AA (Alcoholics Anonymous) Question

[Earth_First]

A friend of mine recently admitted to me that he has a problem with alcohol. This, to me, has been something I could not be happier with, as I have been struggling for some time now to confront him about his disease. We discussed this at great length several weeks ago, and came to the prognosis that he would seek help. He has been attending these meetings regularly since, twice a week. Last night he approached me about the progress he has been making, sounding quite concerned. He confessed to me that he is having problems with the program due to the obvious overtones of the need for religious acceptance in order to overcome the disease. While religion has never been a topic we have never discussed, he explained to me his problems that he is having with this program pushing religion on him in order to overcome his addictions. My question is, are there other programs out there which help one overcome the addiction to alcohol while not requiring one to profess one's life to religion?

Thank you in advance, additionally, please excuse my ignorance on the topic, however finding help for my friend is top priority

[Phillycat]

1. Check your PM in a minute.

[mikehiggins]

2. There is Religion, and then there is religion

AA talks about the need to recognise there is a higher power to which we are all responsible. Like Freemasonry, it does not say Jesus or Zeus or Coyote or Allah, just a higher power.

If your friend is an athiest or agnostic, his/her higher power might be seen as decency, morality, whatever.

What this really boils down to is the AA member has to accept the fact that he/she is powerless to defeat alcoholism on his/her own. If that was not the case, that individual shouldn't be there.

AA is not for everyone. A person unable to accept the concept that his/her affliction is bigger than he/she is will not do well there.

Mostly, as it happens, the points which cause the alcoholic the most trouble are the requirements that he/she try to heal the harm he/she has done others, and apologising to those who have been wronged.

Just my opinion, of course.

[SkipNewarkDE]

3. AA and Religion

I was adverse to AA at first because my initial perception was that it was overtly a religious group.

Three years later, I know better, it isn't.

You basically profess your faith in a "higher power" and that higher power is essentially one of your own choosing, or making. You have to have some element of faith that there is something bigger than you out there, whether it be God, Bhudda, the AA home group itself, or your dog, for that matter. It is essentially a psychological safety net that allows you to make the leap of faith that if you "let go" and stop trying to play god yourself, that the world kind of has a way of taking care of you.. ie. life is never quite as bad as you think it is.

While you do make a serenity prayer, and the Lord's prayer often at these meetings, you can direct it to whatever spiritual force or other force from whch you derive strength. It could be the strength of the group. Or the strength of a god. Whatever you choose.

[Marnieworld]

10. And if you do not and cannot believe in a higher power?

Please! All of the literature refers to this higher power and often referring to it as a HIM. Spending all of the time necessary to filter out all of that from the readings and conversation to fit yourself is and endless and isolating process. Quitting whatever addiction brought someone to a group is hard enough.

[silverlib]

4. As your friend attends more meetings...

he will come to understand that the previous posters are correct. There are, however, religious-based AA groups. AA meetings are like bars and churches - if you don't particularly care for one, there's another one down the street. There are AA groups that are basically for gays, others for agnostics, one that I know of for lawyers, for Christians, for Spanish-speaking individuals, and on and on.

[MsAnthropy]

5. I think he's confusing religion with spirituality

The meetings I've attended, they've stressed that they do not push religion per se, but spirituality as you want to define it. Tell him to keep looking for a meeting that fits his needs.

[Marnieworld]

9. when meetings end with the lord's prayer

It's not about spirituality.

[catmandu57]

6. There is an alternative

you don't have to become a twelve stepping robot, I know, I was a sloppy ass drunk for years, and while AA helped at first, I was put off by the religious angle.
That, and there were very few people attending meetings that had any time at all in. There were many first year people, fewer second year, even fewer third year.
So, I looked around and found rational recovery, they put the emphasis on the individual, not some great unknown. It worked great for me I've been sober for 19 years, and man I was a nasty ass drunk.
Go to http://www.rational.org/ take a look if you don't like it don't use it.

[dpbrown]

7. Tell him to try a little "powerlessness"

Turn to page 10 in the Third Edition of the Big Book (following the "Winchester Cathedral" paragraph) and read about Bill W's struggle with organized religion. Bill's revelation: choose a concept that works.

Then turn to Chapter 4: "We Agnostics" and contemplate "a power greater than myself."
All the "power" that the practicing alcoholic has been able to exert over his life has brought him to the brink of the abyss, hence the logical jump (pun intended) to the simple conclusion that a power "greater" than himself is necessary in order to get him out of this mess.

The individual trappings of Christianity or whatever that individual AA meetings wrap themselves in are not the Alpha and Omega of getting beyond the ego-centrism that lies at the core of denial fueling "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." It's up to the individual recovering person to either see through the overt religious practices of his fellow travelers in recovery, find a new meeting, or get ready for more of the same as he goes back out to "practice" some more.

But AA doesn't require a particular religious bent. That's why it works with Buddhists and Hindus and Native Americans, not just Christians.

Bottom line: finding a "problem" with the religious overtones of meetings represents the mustard seed of self-control (my "particular" situation is too special to be addressed by these losers) inserting itself into the process, setting the drunk up for relapse.

Your friend needs to find a sponsor and read the Big Book and find a way to the core of the program of recovery, doing a little less "I'm too special" thinking along the way.

His best thinking got him where he is today.

Maybe he could spend a little more time considering how AA worked for people in his situation, than convincing himself why he's so special it can't work for him.

Dan Brown
Saint Paul, Minnesota

[Marnieworld]

8. RATIONAL RECOVERY!!!!!

http://www.rational.org/

There are many critics of the 12 step movement. It is definitely not for secularists ( I know from experience). 12 Step groups are very cultish. I know that they help a lot of people but they also have such a poor success rate. More people get and stay sober without them

[dpbrown]

12. Ask George Bush about getting "sober" without doing the legwork

People can choose all, some, or none of recovery.

People can choose a piecemeal approach to recovery, picking and choosing from what's worked for millions in countries and cultures all over the world. For some, doing "half" will be enough to get them through this 24 hours. Maybe they were high-bottom drunks who can still afford to carry their black-and-white thinking, suspicion, and dismissal of what works around with them and still function. Or, like George Bush, maybe they've got an incredibly complex system of enablers surrounding them.

The 12-step programs themselves are just manifestations of an underlying set of guidelines that could be summarized as: 1) Let go of the thinking and ego that keeps you trapped, 2) Get help, 3) Look inside to figure out what crap you're carrying around, 4) Unload the crap, 5) Get straight with the people you burned, 6) Help others, 7) Rinse and repeat as necessary.

Since all 12-step programs are susceptible of that level of summation, getting "hung up" on the individual means by which people or groups practice recovery just bogs people down and confuses and drives away newcomers.

For people committed to being accountable for their actions and able to accept their powerlessness over their addiction and the ego-centrism at its core, the recovery rate for 12-step groups is 100%. Groups are not cults, though individuals obviously can only give away what they've already got. If they learned half-measures from their sponsor, then they'll transmit half-measures to the newcomer.

"Logic" is just another power greater than oneself.

[pagerbear]

11. Take what you like and leave the rest

That's what I was always told. As many others have said, the important thing about the spiritual component of the program is to realize that whatever your concept of a higher power is, it ain't you. Your best thinking got you there.

FWIW, I read an article once about this very issue that suggested thinking about our own higher selves as a higher power. In today's day and age no one can deny that there are parts of his own mind that go beyond conscious thought. These parts of ourselves are not designed to condone the self-destructive behavior we find ourselves indulging in, and would likely prefer that we do whatever is best for ourselves.

AA is not the only way to get and stay sober, and it's not necessarily for everyone. For most of the folks who have found sobriety in AA, it's the only thing that has worked for them. AA is full of human beings with human shortcomings. So is any other organization. One very common shortcoming across the board is the attitude that says what works for me is the solution for everyone.

People tend to talk about their experience in language they know. For many people, talking about the "spiritual" component of the program means using religious language. That doesn't mean your experience has to be religious. When AA was founded, talk about psychological issues wasn't nearly as common as it is today, but talk about spiritual issues was much more common.

My suggestion is to stick with people who say, "This is what worked for me," rather than people who say, "You should do this."

Or not. It's up to you and your friend.

[ismnotwasm]

13. There are other programs

As well as therapy using prochaska's model of change. A.A. has no outside interests as an organization, religion included. The early founders were on fire with religious zeal, but quickly realized that approach was not going to work with drunks. We still have a few zealots who try to push "God" I tell "em to fuck off, personally. (with love) I have been sober 14 years through A.A., and, to paraphrase Sartre, only my skepticism keeps me from being a complete atheist. I do not pray at meetings. Rational recovery is a good program, but my understanding is that it has no continuing support, except on-line. However it works for many, many people--in fact, I'm currently reading the R.R. book, just out of curiosity. A.A. has meetings all over the world, and is a loving community with a common purpose-to help to still suffering alcoholic. I hope your friend finds his way