How are you celebrating Italian Genocidal Guy Day?

[JohnKleeb]

:shrug: just a nice lil poll

[EstimatedProphet]

1. What exactly is it?

Mussolini's birthday?

[JohnKleeb]

3. before I go upstairs

He sailed for the Spanish but he wsa Italian.

[benito]

4. Columbus Day.. n/t

[Droopy]

Columbus Day I do believe.

[JohnKleeb]

8. yep

[benito]

2. hey...

Why are you hatin' on us dagos? We liberated the Indians and brought them freedom.

I don't like it either.

[JohnKleeb]

6. I am not

You think I hate all english because Cromwell was?

[Bossy Monkey]

5. Haven't you heard? He was actually Catalonian

Anyway, that's the word from documentary-land. I'm not really up to researching the question in depth myself.

[JohnKleeb]

7. thats why I am a 20th history nerd

[No2W2004]

20. Right.

They pretty much disproved that Columbus was a low cast Italian immigrant, and he lied about it because he was probably serving on ships that raided the very people he was trying to get money to fund his "expedition of discovery" i.e. the Ann Coulter tour (kill their leaders, take their kids, and make them christian"

[liontamer]

44. Yeah I saw that one too.

So it's really spanish separatist pretending to be italian genocidal guy day.

Try selling furniture with that moniker.

[JohnKleeb]

46. hah

I had no idea, and to be honest, Columbus doesnt sound Italian to me.

[no name no slogan]

50. Hey, don't go pinning this on the Catalans

After all, they brought us the architecture of Gaudi, the music of Peret and "gypsy rumba", the 1992 Summer Olympics, the amazing city of Barcelona, Buenaventura Durutti and an anarcho-socialist state during the Spanish Revolution, some very good wines, and the amazing Catalan language.

Columbus isn't nearly that cool. There's no way he could be Catalan.

[JohnKleeb]

51. Ok Columbus was a space alien then

http://groups.msn.com/JohnKleeb/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=29
I know, it sucks.

[no name no slogan]

59. Hmmm, the unretouched photo reveals all!!! (n/t) :-)

[drumwolf]

9. I'll be celebrating by catching up on my calculus studying

Whatever one might think of Columbus Day, for me it's badly-needed free time since there are no classes that day, and I'm falling behind in my calculus and physics classes so I desperately need the extra time to catch up on my studying.

[JohnKleeb]

14. Its for me an oppertunity to sleep in :)

[Chovexani]

10. I'm gonna go discover my fridge

I hear there's some leftover Chinese food in it.

[maveric]

11. Bah Fungoo!

:headbang:

[TXlib]

12. Does Columbus really deserve that moniker?

Or did he just lead the Spanish, who certainly earned the reputation, to the New World?

I'm not asking to be a smartass. I really don't know.

[JohnKleeb]

13. Its my opinion that he led the ground work for the genocide

[TXlib]

17. How?

Did he take an active part in it, or did he merely point the Spaniards in the right direction?

[Southpaw Bookworm]

25. A few lines from the ship log

Taken from Zinn's "A People's History of the US."

"They would make fine servants . . . With 50 men we could subjugate them all and make them do whatever we want."


"As soon as I arrived in the Indies, on the first Island which I found, I took some of the batives BY FORCE in order that they might learn and might give me information of whatever there is in these parts." Of course, what he wanted to know was where is the gold.

"Let us in the name of the Holy Trinity go on sending all the slaves that can be sold." This after rounding up 1500 men, women, and children and putting them in pens guarded by soldiers with muskets and attack dogs, and then loading the 500 best "specimens" onto a ship board for Spain.

Later, on Haiti (where they were convinced huge fields of gold existed), they ordered all persons 14 and older to collect a certain quantity of gold every three months. When they brought it, they were given copper tokens to hanf around their necks. Indians found without the token had their hands cut off and bled to death. If they fled, since there was only a little gold dust in the water, the Indians were hunted down with dogs and killed.

So yes, TXlib, I think he had a pretty active role in the destruction of a people, how 'bout you?

[Xithras]

54. I've never held the slavery thing against him, but the Haitian murders...

Fact is, in the 1400's practically every society on Earth practiced slavery, and civilizations had done so since the beginnings of recorded history. It would be a couple hundred more years before the anti-slavery movements really took off and the concept of human rights began to take its first tenuous hold on people. Columbus was sent by the Spanish to gain wealth and riches for the Spanish government. In the 1400's, slaves WERE wealth, so it was natural for him to try and bring some back.

The killings in Haiti are a different story though. Even when slavery was simply a globally accepted part of life, the outright killing of slaves was considered to be an evil act by nearly all societies.

[Fenris]

29. In a way, yes.

Upon noting the Indian's (Tainos, from the Bahamas, now extinct) loving, cooperative and peaceful reception, Columbus concluded that "all inhabitants could be made slaves" for "they have no arms and are all naked and without any knowledge of war. They are fitted to be ruled and to be set to work, to cultivate the land and to do all else that may be necessary, and you may build towns and teach them to go clothed and adopt our customs." Columbus and his successors set up the encomienda system in which the natives would work (as slaves) for Spanish masters, which in many Caribbean and South American territories lead to the mass extinction of the Indian populations (hence the importation of slaves from Africa to fill in for them). So while, yes, the Spanish are highly responsible for the resulting ethnic cleansing, Columbus not only embraced the ideology of enslavement but also set into motion the economic system that eventually resulted in the genocide of the Americas.

[DrWeird]

33. Yes, absolutely.

He wasn't to blame for the subsequent displacement of millions of Native Americans, but he personally had several thousand killed and depopulated entire island cultures.

[Skittles]

15. working a 12 hour shift with a Jesus Freak

woe is me

[Swamp Rat]

24. I can empathize

I found solace in that I've convinced some of 'em that Bush is the anti-Christ and thus cost him a few votes.

[LDS Jock]

16. maybe giving a deadly disease to some Native Americans

or maybe just outright slaughtering them. I can't decide.

[nemo137]

18. going to University of Chicago

to decide if I want to go there or not.

[realisticphish]

19. going to fucking school

because my fucking college doesnt get out for fucking columbus day. pardon the profanity, but im just a tad bitter

:hippie: The Incorrigible Democrat

[helnwhls]

23. what must the curriculum be like..

... I mean, at a fucking school.

[Rabrrrrrr]

26. I bet "career day" is out of this world!

[realisticphish]

58. lets just say

that tutoring KICKS ASS


:hippie: The Incorrigible Democrat

[Behind the Aegis]

21. Job searching

I will be trying to "discover" a job! 16 months of unemployment sucks! Two more months and I lose my health insurance!

[helnwhls]

22. Right there with ya on the job hunt

I have decided to stop searching in my career field and am going to start looking down the food chain.

[Behind the Aegis]

31. I feel ya!

I have been doing the same! With a master's and 10 years experience, you'd think I'd have better luck, but it has not been good! Are you having any luck in the change of direction?

I find it odd that people (interviewers) want to know why you haven't had a job for X number of months. I always want to go..."Do you watch the FUCKING NEWS?!" I can't believe they are so unaware of issues facing the country!

Good luck to you!

Brightest Blessings!

[helnwhls]

38. Pounding the pavement and keeping perspective

I have been unemployed for 5 months. I am starting to be embarrassed by my resume instead of proud. Interviewers, even at McJobs, seem to work off the same script. Today I will start giving a story about some personal crap to justify the "change in my career path".

Good luck to you as well

[JohnKleeb]

27. yawn y'all I just woke up

[GiovanniC]

28. I'm Doing What I Do Every Year For Columbus Day

Slaughtering defenseless Native Americans and stealing their land.

[Bunny]

30. Gonna put some smallpox in some blankets,

and hand them out to the locals.

[CO Liberal]

32. I Had Leftover Spaghetti For Lunch

:-)

[Glenda]

34. blowing my nose, drinking tea, and eating raw garlic

[Book Lover]

35. Lobbying my fellow Italian-Americans to

change our celebration day to Dante's birthday in June. Italy has given the world so much, yet this is the man we "celebrate."

[Lavender Brown]

39. That's a cool idea, I hadn't heard that

There are many other Italian-Americans whom we could honor with a special day instead of Columbus.

[Book Lover]

41. Exactly!

I mean, what is Columbus to me? He didn't even sail for Italy. Let's celebrate someone like Garabaldi, or da Vinci, or Montessori.

[mitchum]

36. By giving free cigarettes to people of European descent...

it's how half my ancestors paid back the other half :)

[denverbill]

37. Not sure when your ancestors arrived.

But don't be too sure your ancestors were much better. My grandfather was John Alden so my relatives have been here a while. I don't have any proof they were directly involved, but between actual wars, disease, broken treaties, and theft, I'm not exactly proud of our record either.

I'm glad Columbus' 'discovery' of America made our country possible, but based on the other things he did as an 'explorer' I think it's about time to find someone else to honor.

[JohnKleeb]

47. Actually my ancestors are relatively new

We're talking like the post WWI days when they started their families.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

40. Its Indigenous Peoples of the Western Hemisphere Day!!!

:party:

[tigereye]

55. nice perspective C

how are you? :)

[Bucky]

42. I'll protest Columbus Day by writing a poem in my Son of Big Chief tablet

It will be a scathing poem, written with Indian ink.

[JVS]

43. Protesting the fact that I don't get the day off

I like days off

[MikeG]

45. PO'ing Italian-Americans by mentioning Leif Erickson.

[jukes]

48. other, kleeb

doin' the same-ole.

tx++ from the survivors of the unacknowledged holocaust, kleeber!



:bounce:

[JohnKleeb]

49. just another day in the life eh

I slept in, watched some history channel and A&E.

[NightTrain]

52. By being ashamed of my Italian heritage for just one day.

Hey, it seemed like a good idea!

[JohnKleeb]

53. Hey it seems like he really wasn't Italian

[tigereye]

56. writing in the am

squiring my son around - and introducing him to a Dem candidate as my sister phone banked for Kerry. Then we had lunch, bought some pumpkins and saw a cool old jet take off from a small airport. That was pretty neat.


and pondering now, why explorers often thought it was their right to enslave others - peaceful people with no weapons - obviously no threat. Wouldn't it have been nice if some of them had the foresight to say... "cool peaceful people, why not learn from them?"

[AngryAmish]

57. SABU!

Suicidal, homicidal, genocidal!