the otherhand.
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Ellen Forradalom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-04 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Bingo.
Instant revenue for the city.
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skygazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-04 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
9. You evil criminal mastermind, you!
No doubt you are now high on the country's terrorist watch lists and will be strip searched at airports for the next 3-5 years.

I do agree with leash laws but I also think this sounds like a stupid waste of time on the part of both law enforcement and the courts. Under the circumstances, it sounds like a warning would have been more in order.

Our tax dollars at work!
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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-04 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
10. Typical liberal
Always skirting the law! :silly:
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bif Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-04 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
14. I think leash laws are great.
I can't tell you how many times while jogging or out walking I've had a huge dog chase after me. And I always hear from the owner, "Don't worry, he won't bite." Oh yeah? I've been bitten several times. Dog's can sense that I'm afraid of them. Unfortunately, these laws are never enforced where I live.
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el_gato Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-04 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
19. The institution of policing is about social control not crime fighting

It has always been thus. The merchant class created the institution of policing when people were rejecting the imposition of capitalism and commoditization. Crime, especially poor on poor crime is really not much of a concern to the instiution of policing. That is not to say that there are not well meaning police.

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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-04 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
20. I am having super major problems with a neighbor: unleashed dog
constantly coming over to my property. I will be calling the cops on her soon because I am totally fed up with her dog doing its duty here rather than her house. Also if your dog runs away and gets killed, you woill be sorry . Get a stronger leash. I am really serious. Look at another thread here on a cat that was put out of its misery by the cops when it got hit by a car.
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MaryH Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-04 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. You did pretty well for yourself
I have dogs, too. And sooner or later anyone who has a dog will have it get away from you. No matter how careful you are.

I have the best luck with plain old leashes with the handles that go around the wrist. They are the easiest to hang on to. I buy the 15 foot leads made of cloth so I can control the length easily.

Don't use those jobies that are on a spring and zap back into the case. I really burned my hand badly when it got loose and zipped back across my palm. And it is really easy for dogs to knock them out of your hand.
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HEyHEY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-04 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
21. Hire Johnny Cochrane!
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Ellen Forradalom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-04 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. If the leash does not fit, yada yada
Seriously, I think I'll live. I'll pay the fine and move on.
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