While I am very sad about the passing of Christopher Reeve,

[Maddy McCall]

I realize that his death has political ramifications. When stem cell research has been discussed in political circles, his name is always the first mentioned.

The Reagan family and the Reeves all fought political battles for stem cell research.

I do not think that it in any way diminishes Christopher Reeve's death to say that the restrictions placed on stem cell research might have contributed to his death.

Does anyone agree with me? Disagree?

I only bring this up because the DU rift has already begun over whether or not it is appropriate to discuss this. DUers can discuss the political implications of his death and, at the same time, offer condolences to his family and "let him rest in peace." Something tells me that Reeve would want his death to be evidence that many good people are unnecessarily dying because of this administration's moralistic posturing.

[geek tragedy]

1. Disagree.

Smacks of crass opportunism.

[Maddy McCall]

2. On DU?

[AlbertaLiberal]

3. I think the best thing to do...

Is to let his family do the speaking. If John Kerry says much more than his condolences it can be taken politically. EVERYTHING that John Kerry or George Bush say about anything will be taken politically this close to an election. I think the best think to do is trust his wife and family to say what needs to be said in terms of stem cell research and the differences between John Kerry and George W Bush.

[Maddy McCall]

6. Yes, I agree.

Still, I think DUers should be allowed to discuss whether or not they think that Bush's obstacles contributed to his death.

I am sure that his wife will speak out soon. She has been a very vocal advocate for SSR.

[yvr girl]

12. I don't think Bush contributed to Reeve's death, but those like him

We may have found the last 4 years of the Bush regime to have been long, but in medical research terms it isn't long. It's unlikely that a treatment/cure would have been found, tested and approved in time for it to impact Chris Reeve at this time.

Bushes policy is impacting people in the future. The little boy who's 6 now, and who will be injured in a car accident on his way home from college etc. Research is a long term proposition. The delays that occur on the front end, delay the outcome we are all hoping for.

I agree that it would be crass for Kerry to make political hay out of this tragedy. If Chris Reeve's wife choses to speak, her words will have great impact.

[LordshipLadyship]

14. Reeve

If he were in Kerry's shoes (and he isn't good enough to polish them )Bush would use this whether or not Reeve's family agreed to it or not. If Christopher's death is to mean something can come to fruition, stem cell research has to continue, and the only hope it has to continue is Kerry being sworn in as president. This is a sad 'October Surprise' indeed, but all of us here know how important getting Bush the hell out of the white house is. I'm certain Reeve would want this. I hope Kerry does honor his friend in this way. This is a fight we have on our hands, and we have to use any weapon we can to be the victors, folks. It's that simple. No, it isn't pretty, but it's true.

I did not want Christopher to walk again this way, it's tragic. but we need this. We know what the other side is like. They wouldn't know ethics if it bit them on the ass, unless it had to do with money and power. We can't afford to lose. We can kiss our nation goodbye if Bush wins.

So I agree.

Fly, Christopher. You're free.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

33. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[serryjw]

4. I TOTALLY agree!

He would have wanted it!

[JimmyJazz]

5. i don't know. I can't think in those terms at the moment. I am sad for

the man who truly believed he would one day walk again and who gave hope and inspiration to all those in his same situation. :cry:

I'll mourn today and think about politics tomorrow.

[Maddy McCall]

7. I can do both tonight....

Mourn and consider the political implications.

[JimmyJazz]

11. mourning should transend politics at this moment. Again, tomorrow

all bets are off, but for now, this is a non-political issue. Republicans and Democrats alike mourn this person. A much admired and respected man has passed. I'll talk about stem cells tomorrow, for now, I'm just going to cry :cry:

[Maddy McCall]

21. If that is how you want to handle it, fine, but don't expect everyone...

at DU to adhere to your ethics. And no one should admonish another because he or she wants to discuss the larger implications.

[JimmyJazz]

31. I'm so sorry if it came off that way - that was not my intention at

all. Sometimes these darned black & white words just don't convey the inflection in one's voice. Please don't be offended, I meant for no one to share the same feelings and I'm terribly sorry if you took it that way.

Donna

[Maple]

8. The Dark Ages Have Returned

whatever namby pamby fringe DUers say.

Either you are for science, or you are against it.

Simple as that.

[sandnsea]

9. Let his family decide

Just like the Reagan family decided. That's the best way to handle it. And for heaven's sake, if his wife decides to speak, defend her and don't let them do a Wellstone on her. No matter what your personal opinion is.

[Maddy McCall]

10. I am referring to DU discussion.

I think it is fine for us to discuss political implications on DU.

Of course his wife will speak about this, and soon, I suppose.

[sandnsea]

18. Yeah, me too

It's not our decision to make, it's his family's. Whatever they decide, I go with. I don't see it as political fodder for DU until his family decides whether they want to speak publicly or not.

[Maddy McCall]

20. Then you and I aren't in agreement.

[sandnsea]

22. stem cell research is one thing

Going off on a tangent about how much John Kerry should use Reeve's death is not appropriate. I've seen some of that already. It's wrong. Talking about stem cell research, in general, is different.

[4morewars]

13. FUCK the republicans !!!!!!!!!!

WHEN are we going to stand up to these bullys? WHEN? WHEN? WHEN?
We are in the mess we are in because we don't stand up to them. We didn't stand up to them when they stole the election in Florida. We didn't stand up to them when they were ramping up the war machine. We didn't stand up to them when they smeared our guy's military record.
WAKE THE FUCK UP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They are going to do whatever it takes to see their agenda carried out !!!! Are we still going to be arguing about FUCKING STEM CELLS while they steal the next election??????????

[Maddy McCall]

15. I am at a loss on how to respond to you, except to say that...

those "fucking stem cells" are damned important to many people. Reeve's death is associated with stem cell research. Are you saying that as a DUer my discussing Reeve's death and stem cell research inhibits me from discussing "other important issues?"

[4morewars]

17. No, that's not what i'm saying

I'm saying that we need to stop worrying what the right wing spin machine is going to say or do, if we politicize Mr. Reeves death. It doesn't really matter if we politicize it or not, they are going to say we did either way. Christopher Reeves was all about using his plight to gain support for something that should be a no brainer.
Look at the wellstone funeral, the man was a lifelong politician and activist, people are going to mention these things at a eulogy. That is the nature of a eulogy. Look at how the bush* campaign spun it. They have no morals whatsoever. Nothing is beneath them. They will do WHATEVER IT TAKES to see their goals accomplished.
Look at how they ripped Sen McClain, are you aware of the methods they used ? HE'S on their side, and they attacked him mercilessly. With lies that they pulled out of thin air !!!
Look at how they attacked Max Cleland !!! The man lost three limbs in VietNam, and they used every disgusting tactic in the book, until his campaign was destroyed.
Look at how they use religion as a political tool. I'm not sure if there is anything lower.
So i guess I'm saying that we need to stop playing by their rules, where the bar gets lower and lower with every issue. And we are left trying to scurry under the bar, to kiss up to scoundrels and charlatains. Instead , we need to raise the bar. Let us make them defend their ridiculous policies and underhanded tactics. And when they start spewing shit, let's point it out for what it is.

[Maddy McCall]

19. In that case, I agree wholeheartedly.

Yes, they use dirty tactics, and I am sure that the radio talk shows will begin the accusations tomorrow. I agree that we should not control our rhetoric because right-wing neocons will use it against us.

[4morewars]

25. I am glad we are on the same page !

I didn't mean to attack you in my previous post. My rant was aimed, instead, at the people who seem to live in some far away land, a land where everyone is nice, a land where lives are not on the line everyday. A land where both sides play by some fairy tale rules, and good always triumphs over evil just becuase all the fairy tales end that way.

Thousands of us have died, millions of jobs are gone and not coming back. The crippling debt sets new records everyday. Millions of us have no access to even shitty healthcare. The press is a propaganda machine. The country is more divided than it has ever been. Dissent is considered a crime. The list goes on and on. All this in under 4 years !

Stem cell research will be the least of our worries if this bunch gets 4 more years. Or eight years. Or any more years. The USA that we used to live in will be gone, probably never to be seen again. If we don't want this to happen , then we need to change the way we play this game called politics.

We need to see to it that these people and their ilk never again gain power in this land.

[mvd]

16. I see nothing wrong with grieving and thinking about politics

We were all hoping he could live a full life, and the politics is all part of it here. It was a feat to survive for nearly 10 years without the research.

[Bluebear]

23. I think stem cell will be his lasting legacy

Not politicizing his death at all, but maybe some hearts will be moved. Maybe some votes will come in. Maybe a famous personality and the hell he went through will change minds....

Goodbye Superman. :(

[NightOwwl]

24. My feelings exactly.

He was a true hero. May he rest in peace.

:cry:

[hlthe2b]

26. I can't separate how sad I feel from how much I regret ....

what could have been. I so wanted to see Reeve be the one to transcend everything we ever thought was possible and actually be able to walk again somehow, some way.

So, it is impossible for me to grieve without feeling a loss for Reeve's dream. That there is a political reality to that can not be denied. Reeve held his frustration and anger at the politics behind the decisions behind use of embryonic stem cells in check so as not to risk obstructing any sense of progress, but it was present nonetheless. Reeve would not have felt exploited at all to have his loss be mentioned in a political context. He made it clear that he felt his own experience was his gift to those who now and in the future suffer a similar fate. It would please him, I am convinced, if his loss resulted in a change of policy. He wanted that to be his legacy.

RIP, Chistopher Reeve. May he now be whole, healed and happy for all eternity and his family find peace and comfort from that thought. So very many will NEVER forget him. We are all the better for the courageous example he set.

[Maestro]

27. Considering Kerry mentioned Reeve in the debate

about stem cell research, I'll bet he'll mention it again.

[Guaranteed]

28. While I think using Reeve as a motivating force toward

stem-cell research is a good idea, we need to be very careful to NOT give the impression that we are blaming Bush in any way for his death, or even using his death as a rallying cry for electing Kerry.

That's my position.

[REP]

29. The Restrictions Did Not Contribute to His Death

He was paralyzed over nine years ago, and he died from an infected pressure wound. People without access to the care he had would not have survived that type of injury as long and as well as he did (something he in fact often mentioned).

Even if stem cell research had been going full tilt four years ago, or even nine years ago, it is extremely unlikely it would be at the point where it could have prolonged his life or healed his injuries.

I am someone who might personally benefit tremendously from stem cell research, and even if I weren't, I'd still support it 100%. Reeve did a marvelous job advocating for healthcare access for all and for stem cell research, but it was always very unlikey that he would be able to benefit from it himself due to the nature of his injury.

Reeve surprised me with his eloquence and honesty about his horrible injury, and his work to help not only himself but others by speaking on behalf of stem cell research and health care access. I too think Reeve would like the fight for both to go on, and his name to be used.

[daddybear]

30. I feel certain....

the first thought of Bush was: "One less vote for Kerry and that damned stem cell crap!"

I hope Chris's death sets America afire FOR the research to the point that we ALL vote Bush and his lying cronies out.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

32. We can discuss whatever we want. Kerry needs to be cautious not to blame

Bush for his death. Intelligent folks know that this is absurd - conservative leaning swing voters who get their soundbites from cable news do not.

[dolo amber]

34. No doubt

He's the second person whose last name was Reeve(s) who played Superman and died. :tinfoilhat: