I'm Mormon... ask me anything

[LDS Jock]

[GeorgeBushytail]

1. What's the best thing about being a Mormon?

[LDS Jock]

4. the cute missionaries

The fun I used to have trying to corrupt those clean cut boys.

[Texasgal]

9. Is it true that Mormans don't drink

caffine?

[LDS Jock]

29. tea and coffee.. called hot drinks

are forbidden by the Word of Wisdom. Coke and other soft drinks are not forbidden, but holier than thou types like to act like they are and emphisize how rightous they are by obstaining. However, you can still go to the temple and drink Coke. I did.

[spatlese]

32. No warm milk then??

is it the temperature or the caffeine content?

[LDS Jock]

40. the caffeine

I don't know why they call them "hot drinks." The official way it reads in church scripture is "hot drinks are not for the body or the belly" which is even dumber.

[Dookus]

2. Do you really

believe Joseph Smith found golden tablets and a special divining stone with which to read them?

[LDS Jock]

6. personally, no

but that is what the church teaches. I wonder just how many, truthfully, actually believe that. My guess would be not many, similar to how many still believe in Santa Claus.

[Taverner]

78. I have a Mormon friend

Who does not beleive the Joseph Smith story, but belives in Mormonism, in that he believes its the way he came to experience God's love.

Makes sense to me...

[LDS Jock]

94. That would be more like my own view

I have a deep attachment to the church. Do I believe all that it teaches? No. But there is much truth there, and a fantastic system for raising families. There is a feeling of unity there. I have been to many churches, and been members of three, and nowhere have I found a group of people more devoted to living their beliefs. Being part of it makes me a better person, and that is the part I believe in.

[spatlese]

3. Do Mormons really practice polygamy? n/t

[LDS Jock]

12. officially no

Polygamy ended in 1890 by a proclamation from the church president. In reality, it continued sometime thereafter, but no more. For current members, anyone found guilty of polygamy is excommunicated. There are however a number of Mormon fundamentalists, mostly in southern Utah, who still to this day practice polygamy.

[pagerbear]

77. Is it true Utah started cracking down on Mormon polygamy

...to get the Olympics in SLC?

[LDS Jock]

93. lol.. I don't know about that.. but

it sounds like something they church leadership would do. Officially anyone caught guilty of polygamy is excommunicated but rarely are people sought out for this. The chuch is very much into publicity and public image.

[MuseRider]

5. HI!

I am a jack mormon. There are many good things about the Mormon religion. Glad to see you here. I have several Mormon friends who are not Bush* supporters and are voting for Kerry but it seems the majority of the Mormons I know are Bush* supporters. Ahh well, you are here!

[LDS Jock]

15. most of them are blind supporters of *

The republican nature of church sickens me. I stopped going to church back a few years ago when the Church began making donations to pass state amendments against homosexuals. They were the leading contributers to defeat legislation in Alaska and Hawaii over gay marriage and to support the Knight Initiative in California, recognizing only marriages between a man and a woman.

I think its funny they support the republicans now, when it was the republicans who hounded them during the days of polygamy.

[MuseRider]

22. I gotta go but

I would love to talk with you, perhaps a PM sometime. The stance on gays is one of the many reasons I left the church. I just read an interesting book about the Mormon fundies. I think it was called Under the Banner of Heaven. Living in Kansas I understand people who support Republicans against their own best interests. I understand but it but it makes no sense at all. Go figure.

[LDS Jock]

42. sure, lets talk sometime

PMs or messenger... warning.. I have plenty of thoughts about the church and gays though

[HereSince1628]

7. Do you wear vestments?

I love the initials on the nipples and knees.

[LDS Jock]

16. sometimes I wear temple garments

but not often. Here in Texas its too hot to wear so much clothing.

[HereSince1628]

20. Do you like those Masonic-knock off aprons?

Sorry that's more than one question

[LDS Jock]

30. no, i don't like them

the whole temple get up made me feel silly

[HereSince1628]

41. I think you may have rejected your endowment

[LDS Jock]

46. I guess you could say that

I feel like the church rejected me to. I was a good, faithful member for years, (although always a Dem) until they started the whole political thing over gays.

[HereSince1628]

51. Well, I was excommunicated over the treatment of Africans.

The mark of Cain bullshit isn't even consistent with the Pearl of Great Worthlessness (Actually Pearl of Great Price).

Which is interesting to read as a statement of beliefs in the developing American frontier, but translations of the illustrations have demonstrated it is actually nothing what it was purported to be.

Of course those translators were just expert Egyptologists...they had no technological advantage like seeing stones.

[LDS Jock]

58. excommunicated over that?

You spoke out against it any they threw you out? What happened?

[HereSince1628]

62. Well, I spoke out in 1976 a time when blacks were denied the

right to hold any priesthood office...be it Aaronic or Melchezidik (sp?).

They really objected to me standing in Fast and Testimony meetings and stating the church hierarchy was in conflict with the sacred documents of the church.

The straw that broke the camel's back was when I was questioned at a hearing in the stake about whether it was likely that I could percieve a truth that went unknown by the Prophet. My answer was well, that is exactly the sort of false criticism used by the citizens of Palmyra against Joseph Smith.

You could say I was definitely insubordinate. But at the time so were tens of thousands of other Americans who were much disenchanted.

[LDS Jock]

66. good for you for standing up

I truly admire you. To think that doctrine existed until 1978 unbelievable. If more people would have done what you did maybe that crap would have ended years earlier.

[HereSince1628]

70. gotta go ldsjock...nice meeting you

Keep the faith...or not.

[LDS Jock]

72. nice meeting you too

later bud

[Raster]

147. "that doctrine" existed until there were VERY loud voices questioning

the church's racial policies and tax exempt status and a convenient "come-to-jesus" was called for.

[Taverner]

8. Can you bring more Mormons back to the Democratic Party?

They used to be Democrats, and the persecution history should be a natural tie in!

[LDS Jock]

21. I try.. never understand their blind support of republicans

You are right about the past. The church used to support Democrats heavily, due to the persecution by the republicans over polygamy. The church sent one of their apostles throughout the church to convince members they could be both a good Mormon and a republican. At the time, the church was worried about being seen as a one party church. Apparently they no longer are concerned. I try to show members, as I try to show all Christians, how true Christian principles are best represented by the Democratic party. Many are intelligent and well educated. Maybe in time the politics will change back.

I've thought about you since your post the other night Tavener. Hope your situation at home is working out better. :hug:

[Taverner]

69. Thanks :)

BTW...Tigger and Sitka say "Arooo!"

[LDS Jock]

74. I love your dogs!!!

Just so damn cute!!! I would LOVE to cuddle up with those two for the night.

[OKNancy]

10. Does it bother you when people say

bad things about your religion?
( FYI - in all my dealings with the public, and I have a LOT, and with the few neighbors that I know who are Mormon...I have never met a nicer, kinder group of people. I know one Mormon woman who is VP of a bank and going to law school while the husband takes care of the kids. They are Democrats too. Maybe Okie Mormans are more laid back or something)

[TexasLady]

23. no kidding..

never a nicer bunch of folks...

[LDS Jock]

24. yes and no... only when they are ignorant

If someone is knoledgeable and disapproves, so be it. But when people who don't know what they are talking about start attacking it, I get upset.

[Nikia]

11. Are Jesus and Lucifer really twin brothers?

I watched an anti Mormon video and they said that's what Mormons believed.

[LDS Jock]

26. sounds like you watched "the God Makers"

Yes, that is church doctrine, as are we their brothers too. We all lived together in a place called the pre-existance, and everyone who ever lived, including Jesus, as well as all the angels, including Lucifer, were all children of our Heavenly Father (aka God). Lucifer was cast out due to rebellion, and those angels who followed him were as well and are now what are known as demons.

Church doctine. Not necessarily what I believe.

[yardwork]

85. That sounds like what John Milton believed

Or at least that's what he put in Paradise Lost. I don't think he was a Mormon. Lucifer means something about light. He was the chief angel, right next to God. Lucifer and his supporters fell to Hades when they challenged God for the top dog spot and lost.

[JohnKleeb]

13. What do you think of same sex polygamy

Just teasing.

[LDS Jock]

27. lol.. are you coming on to me Kleeb?

just kidding

I open minded about same sex polygamy.

[JohnKleeb]

54. no lol

just a food for thought.

[bigwillq]

14. How come you don't live in Utah?

Isn't that like the mormon capital of the US?

[LDS Jock]

33. I used to live in Utah

It is the Mormon mecca, but actually more members live outside of Utah in the US than in Utah. For instance, it is the second largest Christian demonination in California, Washington, Oregon, Colorado, Montana, Arizona, New Mexico, and Nevada. The largest not only in Utah, but Idaho and Wyoming as well.

[bigwillq]

44. Those are some interesting facts to know

Thanks for sharing.

[miss_kitty]

17. I thought that's what that 'lds' meant in your nickname

did you know I am descended from non-polygamous founding Mormons?

[LDS Jock]

39. no, i didn't know that

who are your ancestors? Hope I haven't made fun of them too much. :)

[miss_kitty]

63. Heh heh

Austins. John Ezra and 5 sons. I'm descended from the tearaway son, John Leslie, Some went to Alberta (the Mcgrath Austins) and some went to south western Wyoming-that's where my part ended up. But they started the sugar company that the Mormon Church now owns and financed the building of many tabernacles, stake houses water systems and roads. Their descendants are all over Utah. Some of us were lucky enough to escape, though. :evilgrin: I'm sure I've been baptised by proxy.

[TexasLady]

18. well hello fellow mormon

and fellow texan..

hmm...AND i was a jehovah's witness, a mormon, a baptist, unitarian, and even a nazarene...was baptized in all of em(except unitarian)...figured id cover all bases...

i really liked that book from the mormon woman who died and came back.....she made a lot of money, and reminded me of Sylvia Brown...

now i am just a dem junkie, and spiritual..dont care for organized anything, but do my best to respect em all...tho the repuke fundies make that hard as hell sometimes..

whats the difference between a northern baptist and a southern baptist?

northern baptists say there is no hell, southern baptists say the hell there aint!

[spatlese]

25. Mormon Church in Houston

Have you been to that GI-NOR-MOUS mormon church (sorry if you don't call it a church) in houston? it looks really pretty from the outside!

[TexasLady]

28. i have lived in houston

but have never been...sounds kewl to see tho!

[LDS Jock]

35. the temple? no i haven't been to that one

I've been in others, but not that one, and probably never will be. I don't exactly live the life of someone who would get a temple recommend. A temple recommend is what you have to have to be admitted. You get it from your Bishop and Stake President who certify your rightousness to enter. You get one by not drinking tea, coffee, or alcohol, no sex or masterbation, paying 10% for tithing, supporting leaders without question and other stuff like that. I don't really fit that description these days.

[spatlese]

37. Wow! So you can't just...

walk into a temple and pray/worship there??

[LDS Jock]

48. oh no!!!!

You have to be approved to enter the temple. That is where all the sacred ordinances are done. Can't let the outsiders see those or you might be shocked. Anyone can go in the churches, but temples are for members only, although before they are dedicated they have open houses for people to tour them.

[spatlese]

50. REALLY stupid question

But I am curious.. (and don't really wanna Google it)

What is the difference between a church and a temple?? :shrug:

[LDS Jock]

56. the difference is

a church is also known as a meeting house and is where the Sunday services are held. They are open to everyone. The temple is where ordinances are performed, both for the living and the dead. You may have heard about the doctrine of baptizing the dead. That takes place in the temples. You also go there to receive your endowment, which is a ceremony about the creation of the world and some other stuff. It is long and boring and you get dressed up in bizarre outfits.

[LDS Jock]

34. you know why baptist don't believe in premarital sex?

they are afraid it might lead to dancing

[elfwitch]

19. Are you going to buy Mike Allred's comic book about the Book of Mormon?

It sounds and looks like it is going to be pretty cool.

[LDS Jock]

36. I don't know anything about that

never heard about it

[elfwitch]

53. Look at it here...

http://www.aaapop.com/main.html
It seems pretty cool.

Also look at this
http://www.newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13379

[Bluebear]

31. Why do Mormons oppose civil unions?

I understand if they don't cotton to gay marriage, but what's it to them about civil unions which are a legal, not sacred contract? Please consult the mother church and get back to me LOL.

http://www.365gay.com/newscon04/10/102004ldsAmend.htm

[LDS Jock]

38. I don't know why.. just a way to act righteous

You would think a group persecuted for how their own beliefs differed from traditional marriage would be more tolerant of others in the same situation.

[Bluebear]

45. That's an excellent answer on so many levels

:toast:

[DS1]

43. Were you ever my VP of Software Development?

He was a mormon, he could be you...

[LDS Jock]

49. nope, not me

Wish I had a job that good. Was he a Mormon Democrat too?

[DS1]

55. Oh yeah, still is, good guy, in fact he's the only dude in MN

that has any of my respect.

[flamingyouth]

47. No question for you, but my mom's family is all Mormon

They've on the whole been very open to her decision to leave the church. She is very close to her aunts, uncles and cousins.

Her uncle Wayne is awesome. He used to a be a nuclear physicist at Hanford in eastern Washington, but he's retired now. He's only six years older than her, so they practically grew up together. I love talking to him about history, science and philosophy. I've always appreciated his willingness to accept my decision to not join the church.

[LDS Jock]

52. glad to hear they are accepting

Most stories like yours turn out much differently. Many people in the church see it as a rejection of them and one step on the way to "hell in a handbasket" and turn away completely.

Question back to you... are they militant republicans?

[flamingyouth]

59. Yeah, they pretty much are

But they really love my mom, and they know she's a militant Dem, so they have a mutual respect. Mom complains about them sometimes, and I'm sure they probably do the same amongst themselves, but on the whole, they're very close.

I visited SLC when I was a kid, and I was lucky to get a four-generations photo with my mother, my grandmother and my great-grandmother, who died shortly thereafter. I really loved visiting the Tabernacle. And as I genealogy nut, I cherish my documented family history that goes all the way back to the Mayflower. One of my distant relatives published a big book on our family a few years back. :hi:

[underpants]

57. Bob from accounting here, we have a bit of a problem about your tithing

My wife is in Salt Lake City right now. North SLC-industrial craphole.

I spent a week in SLC and I thought it was great.

Are you in SLC?

[LDS Jock]

60. oh I haven't paid tithing in forever.. since before

I had any kind of decent income :) I used to live in SLC and loved it in many ways. I don't want to live there though. Just too much church, you know?

Much happier here in Austin, TX. One of our nicknames is "the San Francisco of Texas." A much better fit for me than the Mormon Mecca.

[ikojo]

61. Why do Mormons baptize dead people?

I was talking to a co-worker and she found out that a distant relative of hers had been "sealed" in death. She said he'd be surprised to be a Mormon because he was a hard drinker and often fell down drunk.

Also, a few years back the Mormon Church got into some hot water with Jews for baptizing Jews who had died in the Holocaust.

[LDS Jock]

64. let me try to explain

Yes, they do baptize for the dead. The church believes everyone must be baptized in order to go to heaven. For those who never had the opportunity to be baptized, ordinances are done for them in the temple. This is supported by I Corinthians 15:29 and some other passages but explaining them would take pages. Doing the baptism doesn't mean the person accepts it. It only makes it available if they choose too. After this life, if they haven't had the chance to learn of the church they are given a chance in what is called paradise. It is somewhat similar to purgatory in Catholic theology. It is not a second chance though. If someone rejected the church in this life they are not given a chance in paradise.

Again, this is church doctrine, not necessarily what I believe.

[TheCentepedeShoes]

121. My Mormon mother

had that done to my late grandfather (her father) and I found it a little disturbing. My GF was a devout Christian (deacon in his Baptist church) and I thought it was insulting to his "reality" I guess you'd call it. But I think the whole exercise had more to do with my mother's rather narcissistic personality than any true belief.

[HereSince1628]

65. Well, because you have to sit in a bowl supported by 12 ox

in order to get into heaven.

WHY THE HELL ELSE WOULD YOU DO IT?

[LDS Jock]

67. 6 oxen and mirrors in the newer, smaller temples

the mirrors give the illusion of 12. Those cheap old bastards are always trying to save a buck.

[HereSince1628]

68. hahahahahahahah!!!! I also heard the presentation was taped

instead of acted out by live temple volunteers.

Mormons, they are soo......efficient!

[LDS Jock]

71. oh yeah.. been taped for some time now

I think it is live only in SLC and Manti. All other temples are taped. One version of it has the hottest guy playing Adam. I didn't want him to eat the apple and get dressed.

[Logansquare]

73. Is there really such a thing as "Mormon time?"

Reputed as being late for everything ;-)

[LDS Jock]

75. yes, people use that term in church all the time.. I prefer the old joke

about how an airplane was about to land in Salt Lake City. The captain comes on the intercom and informs the passengers "we are preparing to land shortly. Please set your watches back twenty years."

[LDS Jock]

76. gotta go.. Lost is on.. be back later

to answer more questions

[pagerbear]

81. Here's a question, LDS!

Will you marry me?

[LDS Jock]

95. silly pagerbear

I need lots of cuddling and Dr. Pepper. Can you provide that? If so, maybe we can strike a deal. :P

[pagerbear]

101. Anything for you!

Especially the cuddling part!

[newsguyatl]

79. have you lost your virginity yet?

if you're not married, that's like a cardinal sin eh?

[LDS Jock]

87. Yes, I lost it some time back..

but don't tell anyone. It will just be our little secret.

[thestatusquo]

80. Is it true that you can become a god

of your own world when you die, if you are holy enough?

[LDS Jock]

88. yes, that is doctrine

although when explained it doesn't sound so bad. If you are interested I can refer you to a website which explains it.

[ronnykmarshall]

82. Can you show us ...

that hot picture of your abs again?

[LDS Jock]

89. silly Ronny.. yes.. here it is

wanna rub my tummy?

[ronnykmarshall]

102. Priase! GLORY!!

[redqueen]

140. Sweet!

Thanks, lds... and thanks ronny for askin!

[ldf]

83. are mormon guys

circumcised?

just askin'.

:-)

[LDS Jock]

90. yes and no.. not official doctrine either way

as for whether or not I am.. buy me a margarita and I'll show you

[miss_kitty]

84. Was Lost good tonight?

It'll be on in 15 minutes here...I'm watchin'! :)

[LDS Jock]

91. yeah, it was good.. I wish

it were longer. It just seems to get going good and then its over. Plus, I wanna see more of Jack :P

[miss_kitty]

108. oh I'm into the dark english guy who plays the Iraqi who happens to

like older women in his real life (drama teacher when he was 16, now 35 and living with Barbara 'Does this collegen make my lips look fat?' Hershey-who is several years older than me. Rowrrrrrr!

You might be able to see it on Saturday-ABC is running 2 Episodes on Saturday...

[LDS Jock]

110. he is hot too

he's english?

[miss_kitty]

136. Yeah- i can't remember his parentage

but he was born in old blighty...Naveen William Sidney Andrews-sounds mostly English, dunt it? I am thinking 'India' for at least two grandparents...

[no name no slogan]

86. What a great thread!

Here's a question: do the Mormons have any public standing on the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (RLDS)? Is there any sort of "communion" between them?

The reason I ask is that I had a long-term girlfriend in college who was RLDS, and thought about converting for a while.

(for the majority of you who have no clue as to what the RLDS is: it is an offshoot of the LDS that did not accept Brigham Young as the church leader after Joseph Smith's murder, and stayed behind when Young led the Mormons into the west).

[LDS Jock]

92. There is communication between them, but little else

Over the years they have grown further and further apart. The RLDS church changed its name a few years back to the Community of Christ. The LDS view of them are as people who are misinformed on doctrine and need to be corrected. If an RLDS person wants to join the LDS church, they would need to be taught the missionary lessons and be rebaptized. Many members of the LDS church think those who formed the RLDS church were just too proud to accept the "Lord's will" in choosing Brigham Young to lead the church. Many of the original RLDS were relatives of Joseph Smith's, including his wife, children and mother. They believed the next leader of the church should come from their family. I'm rambling, but to sum up, the view is of those who rebelled against the truth church, whose priesthood is now invalid, and who must be taught and baptized into the church.

[no name no slogan]

115. Gotcha. Makes sense to me.

Yeah, I know that even in the RLDS (Community of Christ) that they've moved away from the Book of Mormon quite a bit. I know they used it in church once in awhile, but that was about it. The RLDS folk I knew were also quite critical of Joseph Smith in many respects, although they still considered him the founder of the church.

Thanks for the great thread!

[FlemingsGhost]

96. Is it true the guilded statue on all Mormon churches ...

point in the direction of Salt Lake?

It's Gabriel, right?

Are you, or any of your brothers, named Gabriel?

[LDS Jock]

97. Its Moroni on top of the temples

He is someone from the Book of Mormon. Moroni was also the angel who appeared to Joseph Smith to restore the church to the earth in the 1800s. I actually don't know anything about the direction the statues face. My immediate thought is of trying to remember which direction the Moroni statue faces on the SLC temple. I believe it faces east but not sure. No one in my family is named Gabriel or Moroni for that matter.

[Seabiscuit]

98. OK. Why on earth are you Mormon?

[LDS Jock]

99. its more a cultural thing for me

And why not be? The church is where I learned of religion. Religion is so fused with my upbringing I don't know where or how to separate them, or why I would want to. I don't believe any doctrine blindly these days, but find comfort in many parts of church. With both of my parents now gone, I find it a place of comfort reminding me of family and growing up. Plus, when I go to church there are lots of cute guys.

[Seabiscuit]

100. Reminder of parents... cute guys... OK, I get it.

[Rambis]

103. Have you started populating your spirit planet with spirit children yet?

How is god on his planet Kolob? This is one freaky cult folks. Run away!

[LDS Jock]

104. fuck off

So you don't believe in it. Do you have to attack it and others in it?

[Name removed]

109. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LDS Jock]

111. I didn't realize you were God's spokesman

you talk to him just like bush does

[JVS]

105. How tolerant is the Church of LDS of people who no longer strictly...

adhere to its teachings. Can you be cast out? How much slack is cut?

[LDS Jock]

106. not all that tolerant

but they don't kick people out very often. They will warn you first, allow you to straighten up, and then excommunicate you if you don't. If there is publicity involved, excommunication will be almost immediate. The church is very concerned with its image. Also, since the church wants as many members as possible, they won't search for you to excommunication. I'm gay, its no secret, but no one comes after me. If I still went to church regularly, I might be if they found out what all I have done.

[JVS]

107. Yeah, I think that a lot of religions are no cattle all hat with excomm...

unication.

Gotta keep those numbers high!

[CanuckAmok]

112. No question from this dyed-in-the-wool Atheist...

But I don't have a problem with anyone who has made a intellectual, critical choice to participate in a faith, regardless of what it is. Like you.

I have some Mormon friends, and I quite like them. They are personally quite tolerant of gays, etc... Perhaps the Canadian arm of the LDS Church isn't as fundamentalist as the US one. Or maybe it's just their Stake which is somewhat liberal.

Footnote: the dad in the Mormon family I know best is exactly like Ned Flanders; Scoutmaster, moustache, glasses, sweaters... everything.

[LDS Jock]

113. I love your avitar pic.. cracks me up every time

I don't believe all the church teaches, but it is still somewhat my spritual home. I think it probably is more tolerant in Canada. Even in the US, I've noticed a difference in levels of tolerance between churches in Utah, California, and Texas. The tolerance level in Los Angeles would shock SLC.

[CanuckAmok]

114. No, wait.... I DO have a question:

What's the deal with Jesus and the North American Indians? What does Waco, Texas have to do with it? Did you know that "Waco" means "White God" in the local aboriginal language?

Actually, that's more than one question...

[LDS Jock]

116. the official church doctrine on that

The Indians are decendants of Israelites who came to America around 600 BC. After Jesus was crucified in the movie "The Passion of the Christ" he came to the Americas and taught the people who lived here, since they wouldhave no other way to learn about him. That is what the Book of Mormon is about. I know nothing about Waco meaning white people or any connection with the Mormon church there. Sorry.

[Selwynn]

132. I love you! :)

Some of my best friends in the world are atheists who don't care that I am not... great people ! :)

[MaryBear]

117. What is taught about African Americans?

What place do they and other people of color have in the LDS religion?

[LDS Jock]

120. That is a tough topic

and there is no reason it should be, but here goes. Until 1978, blacks were not allowed to go to the temple or hold the priesthood in the church. They were however allowed to be baptized and join the church, and of course pay tithing. :) In 1978, the president of the church received a "revelation" declaring the priesthood could now be given to men of all races, and the temple available to all. It was well received in the church and many members will go out of their way to make formerly banned people feel welcome. It is very sad this existed ever, and to think it was only 26 years ago is astounding. Members felt shame over it and don't like to talk about it. There are a number of theories on why it finally changed. You can believe the church version, which is the revelation one. There is also the fact the church built a huge temple in Brazil, apparently not realizing with the mixing of the races there that no one would be around to use it. There are rumors too that the government was about to do away with the church's tax exempt status over this and this is what brought about the revelation. Whatever the reason, the church resisted this until it could no longer stay with it. For a church which claims devine revelation as a guiding force in its doctrine, this particular teaching is the most damning of all.

[MaryBear]

139. All MEN can be - but no women in priesthood?

Why?

[LDS Jock]

142. tradition.. good reason, huh? actually

they claim since there is no record of Jesus ordaining women in the Bible, so no women are to be ordained today. Not saying I agree with it, but that is the reason.

[Cuban_Liberal]

118. How about your yahoo ID?

;)

[LDS Jock]

119. check your PM

I will send it now.. glad to see you back on.. been a long time sexy

[matcom]

122. i lived in SLC for 4 years

your all nuts

[LDS Jock]

123. you have a walking butt for your signature

and you are calling me nuts?

[matcom]

134. yup n/t

[JVS]

124. Would you be bothered by a copy-cat thread?

Because the title of this thread has some interesting possible variations

[LDS Jock]

127. no, in fact, this was a copy cat thread n/t

[Worst Username Ever]

125. What's up with the funny male underwear?

[LDS Jock]

128. men and women both wear it

We call them temple garments. After someone goes through the temple and receives your endowments, you wear garments with symbols on them to remind you of the covenants you made during the endowment ceremony. The endowment ceremony is a ritual about the creation of the earth as well as learning what is needed in order to make it to heaven. The garments are white, like a white t-shirt and boxer like briefs for the men. For women, I don't know exactly what they look like. Both have markings on them, one above the right knee, over the belly button, and on both sides of the chest. Each symbol is different and refers to a commitment made to live your faith and is to remind you daily of those commitments.

[Worst Username Ever]

130. Ah-HA.! Thank you!

[medeak]

126. sex in heaven? secret handshake?

Is that true? the more children one has they get to a higher level in heaven and the highest level attained is able to have sex in the after life?

Surrounded by Mormons where I live... don't know if they were pulling my leg or not.

Oh yeah...and if there is a secret handshake would really like to know for business purposes. :-)

[LDS Jock]

129. let me try to explain it

Sex in heaven. Yes, that part is true, more or less. The church teaches that in heaven we are still married, just like on earth, assuming our marriage took place in a Mormon temple. Part of a heavenly, or celestial, marriage is to produce spirit children. They will be given their own chance to come and live a mortal life, just like we had. If they live it worthily, they return to heaven to be with us. The more children you have has nothing to do with the highest level in heaven. The church teaches three levels of heaven, and one of the things needed to make it to the highest level is to be married for time and eternity in a Mormon temple. There are secret handshakes, several of them in fact, but they would be no use to you in business. If you were to use one on someone outside the temple they would draw back in horror. Believe me, I've done it before for the shock value. :evilgrin:

[medeak]

135. what's with the large families?

if there's no reward in heaven...is there pressure to produce "spirit children"?

Seems like all the homes in SLC look like arks..they are so enormous.

edited to ask...always heard rumors about those missions...two years is a long time to be alone with just guys.

[LDS Jock]

137. the children you produce here

aren't your spirit children. They would be your spirt brothers and sisters, spirit children of God. Before this world ends, all the spirit children need to have had a chance to live on earth and prove themselves worthy to live in heaven. That is why it is so important to have lots of children here now.

I've heard lots of rumors too. I'm sure some of them are true. I used to hang around them a lot a few years back. We would get into these wrestling matches which were as good as sex to me. They had so much pent up frustration.

[derby378]

131. Question: Storm Rosa, MD (Cleveland, OH)

Rosa was a maverick homeopathic physician who graduated the first homeopaths west of Pennsylvania at the Eclectic Medical Institute of Cleveland back in 1850. I heard he was at least a passing acquaintance of Joseph Smith, but was Rosa a Mormon or an early critic of the LDS?

[LDS Jock]

133. wow.. your question is too hard.. I don't know

anything about that. Sorry.

[Rambis]

138. I'm sorry

Making fun of a religion was wrong.

[LDS Jock]

161. its alright, water under the bridge now

far too often religion divides people. I think if we all understood each other better and tried to see other's viewpoints, it wouldn't happen as much. One of my favorite sites is www.religioustolerance.org Check it out if you haven't before.

[harper]

141. I've heard that the Mormon church is one of the largest landowners

in the state of Nebraska. This was in a local newspaper article about the amount of land the church owns locally here in my hometown, which is not a center of Mormon life. Does anyone know just how many assets the land holds? I mean, if you all tithe ten percent that must add up to a tidy sum.

[LDS Jock]

146. Here are some figures

First, you mention Nebraska and land holdings. I'm not sure where you are, but if you are in the Omaha area, that is a place the church once was located. North of downtown Omaha they set up a temporary city refered to as Winter Quarters. It was established after they were driven from Illinois and it served as a temporary location until members could make their way west to what is now Utah. The church owns a temple there, a cemetary and some other land of historic vaule for them. I don't know the amount or value of it however.

You mention tithing. In the book "Mormon America" published in the mid 90s, yearly tithing was estimated to run about $5.3 billion. Another $600 million yearly comes in from investments. They have in investment portfolios alone worth $1 billion, and own Beneficial Life worth $1.6 billion, Bonneville worth $350 million. Farms, ranches and other real estate valued at $5 billion. Deseret Ranch alone, a 312,000 acre ranch outside Orlando is worth $858 million. Total acreage is estimated at about one million acres of farmland. The vaule of land with church buildings, such as meeting houses and temples is estimated at an astounding $18 billion. Altogether, assests were estimated at $25-30 billion. Again, this was in 1995, and estimates were deliberately estimated on the lower end to avoid exageration. This is not from church sources since they don't release the information publicly but estimated from various sources by the authors of the book and confirmed with data from a report from the newspaper Arizona Republic.

Hope thats not too much info. I find it fascinating. All that money tax free.

[DrWeird]

143. How much does racism still play a part in the Mormon Church?

Is it lying just under the surface or have they done a good job in weeding it out?

[LDS Jock]

148. largely it is gone

but of course, just like the country in general, there is still room for improvement. For those of you outside the church, let me explain something. People in the church tend to view people in two categories -- members and non-members. Whether the member is black, white, Asian or whatever, they are all still members. Many members view each other as different from everyone else. Not better, just different. We each go through so many of the same things and the common experiences bring about a sense of peoplehood. So, within the church it is pretty non-existant. Outside of it, more of a problem. However, the members of the church in general are fairly well educated and as such know stupid it is. There is also still a great shame about the past treatment of blacks, but it is rarely voiced because of that shame. Its almost like if no one says it then it doesn't really exist.

There I've gone on rambling again. :)

[Chicago Democrat]

144. How come Mormons are all so cute and happy?

Or where do they hide all the ugly, unhappy Mormons?

[matcom]

145. salt lake

never met a Mormon in the 4 years i lived there that was decent

[Raster]

149. Eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow you may be in Utah.

Old Jack-mormon proverb.


"And lo, thereith we wereith in the root cellar hiding from the unclean murderous savages. And behold through the grace of our lord jesus christ we were saved, my mother, my sister and I. The two of us were spared..."

The Book of Moron

[LDS Jock]

150. prozac helps.. ok, here is my real opinion

I hate to say it, but much of it is a front. Members seem obsessed with presenting to the public and trying to fool themselves that everything is perfect in their lives. A form of denial. Not that everything is horrible, but lets face it. Life is not all sunshine and rainbows. As for cute, you must like the fresh scrubbed, wholesome kind of look. I like it too.

[Raster]

151. I LOVE that cute little, missionary man look....

I'll let you tell me about your funny little book if you show me your underwear!!!

[Raster]

153. Is that a urim and thumum in your pocket, or are you just glad to see me?

[Chicago Democrat]

152. Thanks...

You are a really cool Mormom.

[LDS Jock]

154. thanks

:pals:

[Chicago Democrat]

155. My gay mormon friend was excommunicated

and basically thrown out by his family. He wend to Chicago and gay people took care of him.

I always thought that was a bit harsh. Apparently there are a number of deep cover gay Mormons. I'm Catholic and frankly you would almost get the idea that gay stuff is okay it is so rampant in our clergy. I myself was approached by gay priests on more than one occasion. At the time I was like.."but you're a priest! Aren't you supposed to be celebate?" And the priest was like..."Well its no different, really, than a married person cheating on his wife" That didn't really convince me...So basicallly we played run around the couch at Loyola's jesuit residence. So anyway, I almost grew up with the impression that gay was okay, just a little sin, which we of course all do and only us Catholics can be forgiven through confession.

So I guess my question is about being gay and being Mormon; you know any?

[LDS Jock]

158. well, I've met quite a few

I've known people who have been excommunicated, and I've known others who underwent "reparative therapy" to set themselves straight, so to speak.That is another topic altogether. It is certainly not a church policy or tradition to disown family members if one happens to be gay. Thankfully my family was not that way at all. In some places, there are groups for gay Mormons. When I lived in Salt Lake City, I met my first boyfriend at one. Turns out he was a loser, but thats another story too. :)

[pagerbear]

156. Aughhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!! It's the thread that would not die!

[Chicago Democrat]

157. this is an interesting topic. Mormon's are the most successful19th century

.. 'ahem' cult, or experimental community..

[Radical Activist]

159. and with all the, ahem, slander, prejudice and misconceptions out there

it makes the topic even more interesting. It is one of the more misunderstood religions in the US.

[LDS Jock]

162. there are a lot of misunderstandings about the Mormon church

and its members. Some based on truth, some on lies, and some on a mix of the two. I hope in answering some of these questions people might understand it a little better. I'm not asking for anyone's approval, but understanding and tolerance would be great.

[Patiod]

166. You have it way worse than the Quakers

Generally, people think we're Amish or have some misconception about us and cereal.

At least people don't assume we are all polygamous....

[LDS Jock]

172. You're Quaker? I love your people's oats!

just kidding. I don't know much about Quakers actually. Is there a website you recommend as a good place to learn about them?

[Patiod]

178. Why, thanks for asking!

I knew someone would make the Oats comment.

You can find out everything you ever wanted to know (and more) about Quakers at www.quaker.org.

There are basically 3 brands of Quaker: Friends General Conference
Friends United Meeting and Evangelical Friends International. Or Liberal, Moderate and Conservative. Or Eastern, Midwestern and Western. Some attend unprogrammed Meetings, where we wait for the spirit to move us before anyone speaks, and some attend much more programmed meetings that would be comfortable for anyone who is an evangelical Christian. The one thing we all share is a Peace Testimony.

I'm the FGC/Eastern/Liberal type. Unprogrammed meetings. Way too many Birkenstocks for attending chuch (in my raised-catholic opinion). And 95% Democrat.

[LDS Jock]

183. thanks for the link

I'm looking forward to roaming all through it tonight when I'm not at work and have the time to properly focus. I love reading about other churches and beliefs. I might be PMing you with a few questions.

[LDS Jock]

160. I know.. it was just a copy cat thread.. but boy it took off

Its been fun more or less, other than two posters who had no question, only insults.

[pagerbear]

168. It's because you're so damn popular, LDS!

[slinkerwink]

163. Have you seen the gay movie "Latter Days?"

It's this cute gay movie about how this playboy in West Hollywood seduces a cute Mormon missionary.

[LDS Jock]

167. No I haven't but I want to

I've seen the ads and it looked interesting.

[Radical Activist]

164. Why do you think Utah turned Republican

it started out as a socialist theocracy that voted for FDR.

Mormons outside the mountain west seem much more diverse politically than in Utah. I grew up in a LDS congregation that was split almost 50/50 between Dems and Repugs, and it wasn't in a liberal area.

[LDS Jock]

169. the church was concerned about being a one party church

in the 1890s and sent out Mormon apostle John Henry Smith to congregations throughout Utah to convince them it was possible to be a good Mormon and a republican. Until that time, members of the church had no interest in the republican party due to the republican persecution over polygamy. Smith's trip to encourage a two party system was very successful and shortly afterwards republicans were competitive in local politics. These days it is much like it was in 1890 only the parties are reversed. Somehow I don't see the church sending out a spokesman to convince members to vote Democrat.

[GreenPartyVoter]

165. You ever get tired of being told you aren't a "real" Christian? *l*

[LDS Jock]

170. YES!

First, most people don't have a clear understanding of the church, certainly not enough to condemn it. Second, even if you are knowledgeable about the church, that doesn't give authority to declare it a cult and non-Christian. Why? Because religion is faith, not a proven fact. As such, my faith, your faith, or anyone's faith is just as legitimate. Since faith cannot be proven, the superiority of one faith over another or the "truth" of one faith over another cannot be proven.

[GreenPartyVoter]

175. I figured you were. *hugs*

[WI_DEM]

171. I have a friend who is a liberal Mormon

and I like her and she likes me, on one issue though she is pretty fundamentalist--if we were ever to get together in marriage, I would have to convert. Of course that is difficult to do into any religion, but out of curiosity how does it work? What would I have to do if I did convert?

[LDS Jock]

173. The conversion process works like this

You meet with two missionaries who teach you about the church, its doctrines and a little bit of history thrown in too. Most likely the missionaries will be two young men around twenty years old who have taken two years of their life to volunteer for missionary service. The missionaries have a set of six lessons they present. You will also be expected to attend services as well. Services tend to be rather long. On Sundays there is a three hour block of services. It could be in the morning or the afternoon, but will not be during the evening. There are no midweek services. After the lessons if you want to join, they will set up a baptism date. You baptism can be as private or public as you want. It is baptism by immersion, not sprinkling, and everyone is required to be baptized, even if previously baptized in another church. After the baptism, you will be confirmed by several elders of the church laying hands on your head and giving you a blessing. After that, you are a full member and every bit as much as if you were an Osmond.

If you want to read more about the church, its beliefs or get some free stuff, you can get it here. www.mormon.org

[WI_DEM]

182. Thank you

[Raster]

191. You forgot to mention that if you try to boink the missionaries...

...all bets are off.

Unless of course you tie them to beds and keep them as sex slaves.

[barb162]

174. do you tithe and how many hours are you in church on Sunday?

[LDS Jock]

177. I haven't been going for a while now

so I'm not tithing right now. I did at one time though. Church services on Sundays are about three hours in a row, either in the morning or afternoon. There are no midweek services.

[Bog Frog]

176. Where did you find a puppy with two asses?

;) Cute photo.

[LDS Jock]

180. image search on google

for samoyed puppies. It was just so cute I had to use it for a signature pic.

[Phillycat]

179. I want to say that this thread has been wonderful to read.

You are extremely knowledgable about your church's doctrine, you've been exceedingly polite, and so have the questioners (with one notable exception). Thanks for taking the time. I would be quite surprised if anyone who read the whole thread didn't learn something they hadn't known before. I know I did.

[LDS Jock]

181. well thank you!

I'm glad you got something out of it. I don't know I was that polite, telling someone to fuck off, but if you say so :)

[Phillycat]

184. Well, he deserved it.

He was rude first. :)

[Love Bug]

185. Do you have to like the Osmonds to be considered a good Mormon?

Just kidding! :evilgrin:

[LDS Jock]

186. Actually yes you do

and wear purple socks like Donny used to.

[Dzimbowicz]

187. I'm not very religious

as a matter of fact I'm agnostic. However, my question is this: I am a high school teacher and have several Mormons. One told me that "when I die I will have my own planet." What does this mean? Is this teenager fantasizing or is this really what is believed?

[LDS Jock]

188. this is going to sound shocking, but here it is

What you are refering to is the doctrine of eternal progression. A Mormon apostle, I forget who, summed it up as this -- "As man is now, God once was; as God is, man may become." How is God viewed now? As a perfect being, full of all power and knowledge. The church also teaches our spirits existed before we lived on earth. They existed in heaven and were spirit children of God and our heavenly mother. Yep, thats right, our heavenly mother. Now where does the planet come in? Well, if you live a worthy life here on earth, be baptized in the church, and marry in the temple, when you die you will progress to the highest of the three levels of heaven. It is refered to as the celestial kingdom. From there, you and your wife, whom you married in the temple for time and eternity, we being creating your own spirit children. You create your own world as a place were your spirit children can receive bodies and prove themselves worthy to return to heaven, or hopefully advance to the celestial kingdom just like you did. The same thing happens over and over again.

You can read more about it here in much better detail and a better presentation. I just tried to sum it up as condensed as I could.

http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_theosis.shtml

and all about doctrines here

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/2671/EC.html

[Dzimbowicz]

189. Thanks

Your answer was very helpful.

[Name removed]

190. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LDS Jock]

192. What the hell is your problem?

I ingorned the rest of your crap. Why do you keep coming back to this thread and adding more? If you have a question, feel free to ask it. If not, keep your insults to yourself.