I'm a Christian and a Democrat

[Red State Rebel]

This post is inspired by the Curt Schilling thread.

Why is bashing Christians/Christianity ok here? If someone praises Allah in public I don't see it posted here followed by a long list of insults. If people want to thank their wife, husband, family, Mom, Dad, that is perfectly fine, but if you thank God for anything you are a "despicable fundie".

There have been numerous threads in other forums reviling Christians - challenging us to defend our beliefs vs. our political views.

Has it ever occured to any of you how hurtful that is? We claim to be a party for everyone - compassionate and caring toward our fellow man, yet for some reason Christianity brings out the monster in some.

Did it ever occur to you that if Pat Robertson was a Muslim he would probably still be just as obnoxious?? If he were an Athiest he would probably still be an A$$hole? Same with Fallwell....

Just as I tell other Christians who my question my friendships with gays - love/judge people for WHO they are, not WHAT they are.
If I get upset with my friend Shannon, I don't go around complaining that all gays are jerks. I deal with Shannon.

Have you ever stopped to think what percentage of the country's Democrats are Christians? John Kerry is - and yes, Catholicism is Christian. I would imagine John Edwards is also..probably 70% of the party (at least) is Christian. Do you really want to alienate that many in the party?

Bringing this back to a personal level....I know I'm not the only Christian in DU, try to think of us before you rip up all Christians or mock our faith because one person ticks you off. I've been here for a while now, and I don't want the reason I leave to be that I am persecuted by my own party for my beliefs.

[tcfrogs]

1. Thanks!!!!

I agree, enough said, you said it all.

[Aristus]

2. Me! I'm a devout Christian and a die-hard Democrat!

I'll always stand up proudly for my faith and my political beliefs.

Liberal like Christ!

[Lefta Dissenter]

3. That's interesting,

because I haven't seen that at all! Perhaps because I'm not a Christian I haven't been as aware of it, or haven't clicked on many of those threads.

This was the most recent Christian-related thread I've seen...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1118803

[Red State Rebel]

11. Here is one to start with....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=1358099

Unfortunately, there have been many others.

[Misunderestimator]

15. Interesting that the only objectionable posts there

are from a new poster who has already been tombstoned and someone else who may have a valid reason to not respect Christianity. There ARE people in this world who have been hurt by Christianity. You can't expect EVERYONE to respect YOUR religion. To make a blanket generalization that it's an accepted and common thing here is absolutely ridiculous.

[Phillycat]

25. Why can't he/she?

I am going to start by reiterating that I have no dog in this fight--I am not a religious person. I suppose I could be called agnostic. But this statement: "You can't expect EVERYONE to respect YOUR religion." seems wrong to me. It seems to me that regardless of what any of our beliefs are, we can expect respect and tolerance on a progressive message board.

[Misunderestimator]

You cannot expect it from EVERYONE. You simply can't.

You can hope for it, you can pray for it, you can wish for it... but it will never happen. How many Christians respect Buddhists, or Jews, or atheists? Certainly not everyone.

And you can't expect everyone on a progressive board to respect everyone else. It just doesn't happen. Personally, I'm happy to have found a place where the MAJORITY respects my rights as a homosexual. I don't go crying about the FEW who don't. And I will never expect EVERYONE to respect me.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

37. it isn't so much about individual respect

it is about the rules that govern this board and the fact that when it comes to slamming religion of any flavor the rules about bigotry are thrown out and the post/thread survives.

theProdigal

[sangh0]

40. We cant' expect everyone to be decent, but we can expect DU to be decent

and not allow religious bigotry

[Misunderestimator]

45. And that's why they have the "Alert" function.

[sangh0]

52. They WERE alerted, and the mods left them there

You make it sound as if everything is OK, even though the evidence of religious bigotry has been laid out in front of you. You take every opportunity to assume that those of us complaining about this have failed in some way, just as you just assumed that these posts weren't alerted on.

Why did you assume these posts weren't alerted on?

[Misunderestimator]

43. I disagree... the threads that defy the rules are locked

It's our responsibility to ALERT on them if we feel they are breaking the rules. The posts that defy the rules are removed. Again... the mods can't do much if people don't alert.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

47. i have alerted and frequently nothing is done

i have taken it to the admin forum...and guess what...

OnEdit : the sheer fact that people in this thread has posted links to NON-LOCKED bigotted CRAP that has been up for days and weeks ought to give you a clue into the effectiveness of alerting...

theProdigal

[sangh0]

48. Wrong

I've posted links to thread that were NOT locked despite the bigotry.

The bigoted posts weren't even removed, and I KNOW that they were alerted on.

[Phillycat]

39. From what I've observed, you have a much better chance of

being accepted as a homosexual here than a Christian does of being accepted as a Christian. It seems to me that no matter which group is being bashed, it's wrong. Just because some are going to do it is no reason to say, "Well, that's okay, because you can't expect EVERYONE to conform." The fact is that speaking out like the original poster did is the way to draw attention to a problem. If it was a gay person talking about how he/she felt persecuted here, I bet nobody would post, "Oh no, not THIS again."

[Misunderestimator]

51. That's absolute Bullshit.

And yes, I myself would post "oh no, not this again" if we had been inundated with ridiculous threads about how we were being bashed here, when we were not.

[sangh0]

55. No, it's absolutely correct, and you proved it

It was pointed out that there is less bigotry on DU towards gays and lesbians than towards Christians, and you confirmed that by pointing out that we don't have threads bashing homosexuals.

[Misunderestimator]

And we don't have threads bashing Christianity either.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

65. i guess those that posted links to such threads

just faked them?

theProdigal

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Phillycat]

68. Whoa, why was my post removed?

I was totally polite. Huh.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

64. that is utter crap

we homos got constantly bashed when gay marriage was all the news...the general feeling was sit down and shut up...

50,000 registered users atleast 10 of them will be assholes

[sangh0]

29. You want high-count DU posters? I got 'em!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1363420#1363453

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1792330#1792624

plenty of 1000+ posters in there

[La Lioness Priyanka]

16. i think this person said of "all organized religion"

[dorktv]

4. I know I am a democrat because I am a christian

Sermon on the mount and all...So to revile all of us because some people in our faith are smegheads is not fair.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

5. i concur with your statements

however I expect this place will continue as before. All of my attempts to sway the admins toward a truly non-bigotted board have met with silence or 'well, calling christians assholes is not bigotted in this situation' or something to that effect.

Good luck with your plea...
theProdigal

[Phillycat]

6. I agree.

And I am not a religious person. I don't like when religious people try to preach to me, but I don't see that happen on DU. Christians on this site don't seem to preach. But lots and lots of people are really rude about Christianity on this site. I've only been here for a couple of months maybe, but that's what I've observed. And I have no dog in this fight.

[Misunderestimator]

7. Oh jeez... here we go again... the bashing is of Fundamentalist

Christians... not you. And why must we always compare it to bashing of gays... who ARE bashed? I'm really tired of this "Poor, poor me... I'm being discriminated against because I'm a Christian." Give me one example, in real life, where you have felt discrimination because of your Christianity. Not here... not what you perceive as bashing from DUers when they are talking about fundamentalists who support our President.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

13. i completely agree

so what if someone says something mean about christians...do you believe tehy are really talking about 'normal' christian or fundamentalists? i think deep within you you know we are talking about fundamentalists...

i am sorry but the outrage of the powerful majority which christians are in this country can never be compared to the real discrimination the rest of us face

[Phillycat]

18. Look at the "Curt Schilling makes me want to puke" thread.

All he said was he prayed for the strength to play, after the surgeons reattached his tendon under his skin. And that makes someone want to throw up. Seems like any whiff of Christianity is stomach-turning for some on this site. Not just about fundamentalists.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

28. there are 50000 registered users

i am sorry if some of them are jerks...however "christian bashing" in america is not a real threat.

[sangh0]

38. SO it's OK because only one or two are being subjected to bigotry?

Wrong again!

As the OP pointed out, the MAJORITY of Democrats are Christians, and every time a DUer engages in bigoted speech against them they are bashing MILLIONS Of Democrats.

[Misunderestimator]

53. No one is saying it's ok. If you alert on something that clearly defies

the rules and you don't feel that it is being handled... then go to the administrators. Don't keep starting more Poor Me threads on this.

[sangh0]

60. Why do you ALWAYS assume we've not done something we should have?

We *HAVE* spoken to the Admins about this. Why did you assume no one has done this? And why do you assume that those posts were NOT alerted on? Why do you ALWAYS ASSUME that those complaining about this have been deficient in some way?

I posted links to two threads that contain what I feel are bigoted remarks towards Christians (and I have more). Did you read them? Did you think any of the remarks were bigoted? If so, then how do you explain the fact that they haven't been deleted?

[Phillycat]

46. I don't think we're talking about America here.

The original poster is talking about the attitude on DU, not of American society in general. From what I've observed, I think he/she is right. And I'm not a religious person.

[Misunderestimator]

56. When a poster starts a thread asking about religion...

you can expect a lot of people here who have been hurt by religion to post their opinions on it, because they are being asked for their opinions. I don't see very many who actually bash Christians. They are relaying their personal experiences.

I myself stay away from that, even though religion was a huge and negative force in my life, and still is since so many Christians do not "approve" of my "lifestyle." Why shouldn't people relay their opinions on it?

[sangh0]

62. You are obviously biased

I don't see very many who actually bash Christians.

I posted two threads with bigoted remarks. If you don't actually LOOK AND READ the threads, maybe then you can keep on saying "I don't see very many who actually bash Christians"

[sangh0]

34. and you are completely wrong

posters, some with 1000+ post counts, have said that ALL religious people are mentally ill.

am sorry but the outrage of the powerful majority which christians are in this country can never be compared to the real discrimination the rest of us face

I'm sorry that someone would think reverse bigotry is any less immoral than any other form of bigotry.

That's why I wouldn't talk about Hindus as being violent when I speak of how the Hindu fundamentalists murder innocent Muslims and just assume you'd know that I'm referring to just the fundies, and not all Hindus.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

42. reverse bigotry lacks power

if you made that statement in india...it would not mean the same thing.

[sangh0]

54. If I made that statement in the Disputed Territories, I'd be murdered

tell me again about how reverse bigotry lacks power.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

67. find some liberal indian friends...then tell them

that you think hindus are just as violent as muslims...and the violence in india perpertrated by hindus is abhorrent...

see what they say! why dont you try saying that to me?

[Red State Rebel]

59. I'm talking about here in DU

I can't change what happens in the rest of the world, all I'm asking is that people here consider what they say. We should be able to represent the best example in here if we expect to see that in the rest of the country.

If people were just criticizing Wacko Right Wing Fundies or a particular individual for something they did - that's one thing, too often people mock Christianity as a whole, or mock a person for his beliefs just because - not because they did or said anything anti Democratic. In DU, we are the minority and the discrimination is very real. I come here to be informed and commune with people who have the same political beliefs. When I come here and see my personal beliefs mocked, it is hurtful.

[MissMillie]

17. Actually,

it was bashing of Curt Schilling... who may or may NOT be a fundamentalist (I'm not sure we know if he is or isn't) . Curt merely thanked God, and the poster on the board this morning says that "makes me want to puke"

[Red State Rebel]

19. Christian is Christian....I consider myself pretty fundamentalist.

Again, all I ask is that you address dislike for people for their individual deeds without lumping them into a group.

Using a shotgun approach to "Fundies" is wrong.

[Misunderestimator]

23. And all I'm saying is that you are taking a VERY few posters'

opinions as if it is the opinion of all of us. And really, it is RIDICULOUS to compare YOUR "persecution" to the very REAL problem of gay-bashing.

[sangh0]

44. It's not "VERY few" and the majority CONDONES it

.

[Misunderestimator]

58. And I call bullshit. It is not the majority.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

66. then it should be stopped

it is allowed to exist here by the very fact that not enough people complain about it. If the admins of this board were innundated with alerts and protests over this sort of thing then you would have a valid point...

theProdigal

[Beware the Beast Man]

20. Not everyone is as eloquent about it as you are, Mis.

I know that about 97.8889% of the time, the derision is placed upon fundamentalists (and rightfully so), but I've seen a lot of blanket generalizations along the way. I wish nothing but love for my fellow people (most of them, anyway), and would never want to see harm to anyone, nor would I impose said beliefs (except for the love thing).

[Magrittes Pipe]

24. "Love"

You hippy. :P

[Beware the Beast Man]

32. Hey, I shave my armpits!

Oh, wait...

[MissMillie]

8. This is eloquent

I am not a christian, but am a person of faith (I can't really put a name to what my faith is, but I have it).

You know, Curt said he prayed not for a win, but for for the strength to give it his best. And in Curt's mind his prayer was answered.

Why does anyone feel the need to knock that down?

[Eumenides]

9. I agree

Knee-jerk characterizations and sweeping generalizations are characteristics of the right and their base and should never be tolerated by liberals. There are numerous Christians and Christian organizations who spend a significant amount working for social justice while their more visible and well known compatriots are busy in restoring the dark ages. We should not lump them all together.

[Wat_Tyler]

10. Why do you care what others say or think? What's the point?

You can't regulate what people will post. If you don't like it, ignore them. I don't think there's half the 'Christian bashing' on DU that there is made out to be. Have you considered that you may be seeing insults where none are intended?

[Red State Rebel]

22. Wow! Anyone who has spent any time reading GD

has seen them. Last year when The Passion of the Christ came out we were mocked and ridiculed for months.

[Misunderestimator]

27. Mocked and Ridiculed for Months?

And what about in real life? Have you EVER been mocked and ridiculed because of your Christianity? Really... I want to know.

[Beware the Beast Man]

33. What does it matter "in real life?"

Is their some martyr complex on DU that I am unaware of?

[matcom]

12. WWWWWWWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

yet ANOTHER great LOUNGE post!

[mac56]

14. I think part of it is because of the religious right.

Like so many things, they've been allowed to set the agenda and frame the debate. For years now they've told their followers that if you're a Democrat, or worse yet a liberal, you can't possibly be a Christian. And many of their followers, though trying and intending to be good Christians, have bought it.

It's unfair, but understandable, to lump all Christians together as a result. I hope this changes soon as progressive Christians get more bold. Forgive them. They know not what they do.

[demosincebirth]

36. when people lump all christians together its not fair.

We ought to specify rw christians or liberal/moderate christians and stop lumping us all with the with the right wing fundamentalist.

[demosincebirth]

50. As a Catholic, my sentiments exactly.

Lets think before we post and consider the many liberal/moderate Christians on this board.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

21. me too!

[Union Thug]

26. I'm one of those "xtian bashers"

I do recognize the link between xtianity and progressive causes in the early part of the 20th century and late 19th century, but I personally think that in the modern world, religion (xtian, jew, islam, hindu, etc...) gets in the way of humanitarianism and social justice. There was a time when I supported what the catholic church was doing, but when they abandoned liberation theology, that was the last straw for my support of any religious organization.

I don't need a religious icon to tell about human compassion. I don't believe any of our great struggles are spiritual. It's an economic war that we are fighting and I think religion's 'pie in the sky' mentality distracts us for the issues that impact our earthly lives and makes us less effective and less aggressive in pursuing economic and social justice.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

35. so it is christianity in particular you dont like

or organized religion?

[Union Thug]

49. Religion...

in general. I'm an equal opportunity 'basher' I suppose.

[scarlet_owl]

30. I am too.

I hate being lumped in with Christian fundamentalists. I'm about the furthest thing from being one of them.

[Aiptasia]

31. I'm a lapsed methodist, but I see the point...

Personally i'm an agnostic, in that something might be "out there" or maybe not, i'm not sure. Half of me says no, half says yes.

However, it's a low down dirty shame that the repukes think they own god outright. I think a lot of dems have been confronted with right wing political propoganda for so long that any discussion of christianity is met with speculation and ridicule.

If someone is flaming you just because you have religion, I think that's wrong. On the other hand, I don't want any bible thumpers to tell me that, "It's god's way or the highway... to hell!" either. I don't think any particular dogma ought to be forced on anyone, and neither does John Kerry.

Even Kerry has conflicts with the Catholic church (abortion rights, etc.). At least he's sane enough to say, "Hey, I belive in god. But I respect the need for a separation between church and state, and that the USA shouldn't be in the business of sponsoring ANY religion."

Remember, there's plenty of non-christians out there that are living truer to the 10 commandments and christ's ideals than actual church going christians. Even soren kierkiggard recognized that fact, it's easier to say you're a christian than to actually live like one.

Who would Jesus bomb, anyway? What I have a beef with is when supposed men of the cloth are/were pro-war, in blind support of the repuke party, because it was popular at the time. I thought the crusades were over a long time ago.

It seems like the only religious leaders that were actually against killing in the name of god were Jessie Jackson, Al Sharpton (both ministers), the bishop Desmond Tutu and Pope John Paul II.

Let's face it, wars fought in the name of god get's religion into a lot of trouble.

[HEIL PRESIDENT GOD]

41. Bashing people or beliefs?

All Christians? That would be a lot of people to bash--I'm wary of taking on even two guys.

But if you think I am going to hell because I don't give a rat's ass about a dead Jew named Jesus, if you believe in the humanity of embryos, hey, even if you honestly think a virgin had a child who got killed and then came back to life, I reserve the right to snicker.

[Misunderestimator]

61. I have to admit that these kind of threads actually make me want to

start talking about why I left Christianity. But then, you'd consider that bashing, wouldn't you? So, I stay away from it... and now I'm staying away from this thread.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

63. bye

[BigMcLargehuge]

69. locked

Let's all count to 10 and cool down.



Thanks,

Big McLargehuge
DU Moderator