What do you think of "Living in sin"

[dr.strangelove]

I just told my co-worker that it was coming up on ten years that my wife and I have lived together. She was at my wedding four years ago, so she did not understand how we lived together for ten years until she realized that we had been "Living in sin!" for the first six years.

She asked me if I thought my marriage was cheapened by living together before marriage. I told her that I thought it was stronger.
What do you think, does "shackin up" before you take the vows in any way hurt a marriage?

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

1. Sin? What's that?

Were you brewing bombs in the basement or something?

[northzax]

2. completely depends on the people involved, of course

everything can hurt a marriage, everything can make it stronger, it all depends on how the people involved react to the situation and the various stresses, I think.

in your case, it seems to have strengthened it. in others, it might weaken it.

[bif]

3. Thumbs up.

I think it's great. No better way to get to know someone. Except travel. Now there's a test.

[eddiebrowns]

7. ain't that the truth!

[kick-ass-bob]

4. whatever. My parents said:

its good to test it out before you actually get married - just in case.
(Not what I expected to hear)

[dr.strangelove]

22. Both our parents were cool with our living together

I was scared that her dad would kill us. But it all worked out well.

[Mizmoon]

5. Make love, not war

anything that does not involve hurting others is ok in my book.

[eddiebrowns]

6. HAHAHAHAHAHA

Lived together for 2 years prior to marriage and just celebrated 23 years together-gee and we still like each other and like to hang out together, so I guess the answer is no-but it sure is fun to bring up the topic to some people just to see the look on their face!B-)

[Rainbowreflect]

10. My husband & I were friends for 5 years.

Then lived together for 5 years. We have now been married for over 13 years.
I would not have married him if we had not lived together first.
I had a very bad first marriage and would not have trusted getting married again if not for living together first.

[dr.strangelove]

23. See, another great success

I am starting to think people should live together ahead of time.

[calico1]

8. Count me as one who is

"living in sin." I have been with my boyfriend since 1996 and we got engaged last Christmas. I would never want to marry anyone without living with them first. You know the saying: you never really know a person until you have lived with them. At my age I don't really want any surprises with this part of my life. If you live with someone and find out they are a nutjob its easier to break it off than to marry them and find out later, don't you think? At least that is my opinion.

[dr.strangelove]

24. You are so right

I think living with someone tells you so much about them .. Its not just the little things like leaving socks on the floor (me) or leaving lights on after you leave a room (her). Its the sense that you can get through it all together.

[Neshanic]

9. Mixing Danish modern furniture with colonial..THAT'S a sin.

What a riot, "living in sin". She actually said that?

[dr.strangelove]

25. Yeah, crazy huh

She went a little soapbox on me, but she is usually pretty cool. I was surprised that living together bothered her.

[the Princess]

74. AND cutting Spaghetti

Instead of learning to twirl it - to me the New Jersey Italian girl - THAT is a sin! Punishable by death (and I know where to hide the body) LOL

[edbermac]

136. I break it half before cooking it...is that a mortal or venial sin?

:shrug:

[the Princess]

145. You must not be Italian

You would know breaking spaghetti in half is punishable by a visit from *VITO*! LOL

[It was not a pretzel]

11. Living in sin?

Didn't that judgemental attitude die out in the 50's? Mind you I don't live in the US *phew*

I've been living in sin the past 10 years and intend to do it hopefully another 30 years.

[daddybear]

20. Not at all...

Jesus did not die in the 50's nor did the Word of God.

Now, throw stones all ye want. Fact is fact.

[cally]

12. How can anyone judge another person for this??

I lived with my now husband for several years before we got married. We were sure before we married. I wouldn't do it any other way.

[Chovexani]

13. The only way to live!

Honestly the whole "living in sin" thing just bugs. Why can't people just live how they want to without this kind of judgemental crap? We are such a back-asswards society.

[sysoprock]

14. That's the one thing the fundies got 100% correct.

I "lived in sin" for about a year, moving in with a girl was the worst decision I've ever made.

I'm not moving in with someone again until I'm married to them...

for at least a year...

mabye two.

[dr.strangelove]

26. Sorry it didn't work for you.

I had a great time living with my wife. We slowly entered into the married life. I think it was a great call, but if it didn;t work for you, I understand your desire to never do it again.

[m_welby]

15. living in sin? sounds like fun !

Seriously,

I can't think of any way that it will hurt a marriage. Of course I don't have first hand experience. I have siblings who have cohabitated before marriage with mixed results, from that I would think that it isn't a good 'test' of compatibility.

Actually, a good test is to work on a home improvement project together (try wallpapering a room - lol), if a couple (cohabitating or otherwise) can survive that without destroying the room or murdering each other, then they have a good chance.

on edit - my experience doesnt make me a good judge on this though, dated, married, and parent at 19! Its only been 24 years (and a 2nd child) now, so I guess we did ok.

[dr.strangelove]

27. I don;t know about the wallpaper test

My wife and I decided long ago that we won't work on home improvement together. Our happiness is based on her making all the style decisions, and me getting it done while she is out doing her thing.

[m_welby]

91. as long as its a system that works

then thats fine. I don't make any of the style decisions either, and we haven't done wallpaper in a long time (way too stressful on the relationship). We paint now if possible and that usually works out well. Big projects involving power tools I usually am in charge, smaller 'decorating' projects she's in charge. It took a long time to work it all out though, and its a testament to perseverence that we are still married.

[RoyalWickedness]

16. I don't believe in "sin"

but I have cohabitated with my current beau for the last five years. I was married previously, and it was a bad situation. I vowed never to marry again unless I was darned sure about things, and the only way you can find that out is to live with each other. Would you buy a car without taking it for a test drive?

[regularguy]

17. Living in sin, hanging out in sin, just passing through sin...

It's all good. For me being married has been best.

[the Princess]

18. I don't believe in sin or guilt

As an adult I take repsonsability for my actions. Wayne and I lived together for a year before we married - so what? Adults should do what they want as long as they are harming no one - but take responsability for your actions too. This *it just happened* excuse really pisses me off (but that's another thread)

[daddybear]

19. Of course....

or the Bible would not be true and God would not be right... living in sin is exactly that... makes the man a whoremonger and the woman, well... anyway... you all made it "legal" for whatever that is worth today.

[the Princess]

21. Wait a minute

is this a joke?????

[dr.strangelove]

29. Not a joke, but I wasn't bothered by her comments

I just thought it was a surprising conversation to participate in. I didn't think anyone would flinch at two people living together any more. From the post here, other people have seen or heard the same reaction I did.

My friend didn't start hurling insults at me, but she was obviously shocked and looked down on my choice to live together pre-marriage. It still surprises me that anyone can get bothered by other people's personal and private (meaning in your own home) choices.

[dr.strangelove]

30. Whoremonger - thats such a great word

I think I'll try to use that work with my co-worker now. You are a funny man Daddybear.

[dr.strangelove]

32. Daddybear, that was a joke right???

If not . . .

[liberalitch]

55. Do you think they'll let me change my screen name to that?

[dr.strangelove]

57. I don't think so

That might trip the censor. But try it.

[the Princess]

71. Whormonger

Well, at least you guys get a word with whore in it too. LOL I can't tell you how many times this week I've been called a whore or slut by a freeptard online.

I never denied it - cause Wayne loves it! LOL

[CO Liberal]

31. And Many Of Us Believe...

...that the bible is fiction - and bad fiction at that.

(Donning the asbestos undies in preparation for a flamefest....)

[daddybear]

33. And that....

is supposed to change the fact that the Bible is the Word of God? I think not.
Nonetheless, the one who started the thread asked for opinions... and that's mine... and millions of others. Thus, rave on... I shall say no more. Truth is truth.

[CO Liberal]

36. Just Because You Believe Something To Be True...

...does not make it so.

I used to believe the bible was the word of God, but not any more. Now I believe that it is merely a collection of folk legends that were passed down from one generation to another before they were written down. Thay explains why other religions also feature concepts suce as virgins giving birth to saviors.

In short, there ARE no truths in religion - only beliefs. Why do you think they're called "religious BELIEFS"????

[dr.strangelove]

37. I did ask for your opinion, but do you really think that

women who live with men out of wed-lock are whores nor are their partners whoremongers. I know you said that you will speak no more, but please speak up on this. I don't understand how my wife living with me before we were married made me a whoremonger or her a "well... anyway... you all made it "legal" for whatever that is worth today."

[CO Liberal]

38. And I Lived With Two of my Wives Before Marrying Them

Neither of them were "whores", and I'm no "whoremonger".

[dr.strangelove]

44. Really, come on

you know you were a pimp (or whatever whoremonger means to you) and your wives were working the bunny ranch. (HEAVY SARCASM)
I just don't get how living together made my wife a whore or me a whoremonger.

Daddybear usually posts some interesting ideas and has appeared fairly liberal on several social issues in his past posts. I am surprised that he has taken this stance.

Anyway, thanks for your time and you opinion. I'm glad we agree that our wives aren't whores and we are not whoremongers.

[CO Liberal]

46. Me, Too

Hopefully, others in this thread will join us in the 21st Century.

[the Princess]

69. hmmmmmmmm

and your wives were working the bunny ranch. (HEAVY SARCASM)

HEY - I Knew you sounded familiar - weren't you a customer???

<evil grin>

[the Princess]

68. OhI don't know about that honey.........

ON a REALLY good night - you could be! LOLOL

[CO Liberal]

77. Nope

On a really good night, I'm very happy!!!!

:bounce:

[the Princess]

66. LMAO

"Truth is Truth"

Yes siree and my truth is that I had sex before marriage and I lived with my hubby before we married and (this should make his head explode) I believe that if two married people agree it is OK to have sex outside their marriage - then that's OK too. LOLOL

Oh bad Pagan - Bad Pagan!!

hee hee

[CO Liberal]

72. My Head's Intact, Honey

BTW, you just passed 100 posts!!!!

Your first milestone!!!!

:toast:

[the Princess]

73. NOT YOUR HEAD.........

I meant the Whoremonger guy - was that a woman?? LOL

[CO Liberal]

75. Oh - Pronoun Trouble

Shoot him now! Shoot him now!
No, he doesn't have to shoot you now....


Source: http://www.jenn98.com/

[dr.strangelove]

86. CONGRATS ON YOUR 100th POST!!

I wasn't lucky enough to be a customer.

Well, the "CO Liberal" family sound pretty cool. Thanks for contributing to my most successful post (if the number of reply posts is the measuring stick). I'm glad we could have a little fun here. I hope your whoring and mongering continue for years to come.

[CO Liberal]

93. We Should Have a "National Whoring and Mongering Day"

Sound like a good idea????

:-)

[the Princess]

127. Thank you thank you very much.......

I look forward to a long and prosperous relaionship with DU! LOLOL

[tigereye]

132. scuse me a lot of us don't live our lives by the Bible

I was raised as a Catholic... the Bible is not fact or truth. And there are many other words of god, in many other religions.

[CO Liberal]

163. Thank You, Tigereye

Yet another voice of reason.

[smirkymonkey]

76. Thank you!

Now go back to your sinning, you...you...you..Whoremonger!!

[Rambis]

28. Did it for 8 years

before we got married. Not an issue, we got married for the folks.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

34. A few years ago there was a bogus study released about this...

And it said, quite incorrect and biasedly(is that a word?) that if you cohabitate before marriage, you're more likely to divorce. See, I would think it was just the opposite. If you're used to each other before marriage, you've already been through that period of adjustment where that person drives you insane for the first six weeks, and you don't have to find out that your partner sucks in bed and refuses to do anything about it. Once you're married you are stuck or you get divorced. If you move in together, if you hate it, you can leave, no harm, no foul, and the best part is you don't have to give your partner half of everything you own!
Skip and I are lucky. We'll be marrying next year. We lived together for two years. We found out if we spend time in separate rooms and do our own thing and then come together it's great. But we're also best friends and compliment the other where they are lacking (as it should be!). He told me he'd never marry anyone without first living with them. And he was right. You really don't know someone until you live with them!!!
Duckie

[dr.strangelove]

40. I've heard that before, but I never knew there was a study

I'd love to see the stats. I too believe it made our marriage stronger. I lived with another girl briefly in college and it was clear that it would not work out. We both found out before our finances and social well being became co-dependent. we were able to leave each other with respect, albeit anger at the time.

My wife and I have been lucky enough to get along since day one. Sure we fight, but we respect each other's privacy and let each other cool out. I'm the yeller, and she lets me get out all the anger. She needs to be alone, and I let her when she needs it. We found this out through years of trial and error. I believe it made our marriage so much stronger.

[Mallifica]

84. I read about that too.

But, it does not take into account all of the couples who cohabitated, drove each other crazy, and DIDN'T get married. If they had just jumped into marriage instead of living together it may have increased the number of divorces between those that had never lived together.

[Wapsie B]

98. Yes there was.

I forget who did the study but it was trumpeted by our former conservative fundy wannabe poor excuse for a Lutheran minister every chance he got.

[CO Liberal]

100. Probably From The Family Research Council

Or as I call it, the Fake Research Council.

[SarahB]

35. The proverbial formalizing piece of paper.

We "shacked up" six months before we got married. In retrospect, if we shacked up longer, I might have had more of a clue and not gotten married. Certainly would have kept me out of this mess trying to get out of it oh-so-many years later. I can imagine living with someone again, but it's pretty hard to imagine marriage. Never say never, but what's the point? If you want to be with someone, you don't need that darn paper, but to get out, all kinds of stuff has to be done. I think the paper makes you do things you know you shouldn't do or put up with things you shouldn't have to put up with because it's so damned complicated to get out.

[Magrittes Pipe]

39. Why don't you ask Bon Jovi?

All important questions can be answered by Bon Jovi lyrics.

[dr.strangelove]

41. Which song?

[Magrittes Pipe]

45. Uh... "Living in Sin," I would guess.

;)

[dr.strangelove]

47. Sorry, don't know any Bon Jovi

but I did make out with a girl in the parking lot of the Meadowlands during a Bon Jovi concert. I was waiting to pick up my little sister and she was doing the same for her sister. We got to talking and we wound up making out in her car. all those were the days.

[Magrittes Pipe]

50. That is the only reason to go to a Bon Jovi concert.

To make out in the parking lot.

[sangh0]

42. I think it depends on the people involved

I know of several couples whose marriage was arranged by their parents. One long-time friend of mine married a woman he had only met once before, and that was after she was "arranged" to be his bride. Though my secular and liberal background leads me to strongly suspect that getting to know one another would help a marriage succeed, all of the couples in the arranged marriages I know of seem to be doing better than the unarranged couples I know.

[texas1928]

43. EH it was an okay song back in the day.

But I like 80's music.

[dr.strangelove]

49. I love the garfield cartoon

[texas1928]

53. Why thank you

My wife made it, it is one of her sig tags.

[donheld]

48. Heaven's no

the ONLY things that can "cheapen" any marriage is the behavior of the two involved in the marriage. Even if there is no legal marriage, it's the behavior of the two involved who cheapen or enrich the relationship.

[dr.strangelove]

56. Great post

I started out this thread because I was surprised that people still feel that living together is morally wrong. It turned into a very thought provoking thread (and is probably the first thread I started to get over 50 replies).
I agree that the people in the relationship are all that matter. Granted two people in a relationship can make it very cheap (as evidenced by the latest celebrity sex video that "leaks" out onto the internet). But my wife and I are not cheap, and nothing we have ever done has cheapened our marriage (though that night when we stole apples from someone's tree in Batavia NY b/c we had no money to eat was pretty bad). Thanks for the good post.

[DS1]

51. It's mandatory

[no name no slogan]

52. I've seen it work both ways w/ my parents

My folks divorced when I was four, so I've seen them both have different partners throughout the subsequent 31 years.

My dad had a live-in for 10+ years. For all practical purposes, they were married. Eventually they split up and she moved out.

My mom got remarried four years ago to a guy, and they didn't live together before the wedding. They got divorced a year ago. However, they're still living together until he can get his new house built, which should be within a few weeks.

IMHO it doesn't really make any difference one way or the other. I've seen couples live together for several years and not marry, who later separate. My wife and I lived together for 1.5 years before our wedding, and we've now been married longer than both my parents ever were.

However, "living together" is NOT MARRIAGE. In most states, you can live together yet still not have any rights. For some, the marriage certificate is "just a piece of paper", but that piece of paper gives you rights you wouldn't normally get. That certificate also shows that you believe enough in the relationship that you want to make it permanent-- whether it turns out that way or not in the end.

Which is one of the reasons why I favor marriage for gay/lesbian couples over "civil unions" any day, I guess. :)

[liberalitch]

54. I am currently enjoying it....

Oh, and I also live with my boyfriend.

[Ladyhawk]

58. What do I think of "living in sin"?

I'd like to try it someday. :)

[Joe Chi Minh]

59. Speaking from

experience (with the partner who became my wife), it is not a good idea. That is the absolute Christian truth.

However, when judging our actions and omissions, God knows and takes into account where each one of us is coming from, what has contributed to make us who we are at every point in our life and faith (or formal lack thereof), our motivations, however confused, and every aspect which influences our decisions, good and bad.

And as Jesus reminded the disciples when they asked him if they should call down fire on recalcitrant, unhelpful Samaritan villages -"You don't understand", he said, "I came not to condemn the world but to save it". I don't mean to explain away the express Christian precept and commandment, but to put it in context. The deepest truths even in the physical world are steeped in paradoox, because the deeper we penetrate the truth, the more paradoxical we find it.

And since spiritual truths are the deepest of all aspects of ultimate truth, it is easy for people in good faith to see that the rigid, legalistic formalism of the scribes and pharisees of Christ's day, (and indeed the institutional Christian Church for much of its history), was a wholly inappropriate way in which to approach the truths expressed in Scripture. "Go away", he said to the hard-hearted formalists on one occasion, "and find out the meaning of the words, "What I want is love, not sacrifice, knowledge of God, not holocausts". On another occasion, he remarked, "Love is the fulness of the Law; upon it hangs the whole of the Law and the prophets".

The great German thinker, Goethe, once commented, "Love does not seek to dominate, it seeks to cultivate"; something good parents (not least, of course, the parents of good priests) will surely have understood since the dawn of mankind, yet it has taken my own church, the institutional Roman Catholic Church the best part of 2000 years to focus on this simple axiom, and accordingly, convene Vatican II; and it still has ground to make up, to catch up with the many outstanding pastors in the field it sends out all over the world.

[Pithlet]

60. My husband and I lived together for 4 years

Had a baby and got pregnant with number 2 before we got married in my third trimester at the courthouse. We recently celebrated our first wedding anniversary. So, you can guess my feelings on the matter. :)

[GoddessOfGuinness]

61. "Living in sin" is what Santorum is doing.

If and when he decides to come out of the closet, and stops living a lie, then he'll no longer be "living in sin".

A good marriage is not made of fine crystal; it's made of play-doh.
When it falls to the floor, it doesn't shatter. It picks up dog hairs, and lint, and that kernel of corn somebody forgot to sweep up; but you pick most those things out of it, and re-mold the marriage around the fragments you can't extract.

Happy Anniversary!

[dr.strangelove]

63. We are all a little bit Play-doh, aren't we

I certainly have picked off as much of the dog hair, cookie crumbs and dust as a I can, but I fall down so much, there is a lot to clean off. I like your Play-doh analogy. thanks for the well wishes.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

65. As long as it doesn't fall in the litter box

it should be ok! :hi:

[gpandas]

67. good post, great thoughts. n/t

[liontamer]

85. "play-doh"I like that metaphor a lot

it describes my views of marriage eloquently!

[tigereye]

137. is he really gay?

I keep hearing this here... and I live in Pgh. and have never heard it. He's a very conservative ( some would say fascist)Catholic boy
(Angnus Dei, almost) and has a passel of kids. He is likely repressed, but I have never heard stories about him in gay bars, and I think I would have heard that since I live here. But I could be wrong. It would be an interesting and hypocritical stance, given his views and pronouncements.

Hi G o G

[GoddessOfGuinness]

149. He's the only one who knows that for certain...

He may not have had an affair with a man; but his overly vocal homophobic rantings scream to me of someone who can't come to terms with their own sexuality.

[qnr]

62. My wife and I lived together for seven years before marrying.

Really only married so she would be eligible for health insurance benefits, to be honest.

[dr.strangelove]

64. If my insurance carrier didn't provide domestic partner coverage

we would have married earlier too.

[bearfan454]

70. It helps.

You can find out if you get along a majority of the time.

[smirkymonkey]

78. The ONLY sin is being a REPUBLICAN.

So you're just fine.

[Iris]

79. I don't really have an opinion one way or another, but I'd have to say

it's none of her DAMN business!

[RetroLounge]

80. I don't believe in "SIN"

My wife and I have been married 8 years this month.

Lived together first. Both of us had bad 1st marriages, so we wanted to test drive first. Our kids are glad we did...

RL

[Nikia]

81. I suppose that it depends on the relationship

Sometimes I do wonder about couples who buy a house together and have a couple of children but are not sure if they are ready to committ to marriage.
For some others who kept everything seperate in the same house before they marry, the transition to sharing can be difficult. Others might be let down if things are exactly the same after marriage as before.
My husband lived together the summer before our senior year of college and for a couple montths after we graduated before we married. For all practical purposes, we were already married though. We didn't consider it a sin at all because we had already made a private committment to each other.
For couples who are not committed to each other, I don't know if I'd call it a sin. I just think that there are a lot of things about it that can go wrong.

[welshTerrier2]

82. 27 years ... so far, so good ...

perhaps if the next 27 work out as well, we'll get married ... perhaps not ...

actually, mrs. wt2 (who is not really a mrs. at all but that's how i refer to her on DU) and I think marriage is an artificial definition of relationships ... your relationship is your relationship and putting a pretty name on it or ascribing to it certain attributes by giving it a societal or religious definition does not change the reality of what exists ... well, at least it shouldn't change that reality ...

both of us think all "marriages" as recognized by governments should be civil unions ...if people then want to enter into marriages, be they religious or communal or whatever, that's nice for them, i guess ... we wouldn't object to that ...

[arwalden]

83. I'm All In Favor Of Anything That Perturbs Fundies

[auburngrad82]

87. This is why I'm not gettng married

A co-worker informed me that I was going to hell because I was living in sin and fornicating out of wedlock. Now I can't get married because I want to see if it's true.

Seriously, I'd like to see a study of the number of couples that get divorced after living together before marrying as opposed to couples that don't live together until they are married. I'd be willing to bet that the latter group has a higher divorce rate.

[AntiCoup2K4]

88. You could ask Jon Bon Jovi, since he wrote a sappy song about it...

But maybe you should ask Paul Crouch, Jim Bakker, Jimmy "I kill fags for sport" Swaggart, Newt Gingrich, Henry Hyde, and Mush Limpdick - just to name a few.

[NamVetsWeeLass]

89. DUde...

We are liberals... :bounce:
I give Shacking up Two thumbs, way up!

[dr.strangelove]

90. For those of you keeping score

Shackin up: 39 - waiting for marriage: 1
Sorry daddybear, you are in the minority on this thread.

[CO Liberal]

92. He Seems to Have Vanished....

[daddybear]

95. Nope...

didn't vanish at all; just true to my word. I had my say... and I have been in the minority many times as a Christian. And?

[CO Liberal]

96. We Thought You Had Taken Your Ball And Gone Home

I have no problem with people professing a Christian belief - that's their right. What I DO have a problem with is Christians who think that their belief system is the only valid belief system and try to impose their beliefs on others.

Which it looked like you were doing yeaterday. It's the main reason I no longer consider myself a Christian.

[daddybear]

97. Hahahahah

then ya don't know meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.... LOL... but as I say, I hd my say and then y'all went insane and hey, that is YOUR privilege as was mine to stand for the Word of God. Now... on to other matters.

Bush is gaining on Kerry. Someone send him a bag of pretzels for the debate tonight!

[CO Liberal]

99. You Stood for What You BELIEVE Is "The Word of God"

No one knows for sure what God says, or even if God exists at all.

And if that's the way you are, maybe we don't WANT to know youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu.

[daddybear]

102. Works for me....

ya DON'T know me.... want to or not. So, it works for you, too. Cool?

[CO Liberal]

113. Not Cool

Keep your religious beliefs to yourself, and don't try to impose them on others. That's the big gripe many of us have with the Republicans right now.

[CO Liberal]

101. In Case You Missed My Edit on Post 96....

...I'm repeating it here for your benefit, daddybear:

* * * * *

I have no problem with people professing a Christian belief - that's their right. What I DO have a problem with is Christians who think that their belief system is the only valid belief system and try to impose their beliefs on others.

Which it looked like you were doing yeaterday. It's the main reason I no longer consider myself a Christian.

[daddybear]

103. Either we have faith....

in God (or what we believe) or we do not. I do. Therefore, yes, indeed... God as I know Him and His Word IS real and precious to me... has been since age 9 until now at 63 and will be tomorrow...

YOU must decide then to accept or reject HIM...not me, for I matter not. I am a monitor screen... see?

[daddybear]

104. Oh...and BTW...

I answered a request for "how do you fee;" or think or whatever... I did not PUSH anything... people KNOW what is morally right... they just don't want to ADMIT it...

...and guess what? THAT is my saying on THAT.

[CO Liberal]

105. Then in That Case....

...don't let the Lounge door hit you in the ass.

[daddybear]

106. Surely you jest....

HAHAHAHAH I ain't going nowhere. My arse is just fine right here, thank ya.

[CO Liberal]

116. Not For Long.....

...if you keep preaching like that. People will tire of you in a New York Minute.

[CO Liberal]

107. I Just Went Back To Your Original Post #19

Re-posted here to jog your memory:

* * * * *

19. Of course....

or the Bible would not be true and God would not be right... living in sin is exactly that... makes the man a whoremonger and the woman, well... anyway... you all made it "legal" for whatever that is worth today.

* * * * *

Essentially, daddybear, you were NOT stating how you felt - you were PASSING JUDGEMENT on a fellow DU-er.

We know what YOU consider to be morally right, but since so many self-identified Christians are world-class hypicrites, it really doesn't matter.

[daddybear]

108. Jog your mind...

read it over and over... it IS how I feel and it IS also the Word of God... matters not whether you (or anyone else) "believes" it or not... it is truth. We will live and die with it.

Thanks for bringing it back up again though... it needed to be said again.

Have a wonderful day.

[CO Liberal]

109. Who Named YOU The Expert on All Things Religious?????

YOU may have bought into all that mumbo jumbo, but some of us can see beyond it.

[daddybear]

110. HAHAHAHAHAHAH

Okay, you keep believing that. God loves you, so I have to as well. hehehe

Now, back to the net for some fun.

KERRY ROCKS!!!!

[CO Liberal]

115. So You Say

No one knows for sure.

[JimmyJazz]

111. check your in box

[JimmyJazz]

112. Forget you inbox, you've got yourself a live one!

Seems he spends his days disrupting threads with his rw neo-con religious attitudes!

[daddybear]

117. Give it up....

he/she asked a question... I answered. Get over it.

[JimmyJazz]

120. No, I won't you are disrupting these boards with your neo-con

attitudes. It's not even as if you are quoting about the love of Christ and how he taught about acceptance. You are putting up the most restrictive quotes and asking people to accept your "snippets" as proof of how God wants us to behave.

Here ya go: Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind and Love your neighbor as yourself - Where in your statement calling someone a whoremonger is the love for your neighbor? And so help me, if you come back with some bulshit about making someone see the error of their ways, you will just have proven my point!

on edit: and if living in sin is whoremongering, what would you say to our gay friends on these boards???

[daddybear]

121. My thoughts exactly...

and no one is disrupting the board... YOU have a splinter somewhere is all... get passed it. Twasn't God's fault. Me and God, we love ya... and so have your last say and get over it. I am on to better things.

[JimmyJazz]

122. You failed the test! What part of calling someone a

whoremonger is loving and kind? You are onto better things - see ya

[JimmyJazz]

124. No - you have a splinter

apparently you bought some of Bush's wood. I am tired of you and am in a bad mood - You can quote the Bible all you want, but to use the rw talking points in your arguments is way too much for me.

See ya.

[Name removed]

164. Deleted message

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[CO Liberal]

177. No...YOU Get Over It

Not everyone follows the same archaic beliefs you do.

And you're not making many converts on this thread to your way of "thinking"...

[CO Liberal]

118. By The Way....

...EVERY day of my life has been WONDERFUL since I turned my back on Christianity.

[daddybear]

119. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Life's not over.

[Name removed]

126. Deleted message

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[JimmyJazz]

128. nice post n/t

[CO Liberal]

129. That Muffled Sound You Hear In the Background....

...is daddybear's head exploding as he reads that post! :-)

:nuke:

[daddybear]

133. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

surely you jest!? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAH... the guffaw you hear is me laughing at the children as they play at trying to defend themselves against the Word.

Any whoooooooooooooooooooooo.... wasn;t this a discussiion about shacking up?

Funny how the Word is a two-edged sword huh, cutting asunder all tripe talk.

God loves ya so.

[CO Liberal]

138. You Remind Me Of Someone....

There's a guy in Colorado Springs who calls local talk radio shows, spewing Bible Verses. Every year, he dresses in sackcloth and ashes and protests the local Gay Pride Parade. And one day on the radio, he called me the Anti-Christ.

I consider him a laughing stock - as do many people in Colorado Springs. And you're in the same category, daddybear. The tripe talk is coming from YOUR keyboard - not mine.

[daddybear]

140. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

huh? Oh did you say something?

HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAH

Jesus loves ya.

[Name removed]

165. Deleted message

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[JimmyJazz]

134. Damn, if I had known you two were PAGANS...

Oh who am I kidding, I'd still be nuts about you!

[the Princess]

142. Paganism

The FUN belief system! LOL

None of those nasty *SINS* to worry about! Hee Hee

[daddybear]

130. Son....

I was studying and preaching the Word WAYYYYYYYYYYYYY before you were a gleam in your daddy's eye <g>... we went thru all that JUNK in seminary and it is cute reading... but truth is truth... and the Word of God is truth.

Thanks for the giggle though.

Now... BACK to the fun stuff...

Debate tonight... Kerry better get it right on...

[CO Liberal]

135. Ah Yes, Seminary.....

Where new generations of brainwashers are indoctrinated.

The TRUTH is that there ARE no truths in you Bible - only what delusional people wrote down when their hallucinations convinced them that God was talking to them. Today, they'd be put on prescription drugs.

Your "word of GOD" is what you THINK is truth, but you have no way of proving it, so you might as well stop. You're not gonna convince me.

I was a Catholic for the first 25 years of my life - an altar boy and all. When I realized it was a fake, I turned my back on it and never looked back.

If you find comfort in that so-called "truth", more power to you. But stop inflicting it on others, OK???

[daddybear]

139. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

so you are "inflicted"? Cool. Proves the Word is truth! GLORY!!!

[CO Liberal]

166. Proves You Don't Know Anything

And you prove it with each new post.

[Name removed]

141. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

144. Deleted message

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[the Princess]

I repeat

I was raped at 7 by a "man of the church" a BAPTIST church.

Don't even get me started.

[daddybear]

154. And?

What did God have to do with that?

Don't even answer. You are creating stuff now to try to make your point seem valid. It's not.

Have a wonderful day...and evening. I have church. <g>

[the Princess]

158. What did god have to do with that?????

Everything

This was a man who read the bible daily - went to church 4 times a week and sat on the board of elders - and was a pilar of the community and yet - he still thought it was ok to molest a child (children actually - my sister too).

Yeah maybe he was sick - but maybe - just maybe it was the religion and your god's word that made him sick. Could be he took what he learned and twisted it to make his actions excusable. But it was still the teachings of your god that he used to make excuses.

So yes god did have something to do with it.

[daddybear]

160. Nope

God had naught to do with it. Sorry.

And the moderators are deleting most of my messages, so... I guess you win on THAT count. Heheh

But... life is not over yet.

Kerry may win the election... if not...then we will see... how many more die for oil.

[CO Liberal]

167. But the Big Question Is....

...how many people have died over the years (and still die to this day) for your God????


Hmmmmmmmmm????

[daddybear]

169. One one answer there....

I would.

Now, is this not enough for ya?

[the Princess]

187. OH and

IF in your bible women and children weren't seen as property of the man and expected to be submissive - maybe women would be given more respect. And maybe women would feel empowered and could stand up to a man - instead of being subservient. Which would probably stop a lot of abuse - period.

But I'm never gonna get through to you - so I'm done.

Oh one more thing - even a strong independant woman can be submissive to a man in the right situation - and with the right man. But a lot men (especially men like you) don't love their women enough to let them be submissive in their own time and in their own way - they demand it always. To surrended to someone (which is what being subissive is) you must trust that person completely to not exploit that part of who you are. For me - the only man I have ever trusted that much is my husband - because I know he would never hurt me. And he gives me the space to be submissive in my time.

But I seriously doubt if you will understand that. So Bu-Bye.

[Name removed]

148. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[arcane1]

151. that's because God is a sadist

he also told his followers to rip open the bellies of pregnant women

'nuff said

[the Princess]

153. Agreed n/t

[the Princess]

143. Studying the word

Doesn't mean you studied history. You are studying lies and stories.

If you chose to believe them that is your business - forcing it down anyones throats is something else again.

And do not condiscend to me by calling me *little girl* or any such stupidity - age only gains you respect if you have chosen to use your life to LEARN - not just accept second hand info as truth.

Sandie
(your friendly neighborhood Pagan)

[daddybear]

146. Little girl?

Where di that come fom? An inner desire? Hmmmmmmm.... we better leave THAT one alone.

God loves ya so.

Kerry - 2004!

[Name removed]

147. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

Deleted message

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[the Princess]

152. I am sweet

When the person is due that kind of respect.

You aren't

[Name removed]

155. Deleted message

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[the Princess]

156. Um

Are you trying to be witty? Cause it's lost on me.

Ask my hubby how *sweet* I am! LOLOL

[Name removed]

157. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dr.strangelove]

215. What is it about the word of god that pisses so many people off

My original thread did ask for people's opinion on "shackin up."
I was posting in the Lounge because I thought it was funny that someone felt so offended by my admission that I "did it." I never thought this type of conversation would result or I would have started the thread in the GD forum.

However, since our mods have seen it in their wisdom to keep it in the lounge, lets keep going here.

Daddybear's responses seem to have caused quite a shake up. Lots of old angers toward religion have come up. Let me just say that I was very angry to hear that a new DU friend of mine (I just met the COLiberals in this thread and I am proud to call them DU friends already) was sexually assaulted by a member of the church early in life. I can't imagine the anger that is invoked in you when you hear someone going on about the purity of their understanding of the "word of god". I am sorry I had anything to do with bringing up those memories, but I applaud you for being self confident and strong. I don't know if I could talk about those feelings or those events as you have. It helped me understand where you come from with respect to your views on these religious themes we have discussed. You are one hell of a DUer and I hope we get to exchange ideas in another thread (this one is sure to be locked soon anyway).

Daddybear, I have some difficulty understanding why you are on DU after reading some of your posts. Your first, or one of your first, posts in this thread stated "or the Bible would not be true and God would not be right... living in sin is exactly that... makes the man a whoremonger and the woman, well... anyway... you all made it "legal" for whatever that is worth today."

Your use of the words "you all" at the end there trouble me. Do you not believe you are similar to the rest of DU, or were you speaking only to those DUErs who posted in response to my thread? This type of language leads me to believe the former, and further that you feel you are better then those who disagree with you.

My understanding is that DU is big enough for all types of liberal and democrats, but are you sure you fit in that category. Your comments that "you all made it 'legal'" trouble me. Are you complaining that the laws of the USA differ from your view of the "laws of god?" If that is your position, I'm not sure you belong here, and I'm not sure you are either a democrat or a liberal.

I may be off base about your various positions. It just seems that someone who believes it is wrong to create laws which oppose the "word of god" doesn't belong here.

Since you are here, let me say that I think your understanding of the "word of god" is wrong. I don't believe in the same god you do, so I don't feel qualified to pick apart your religious beliefs. But your belief that the law of god should dictate the laws in a democratic society frighten me. I thought we were attacked by people who felt that way. There is room for many religious beliefs in the world, but the laws that govern the world must allow for all these beliefs to co-exist, not allow one to triumph over the others because its followers believe it to be the true word of god. I know John Kerry believes abortion is a sin and those DUers that have an abortion will go to hell. I also know he accepts that the government is not to enforce those rules, that his god will on judgment day. I thinks he is crazy and that abortions are fine. He has never let his religious views guide governing, but he continues to believe them in his heart. That is a democratic christian. that is the man I want running the country. Your beliefs seem to be more in line with Bush's, i.e that faith should be intertwined with governing and law should reflect your religious views.

If you could create the laws, would you dictate that "Whoremongering" as you define it, is illegal? Would all of these good DUers be prosecuted for "living in sin?" If so, maybe you should leave DU behind and find a more "right leaning" forum.

[CO Liberal]

223. Well Said, mjf3

There are many people out there who want to turn the USA into a Bible-base theocracy. Here's hoping they NEVER succeed.

[Rabrrrrrr]

162. People who are convinced they know the truth, and the Word of God,

are the types of people who fly airplanes into buildings, kill abortion doctors, and drag homosexuals and people of other races behind their vehicles; or the type who stand idly by while others do the same; or the type who loudly and self-righteously proclaim who God loves, and who is deserving of scorn and contempt.

Either you are for Jesus, or you are for a legal system of faith - a legal system of faith which turns out not to be faith in God at all, but faith in a legal code. Which type of faith (the legal code one) is what Jesus was pushing everyone to get away from.

Anyone who says that what they believe is the Word of God is a liar, a hypocrite, and/or sadly (or quite possibly, very dangerously) delusional. Faith is ambiguous and it lives in gray areas, and ALL theology - repeat, ALL theology - is contextual. Like Jesus was.

I see nothing any more morally wrong with shacking up with someone without benefit of a "marriage" than I see with being gay, liking Pepsi, or owning shoes. I do have a moral problem with those who would cast judgment on others based on their sure knowledge that they know - more than know, that they grok - the inner mind of God.

Pfagh.

I would never say that what I believe is also the Word of God. That's pretty damned convenient, if you ask me. Scarily so. And awfully damned arrogant.

[daddybear]

170. Oooooooooooooooooooo

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

[CO Liberal]

171. Gee, daddybear.....

That's the most thoughtful and intelligent thing you've contributed to this thread so far.

:-)

[Rabrrrrrr]

176. I agree

It was the most thoughtful and intelligent thing so far.

Oh, well. That's the way it goes.

What're you gonna do? Live and let live, I say. (and which I say in direct contradiction to the self-righteous shmucks who think they know God's mind whou would rather say "live like me, or don't live")

[daddybear]

179. HUH????

Didja type something? I am sure it was overwhelming.

[CO Liberal]

185. Gee...

Once again, daddybear, your rapier-like wit has cut me to the quick.

NOT!!!!!

[Name removed]

188. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Rabrrrrrr]

192. What a shitheaded insensitive comment

Not that you care, but I feel the need to point it out in the hopes that you might take notice and learn. To debate and argue is one thing. To be an insensitive asshole is quite another. Especially for a so-called "Christian".

Intersting how your comment mirrors **exactly** what I said earlier about people who believe they know the mind of God.

[Name removed]

195. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

202. Deleted message

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[the Princess]

194. wwwwwwwweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

We're having some fun now aren't we honey!??

LMAO

[dr.strangelove]

217. I'm back in for a minute or two

I'm working on somethign that has kept me busy all day. Man you all have been busy in my absense.

[CO Liberal]

220. Hurry Back!

This thread may not be active for much longer.....

[Name removed]

205. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CO Liberal]

208. Maybe...

...he confused "rapier" with "rapist".

:-)

[Rabrrrrrr]

178. I also find interesting a predisposition

of certain types of peoples to not have a profile...

[CO Liberal]

181. Gee... He HAD A Profile Earlier Today

Hmmmm.....

[daddybear]

193. Awwwwwwwwww....

do ya miss me? When you start senidng me threats and smart arse talk and maybe even viruses, the moderators look down on that, ya see... so I just nilled the profile... live with it. This is a THREAD, not a court of law... we give opinions and we all know what those are like... but SOME don't like being "bested" <hehehe> and get all upopity... so... again... live with it..; best ya can.

God will still love ya.

[CO Liberal]

197. That Wasn't Me

I don't do stuff like that, daddybear. That's what freepers do.

And so-called "Christians".

[daddybear]

200. Uh huh

Uh huh.

[CO Liberal]

201. Another Brilliant Retort

Just HOW do you come up with them??? :shrug:

[daddybear]

204. Consider....

the target... seriouly. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[CO Liberal]

210. Consider...

...using the "Check Spelling" button. Seriously (the correct spelling). HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[daddybear]

190. Yep....

had it all on there until some idiots wanted to start sending e-mails and threats and all that JUNK mail... so... no need for it... I am Jim, I live in North Carolina and I am 63... what else ya need to know?

[Heyo]

94. "Living in sin"...

..totally ROCKS!

on edit: :headbang:

Heyo

[HEyHEY]

114. Meh, whatever

Personally I'm more traditional and wouldn't want to do it. But I don' think there's anything wrong with those who do it. My sister did it for years. My personal reasons don't have anything to do with religion though, just my old schoolness.

[arcane1]

123. rather fond of it actually

though I wouldn't call it "sin" since nobody is hurt by it

[BiggJawn]

125. Dunno...Never lived in Sin..

Is that anywhere near Las Vegas?

I used to live in Fishers, though...

[CO Liberal]

131. I thought Las Vegas WAS Sin!!!

:-)

(Posted as someone who used to live in Henderson.)

[BiggJawn]

159. Shush! What's done there stays there, don't forget!

:evilgrin:

[CO Liberal]

172. Until They Dig It Up On "CSI"

:-)

[AVID]

150. all for it

[helnwhls]

161. Why involve the state in your relationship?

keep it between you and your lover. i had a perfectly good relationship UNTIL we got married. i might as well been wearing an orange jump suit instead of a white dress when i walked down that aisle.

[dr.strangelove]

168. OH MY! Thats just plain old funny

An orange jump suit instead of a white dress.
Sorry your marriage was, or is, so bad. I really started this thread because a woman in my office was taken aback by my candid admission that my wife and I lived together for 6 years pre-wedding. I was surprised that anyone cared about this sort of thing. I guess some people do.

The state should stay out of the private lives of its citizens. Thats why there is a right to privacy protected by the US Constitution, even if its not listed there. I would never propose state regulation of marriage, but I am surprised that some people believe it is so wrong to live with your partner befoe marriage.

[No2W2004]

173. depends on how much "sin" is involved.

:evilgrin:

[CO Liberal]

174. You Mean We Had a QUOTA We Were Supposed To Meet????

:-)

[Rabrrrrrr]

180. Luther said "Sin Boldly" - so yes, of course there is a quota

Sheesh. Get with the program.

[CO Liberal]

213. Attention, Mrs. CO Liberal

Seems like we have some catching up to do....

:-)

[Southpaw Bookworm]

175. I'm loving it

Except, if I'm not a Christian and my sweetie is an atheist, what should we call it?

[CO Liberal]

183. Call It What It Is - "FUN"!!!

:-)

[jukes]

182. sin?

oh, sinnnn....

[Rabrrrrrr]

184. My partner and I have "lived in sin" for 6 years

We say, "Who cares?" And we're both dedicated Christian professionals, too. So there, all you naysayers and poo-pooers. Nyah. Not all Christians believe in your "Word of God" bs.

[CO Liberal]

189. There Are Two Types Of Christians....

Those who try to live a Christ-like life, and those who try to force their beliefs on others.

Right????

[Rabrrrrrr]

196. I think so

Or as I was talking today over coffee with a minister, there are those who have a faith that is socially and world directed - social justice, feding the hungry, helping usher in the kingdom of God - and those who have a very self-directed faith (like Shrubya), where it's all about what you profess as a faith, but in which actions in the world don't seem to matter or count, so long as one isn't doing anything sexual and getting caught at it. These are the types who can say that murder and killing is wrong - when directed at fetuses - and cry themselves silly about the sanctitiy of life, but who have no problem murdering criminals, murdering people in other countries, and/or cutting out social welfare programs that help those fetuses once they're born.

[the Princess]

221. What a fabulous post

You are a wonderful person! :)

[daddybear]

186. Funny....

this is listed as a HOT thread! HAHAHAHAH... why? Because I said it is BIBLICALLY a sin to shack up... hahahahaah... and people went insane... well, most already were from all indiciatins, but hahahaha, I thnk that is so funny and cool... HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH

[CO Liberal]

199. Shows How Much YOU Know

All threads with more than 30 replies are listed as "hot".

[daddybear]

203. Yep....

and this one would have died a natural death if you had not gotten your drawers in a wad. HAHHAHAHAHA so congrats!

[CO Liberal]

207. Nope

YOU were the one with the wadded undies, who started spouting "word of God" garbage in Post 19.

[daddybear]

214. Try real hard now.....

read the name of the thread. Uh huh...try harder... uh huh... now...go to sleep.

[dr.strangelove]

222. Daddybear, please read my post no. 215 up above

What made this post "hot" was you. You laid out some pretty anti-democratic rhetoric that called for a response.

[Hobarticus]

191. Great Bon Jovi song, but not one of their best. n/t

[geniph]

198. The only sin I recognize is deliberately hurting other beings

without good cause. In what way does living together without some meaningless piece of paper hurt anyone else?

I regard others' living arrangements as NOMFB - None of My F***ing Business.

[daddybear]

206. Actually

I agree... until someone asks (see the NAME of the thread). Then we ALL have a say... just some can't handle the truth. <g>

[CO Liberal]

209. And Some Wouldn't Recognize The Truth

Because they think the only "truth" is in a collection of fables that no one can verify as accurate. Go figure.

[daddybear]

211. Oh hhello

how did I know you would jump in with your tripe?

HAHAHAHAAHAHAH bless your little hard heart.

[CO Liberal]

219. I Don't NEED Any Blessings From You

Goddess has provided all I need.

[the Princess]

212. No see

What you are refusing to get is that - what you believe is YOUR truth. YOu cannot make such a ludicrous statement as "Mine is the only truth" because it cannot be proven. That's why it's called faith.

So go away and live in your truth and stop trying to drum it into others heads.

But once again I am sure you will not get this post.

Goddess knows I tried.

[daddybear]

216. HAAAHAHAAHAH you are so cute in your old age

HAHAHAHA.... goddess HAHAHAHAHAHAH.... oh hahahahaha... HAHAHAH... oh MY! HAHAHAHAHAH

Ahem... you just could not handle someone telling the truth -- and you not being able to jump in and throw a little hissy fit (PMS maybe?)....

AHAHAHAHAHH goddess... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

[CO Liberal]

218. How Pathetic, daddybear

You expect everyone to accept YOUR belief system as teh absolute truth, and you laugh at someone else's belief system.

What a wonderful "Christian" you've turned out to be.... :shrug:

[BigMcLargehuge]

224. locked

Since the EPA forced us to remove the asbestos from our lovely Lounge, the flames in this thread cannot be effectively contained.

Sorry for any inconvenience.

Big McLargehuge
DU Moderator