Problem with cat

[detroit]

I am not even sure this is an appropriate topic, but here goes.

A couple years back, after my wife and I adopted a baby, our cat started using our entire basement as a toilet (ugh). I have tried several methods for re-training the cat and am still cleaning up his messes all over the basement. And now, because I must start using the basement as a home office, the issue is really coming to a head.

The bottom line: The cat has to go. But I don't want him killed. Are there any no-kill shelters in SE Michigan that could be bribed to take in my kitty and promise not to euthanize him? I'd give be willing to make a good-size donation.

With a small kid in the house (one who is now able to climb down stairs) this problem is just too unsanitary.

[Skip Intro]

1. Has the cat been confined to the basement?

[detroit]

7. NO

The cat has the run of the house and sometimes the back yard.

[friesianrider]

2. You really shouldn't give up the cat...

There are literally HUNDREDS of methods you can use to stop your kitty from using the basement to pee. I've also heard of an effective method where you put the cat in a room (so he can't get out) with a litter box for two weeks or so and supposedly it works really well. Have you had him to the vet> Perhaps he has some sort of other problem that is causing this.

Also, why not just put a door on the basement? That way your child can't get hurt falling down the stairs and your cat can't go down there either.

No-kill shelters have HUUUGE populations and won't be able to take your cat, I can virtually guarantee it. Further (sorry if this offends you) but I really hate when people say that they "don't want their cat to be killed" but they would just drop it off somewhere and make him someone else's problem (and you'd bribe them? The cats don't need money, they need HOMES). These kinds of issues come up with any animal, and when you took him into your home you promised to care for him as you would a child.

Your kitty doesn't understand what he's doing is wrong. Surely there is a solution for your cat and your family that doesn't involve killing him OR getting rid of him. You've had this cat for years - how could you just get rid of him like that?

[faithnotgreed]

4. i have to second this...

it does sound like he needs attention/is jealous of new baby. a different setup (not confined if that is what has been going on) or more attention etc as other posters have said here are very worth trying. and the right thing to do

once an animal has marked the area or acted out of being upset, then it is difficult i know. and it takes patience and caring and wanting to figure out options but i urge you to do this

IF the cat was more or less put aside to the basement after the baby was born, then it is not uncommon for this behavior to occur but it sounds very stressful for the cat as well as for you

i do urge you to reconsider and inquire with your vet how to handle a stressed animal like this

thank you...

[detroit]

8. But having worked on this problem for so long

I am at my wit's end. And I really don't want by child to end up getting sick from this.

[faithnotgreed]

11. given this information i would say its either one of two things:

once the cat urinated out of the litter box, they go back to this behavior.

now they are doing this either because of upset, acting out
or
because they have a possible illness, infection etc

please have him checked out first. if you have that kind of money to donate, then please take him to vet in order to rule out urinary infection or something

thank you very much detroit. you and your cat and your child! will feel better if you do this. let a competent professional tell you whats going on
hope you know of a good vet, if not please ask people you trust if they know of one

[friesianrider]

22. I'm sorry...

...but that's no excuse as far as I'm concerned. All animals have problems like this at one time or another, just like children do. If you weren't prepared for it then you should have never taken the cat.

It's a shame the cat has to suffer and will probably end up homeless or killed because you can't figure out a way to make it work.

[ScreamingMeemie]

28. I haven't seen detroit say he'd just kick the cat out. You are being harsh

and not helpful. I am not usually this harsh, but this is ridiculous. detroit is asking for help and you are making judgements. Great job.

For what it's worth. I have a dog, a cat, and two kids. If my son or daughter was ever affected healthwise by one of the animals, sadly, the animal would go. And I adore my animals. detroit is concerned about his child and worried about his cat.

[detroit]

32. Somebody else's problem?

I am not merely "trying to make this somebody else's problem." However, I Do believe that I might not be the best qualified person to solve this. It is possible that, for someone else (somebody with a more secure yard, more time and/or more experience with cats) this might not be a problem at all - at least for long.

[mike_c]

3. is there any reason (traffic, etc) that the cat can't go in and out?

This is NOT normal behavior for cats and suggests that something is seriously wrong. Cats are normally fastidious about hiding their excrement-- it's a hardwired survival trait. They usually don't violate that rule unless upset, stressed, ill, etc. Scent marking is a different matter, but also an indication of the need to change the cat's surroundings or living conditions. When you say "using the basement as a toilet" do you mean urinating, defecating, or both? How long has this been happening? Have you discussed it with a vet? Do you want to try to solve the problem, or just get rid of the cat?

on edit: I raised the indoor/outdoor issue because if it's safe outside, many cats prefer to use a hidden corner of the back yard as a toilet. Again, their instinct is to conceal their excrement from potential predators. They'll spread it out if given the chance to reduce its odor-- they normally work pretty hard to avoid the situation you're describing unless something is wrong.

[detroit]

10. The cat...

...has been urinating, defecating all over the basement. This is despite having a couple litter boxes to chose from. I've had him to the vet. No phyisical problems. But bringing our child home seemed to trigger this. And it isn't like we neglect him. He sits on my wife's lap - sometimes for hours - every night after the kid goes to sleep.

He is, in most ways a good cat. But having nothing we have done (the vet suggested several things) has solved this. And my family thinks keeping this animal is endangering my son's health. So I feel guilt all around - guilt for wanting to get rid of the cat and guilt over NOT sending him away. But if I have to choose the welfare of teh cat or the welfare of my son, the child wins.

[faithnotgreed]

12. does he only use the basement like this? this would make sense

i have a cat with a strong jealous streak (he is jealous of another cat in the household), and he urinated a couple times in the same place just to let us know he wasnt happy with the situation.

so i washed it out very well with soap and water and there is a natural spray that i got from local animal food store, and it gets out these kind of odors. though it takes work to get out cat urine
but for sure if he has used this space as his litter box, he is going to continue since that smell is there. if you cant get out the smell is there somewhere else he can be encouraged to go besides the basement....

it seems if you can focus on this specifically, it could work out
but of course no one wants anything to happen to your child

[jdj]

16. It's the scent of the kid.

Animals do this. He probably thinks, well this is ONE area of the house that is MINE.

One other possibility: Rodents.

If you have mice, the cat may be urinating all around to cover up their scent too. (Believe me, I am dealing with one stinky mouse right now, and he is a musky son of a gun. Oh, Enzyme cleaners, like "Enzyme D" are the best thing in the world to get rid of animal scents, they cost about 3-5 dollars at building maintenance suppliers.

What does your pediatrician say. Forget about your family, (not the kid, the adult busybodies) because if you feel this way now, you will always feel this way about this situation.

I have worked in a vet's office and a med lab, and most parasites that cats get aren't transferrable to humans, or even dogs, they are species specific. The exception is the one pregnant women get from litter pans, I think it is out of urine, (toxoplasmosis?), so they can't change cat litter.

This is SO common when a new member comes into the household, for an animal to mark, remember it is what they do in the wild to mark their territory.

I'd talk to professionals (vet and dr.) about the danger to the child from parasites (wormer is cheap!!!) and forget about these ignorant people, they are not going to have to live with the guilt.

You can google on "no kill shelter" Michigan to see, I'd give best friends shelter a call, they are the biggest and sometimes take in animals in dire situations. But I wouldn't get rid of the cat, he is just honest to God following natural instinct. Many no-kill shelters have alot of animals that just sit in cages all day, which is no life, and a horrible let down for a pet who has had free range. Don't tell any of your relatives, but: TELL YOUR CAT THE SITUATION. Either out loud, or in your head. Tell him what's gonna happen. Give him a chance.

There are millions and millions of children and cats living together in this country, and I don't think their is an epidemic of children sick from cats.

[friesianrider]

24. I'd second this..

"This is SO common when a new member comes into the household, for an animal to mark, remember it is what they do in the wild to mark their territory.

I'd talk to professionals (vet and dr.) about the danger to the child from parasites (wormer is cheap!!!) and forget about these ignorant people, they are not going to have to live with the guilt.

You can google on "no kill shelter" Michigan to see, I'd give best friends shelter a call, they are the biggest and sometimes take in animals in dire situations. But I wouldn't get rid of the cat, he is just honest to God following natural instinct. Many no-kill shelters have alot of animals that just sit in cages all day, which is no life, and a horrible let down for a pet who has had free range. Don't tell any of your relatives, but: TELL YOUR CAT THE SITUATION. Either out loud, or in your head. Tell him what's gonna happen. Give him a chance.

There are millions and millions of children and cats living together in this country, and I don't think their is an epidemic of children sick from cats."

Except for calling the no-kill shelter. THEY DO NOT EXIST TO TAKE IN ANIMALS WHOSE OWNERS are in these types of situations. "Oh, my Fluffy whom I've had for years seems to have a problem, so here...you take him for me".

[friesianrider]

23. It doesn't have to be either or..

Tell your family to stay out of it. It is YOUR animal.

It's obvious your cat loves you and your wife both very, very much. Think how devastated he'd be if you just dropped him off at some shelter!

Your child isn't going to get sick from the cat. I grew up in a household with many kitties (my Mom worked for a no-kill shelter and ended up adopting many) and many had "problems". I never got sick from it. This isn't to say you're imagining that the problem is inconvenient, but how could you just dump your cat off like that? He seems very attached to you and your family and would surely be devastated if you did this to him.

Again, why not just keep the door to the basement closed so oyur child and your kitty stay out?

[detroit]

33. Too many cars, plus

The person who gave me the cat (who, BTW, WAS about to have it killed because she had to move) had the kitty de-clawed. That makes him pretty defenselss. So making him into an "outdoor cat" would not work.

[serryjw]

5. I second that the kitty is jealous.

I assume you have no spent much time with it. How long did you have it before the baby was adopted? Have you tried to integrate the kitty into the house?

if you can't call your local ASPCA or Humane Society for a listing of no kill shelters/

[Demonaut]

6. I have this problem with one of my three cats

so I have two regular litter boxes and one litter maid automatic, he still pees on my clothes and a few areas in my living room but it's not as bad as it was, I agree giving the cat to a shelter is not a solution that would sit well with you over the years but I don't have children.

[kestrel91316]

9. Cat vet here................

I often am the very last person consulted when this sort of thing happens, rather than the first. That much said, you need to take the cat in to a COMPETENT veterinarian who will first attempt to rule out a urinary tract infection before treating for the likely behavior problem. There are drugs to help this sort of thing (I use Buspar), there are feline pheromone diffusers (Feliway Comfort Zone) to help, and your vet should be able to advise on husbandry issues. Use only clumping cat litter (good stuff that clumps hard and no residual ammonia stink - I like Fresh Step Scoopable), NO LIDS ON LITTERBOXES, NO ELECTRIC AUTOMATIC LITTERBOXES, and keep food and water away from the box. Scoop urine and feces daily. Rule of thumb is one box per cat, plus one. Box should be in quiet area when cat can go undisturbed. If he is pooping out of the box, he likely has GI discomfort, probably diarrhea needing to be diagnosed and treated. There is help! The sooner we vets get involved, the more likely we are to have success. It is not ok to unload the cat without making a sincere effort to solve the problem. People who do so (not necessarily you) should not own any more cats until they are prepared to be a responsible, caring owner. I am saying this to DUers at large, not just the original poster. I seek to INFORM and EDUCATE, not pass judgment on "detroit".

[detroit]

13. See posts above

The vet says nothing is physically wrong. I've use several kinds of good litter. The boxes (three of them) are in a quiet places - but he won't use them. I've tried something the vet sold me to put in the litter (Cat Attract - something like that). No help. Have not tried Buspar. I also buy good cat food - Iam's, which my vet likes.

This has been going on for, like, 18 months.

And like I said, I am getting heat for keeping the cat and heat for "daring" to want to send him away. And I feel guilty because of my son because this is such an unsanitary problem and because I've wanted to make a play area for him in the basement, but can't.

Trust me, if I didn't love cats, the kitty would be gone already.

[faithnotgreed]

14. detroit thank you for trying.... here are a couple more ideas

if youre confident in your vets assessment, then it does seem like once he used a space outside the litter box then he just keeps going back which is what animals do of course.
i had this problem myself with my jealous cat

i dont know what youve used to clean the basement but i use a natural spray called

1) natures miracle. it cost $9. its made by pets n people inc in california. phone # is 310 540 3727

it will take effort i know, but perhaps some natural and other cleaners could get out the odors so that you could start over a little?
then maybe you could put something around to discourage the cat from urinating... your vet or other people who have gone through this can be of immense help

2) i would also recommend holisticat.com
they are not just holistic website, but is a large community of people who are seeking and sharing ideas for just this kind of thing. they have a message board and search function

just some ideas.. best wishes.

[jdj]

20. Re: Nature's Miracle.

It's an enzyme cleaner, and like everything else in pet stores it is way overpriced. I didn't know this til I started working for a building mainenance company, and they sell the same stuff in a bigger bottle for $4.00. (32 oz.) There are many different brands, one is the one I said "Enzyme D", but there are others, it can be used on pet odors, in septic tanks, rv's etc..

Companies that have cleaning crews go in buildings sell it in their storefronts, look in the yellow pages under industrial mainenance, or industrial cleaning.

There is nothing like this stuff, I just went over my whole cabin with it today, and I have a cockatiel who poops on my window sill and all I have to do is spray this stuff wait a few seconds and wipe it up. Can't beat it.

[detroit]

21. OK...

I'll try. Honestly, I'd rather not get rid of the kitty. And I've talked it over with my wife who agrees that one more good try is worth it.

Nature's Miracle is probably similar to something else I have been using... it's called Simple Solution. I've been using that to clean up the areas where he had been "going."

I'll talk to the vet about medicating the cat as well.

Thanks for the advice.

[yellowdawgdem]

15. slightly different opinion here

I had an older cat once that developed exactly the behavior you are describing. when I first got her, she was meticulously clean. She was living with a couple across the street who had just had a baby, and they told me she was unhappy about having all the attention shifted over to the baby. She wandered over to my house, and basically stayed, and things worked out very nicely for 3 years or so. Then I moved to a more modern apartment which she never adjusted to. That is when she began doing her business all over the apartment. I basically cleaned up these horrible messes of hers for 5 years. When I finally moved to an apartment she would've liked better, I was afraid to take her there, because by then she was not well, and I just couldn't handle any more of the messes, and the smells, etc. Also it created problems with neighbors.
So I did take her in to my vets and had her euthanized. As hard as that was, I think it was the right decision. However, I do still dream about her sometimes, and miss her. In your case, it might be the right thing to have your cat euthanized rather than given to a pound. There is a chance that the poor little thing could adjust with another person who did not have children. But chances are there is something mentally haywire, and unless there is a physical problem that you can correct, I myself would put her to sleep. Flame away, but I feel it is painless for them, whereas being at the pound would be a terrifying stressful experience, one that is unnecessary. And that is just my opinion.

[faithnotgreed]

17. its important of course to talk this out

for me, i took in another cat. she was stressed a little but adjusted well since we sectioned her off from the other cats (alpha wasnt going to accept her)
so she did ok. i had to move and couldnt take her so i found her another home. at this place, the cat started having some urinating problems so the cat was returned.

in my new setup with her, she had multiple incidents and i was confused by it. but i kept trying to figure out what would be causing the problem. then i looked at what was stressful for her,,,,

once i focused on keeping the litter box very clean and keeping the space fairly quiet for her, she hasnt had any problem
now after awhile of her urinating problem (and foundout she didnt have anything physically wrong with her) in my darkest moments i considered euthanizing as well only because i have several other rescued cats and could not manage the mess this was creating because im in a very small apt. this had become nearly unbearable stressful situation but with my cat anyway, i got very lucky. i dont know that i could have gone through with euthanizing her...

as long as she has access to the clean litter box (i use cedar litter), and its quiet enough so theres not stress, then she has done just fine
but thats just my situation. i know there are all kinds of factors.

sorry for what you went through in caring for your animal and im sorry she had to be put to sleep. i know that was tough

[yellowdawgdem]

19. thankyou

Yes it was tough, and really hard to let her go.

[jdj]

18. Jesus H. Christ!!! I can't believe you are suggesting just to kill her.

Without even giving her a chance at a no-kill shelter or even for adoption by someone else.

Euthanasia is the LAST step, not the first or second.

That said, if the animal is taken to any county shelter as an "owner surrender" most likely it will immediately be euthanized to make room for strays, which the county is legally obligated to to pick up.

"Then I moved to a more modern apartment which she never adjusted to


I'll bet there was a chemical smell in your apartment that she couldn't stand, and was trying to cover it up. Oh well.

[friesianrider]

29. I totally agree, but...

It is much less traumatic for an animal to go to the vet with his family and be put to sleep rather than be dropped off at a strange place, be all alone for three days, then be put to sleep by a total stranger.

It might be for the better anyway, since it looks like the cat doesn't have much choice. It's sad, but this is why people who can't make the lifetime commitments to their pets SHOULDN'T GET THEM.

It isn't harsh, it's a fact. My animals are animals I adopted because no one else wanted them because they have UTIs or some other sort of problem. Guess what? I trained every one of them to use their box and they're all fine now. I wouldn't give up on any one of them for anything in this world. They are as valuable and important to me as my family, and every pet should be treated the same. Again, if you can't handle the fact that these problems might someday happen to your pet, DON'T OWN ANIMALS.

[TXlib]

25. Don't let the cat down in the basement any more.

Keep the cat confined to one room (preferably a bathroom with tile floors that are easy to clean completely) with his food and water, and a litter box.

Get him used to the litter box again, and then give him run of the house upstairs, but keep the basement door closed so he can't go down there.

If he's been doing this for long, the smell will never come out (at least to him), and he'll continue doing it.

[TrogL]

26. Despite what everybody else says

Get rid of the cat. I'm getting rid of mine tomorrow for pretty much the same reasons. I'm moving to a new place and the landlord always said he isn't going to tolerate a non-trained cat. Cats are hard-wired to poo in sand. It's absolutely spooky to watch. I've adopted a number of freshly-weaned kittens and brought them home and dumped them in the litter box saying "it's here" and never had a problem with them ever pooping anyplace else.

If you've got a cat that ignores litter boxes despite everything you've done, there's something fundamentally wrong with it.

[friesianrider]

27. I'm sorry but...

CATS ARE ANIMALS. They are NOT people. They make messes, and they poop on the floor sometimes. If you are not prepared for this to possibly happen DO NOT EVER GET ANIMALS!

I really, really, really hate it when people say they love their animals so much, but as soon as the thing pees or poos on the carpet more than once they've got it kicked out the door or dumped off at a shelter.

I'm sorry but having worked in a no-kill shelter and seen HUNDREDS of people like this, I have ZERO tolerance. Every animal (dog, cat, etc) has the potential to have these sorts of problems, so you may as well assume that someday it might happen before you even take them home. If you can't handle that possibility then DO NOT BRING THEM HOME. Pets are a LIFETIME commitment, PERIOD.

[ScreamingMeemie]

30. I'm sorry but....

I really hate comments like this. You have no idea who this poster is or what they plan on doing. They came here for advice...not a sermon. Shit happens all the time...and you should know that. Shame on my neighbor for dying. She should have known better and not gotten that cat. :eyes: Relax already.

[friesianrider]

37. He posted here asking for advice...

and I gave it to him *shrug* If he didn't want to have people say things like this, don't post it to a message board.

"Shit" happening like YOU, the animal's owner dying, is not the same as "gee, I really am tired of trying to help my cat I've owned for years - so I think I'll just dump him off at a shelter". BIG difference - plain as day. If you can't see that then I can't help you.

[ScreamingMeemie]

31. My kitty does this all the time. We've tried confining him. We've tried

everything. In the end I inspect the house clean up the messes and life goes on...Good luck! I know how stressfull it can be, but I am sure your cat is worth it. :hi:

[radwriter0555]

34. Where is the litter box? In the basement?

If not, PUT it there. Get a fancy closed in one with the filters.

Try different litters. Some cats hate certain litters.

[detroit]

35. I have three boxes

In various parts of the basement.

[faithnotgreed]

36. hi again. you responded to my above posts and i would like to add

first - thank you and your wife for trying.... i know its rough. i have a couple cats who seem highly complicated when you look at them like theyre "just a cat", but when you see them and treat them like a person that they think they are, it does seem to work out some of the rough spots...

second - by any chance could you change the litter youre using in even one of those litter boxes? i remember my mom had a cat who had a similar problem (though his mostly turned out to be physical) but one thing she did was change his litter to cedar or pine litter. it did help encourage him to use thelitter box
and keep it very very clean

third - you agreed to try the enzyme/natural cleaner as i mentioned above, and another poster agreed this stuff works.
just to reiterate, its vital to get out the odor and change other dynamics (litter box material among other things) so that the cat is encouraged to not continue the behavior, because of course with that smell it only encourages him to continue using the basement as his very large litter box

i know there are other details of what is going on and what is thebest way to handle this but i just wanted to cover a couple immediate things you can try
i do think the jealousy plays a part. its weird how animals have advanced personalities just like people sometimes.... and sometimes they present the same problems but its definitely worth it to try to work it out

i wonder how much the child and cat interact... i hadnt seen where you posted about that.


thank you again.... good luck and please do let us know.

[yellowdawgdem]

38. another suggestion

After reading more of these postings, and hearing that the cat is declawed, it seems clear that you should try to find a friend who will take the cat on a temporary basis. This friend could test out whether or not the cat's behavior changed after being out of the situation which is stressing him. If there isn't a friend willing to do this, there might be a cat rescue place with volunteers that could help you out. If the behavior does not improve in a different environment/situation, then I'd say you're in for some problems. There might be some stuff that happened to the cat b4 you got it, that caused some problems, or the cat might be letting you know that it cannot handle the situation, he is too stressed. That seems to be the most common reason when they do that, it is a way of saying they totally can't handle something- whatever.
Another thing you could try is disciplining him as though he were a dog. Stick his nose in the poop, and either slap him lightly on the schnaz, or spray him with a little water.
Also, how old is your cat, could he have kitty alzheimers? Lol.