Why do some people feel the need to be hateful here?

[freetobegay]

Is it because it makes you feel like a bigger person? I got news for you, it actually makes you look ignorant.

[sui generis]

1. what choo talkin bout willis?

If someone's being hateful let an administrator know about it.

[freetobegay]

4. It's a religion thing

The Administrators have alot more to worry about than people like this. If they only knew what they really looked like.

[indigobusiness]

10. It's about love

who has any use for hate?

[Mikimouse]

2. Did I miss something?

Was there a thread that I didn't see?

[johnnie]

3. I'm never hateful

Who is being hateful? I'll kill 'em....

[ogradda]

5. i try never, well hardly ever to be hateful

even when i'm really pissed i try and be polite.

[TrustingDog]

6. only target of hatred I see is bush and his cockroaches.

and that's a beautiful thing.

[sister moon]

7. It was me!

I expressed my opinion that there is not an invisible man in the sky keeping track of everything you do. Is that hateful? Sorry if you took it that way.

[freetobegay]

11. The only point I am makeing is there are alot of christians here

Jokes about God are not funny. I could spend all my time here bashing Atheists & making jokes about them but I don't. I believe if you want to believe fine, if you don't thats fine also. I cannot prove that there is a God & you cannot prove there is not a God. I just fail to see how making off the wall statemnets about it helps either side.

[qnr]

15. Ah, but there is the rub

We have to put up with "off the wall statements" every day of our life. How often in relation to pro-god statements do you see anti-god statements in real life? On a forum, if someone posts a pro-god statement, those that do not believe have an opportunity to respond. The opportunity does not present itself to those watching television, listening to the radio, or facing a myriad of other sources where it is pushed into our faces and we have absolutely no control. What, am I supposed to go into the local church and demand equal time?

I'm sorry you feel that we're being hateful, but the plain truth is, we are the ones that are having this foisted upon us against our will.

And anyway, stating that there is no God-lite is just silly on the face of it, there have been god-lites for thousands of years ... if someone wants to make a point like that, they should specify that there is "no God-lite in Christianity" or something. :shrug:

Edit: typo, and meant to add this, but got a phone call:

Look, it's fine if your God or Religion or whatever tells you that you are supposed to go out an convert the heathen. Fine, really. But don't you think that that is intruding on someone's personal space that that they should have the right to responds? We're not telling you to STFU or anything, just saying that you obviously aren't getting through to "us" so it's time to move on to the next potential convert. It's not "hateful" it's actually loving, in my opinion.

[freetobegay]

22. I and DU have "foisted this upon you?

[qnr]

27. Helps if you read the whole post

Sheesh, just ignore me, doesn't matter to me :shrug:

[indigobusiness]

25. You missed the point entirely, and it is hardly silly on its face...

Being unable to meaningfully discuss it doesn't mean that it isn't discussed, every day, by very serious and sincere people.

Sometimes heavy things can be discussed in a light way. Not here, apparently. Not tonight, anyway.

[qnr]

26. Sorry, still not getting through. There has been a whole

pantheon of gods, so there were god-lites, period. Saying there isn't doesn't make it so.

[indigobusiness]

40. God-lite is not god-lite

You haven't been paying attention. Are you trying?

[neebob]

54. What's a god-lite?

I wondered that when I saw the other thread.

[donheld]

94. Is god dieting again?

i hope thiat isn't hateful to ask.

[indigobusiness]

101. not god-lite, God-lite...sheesh

noun: Watered down God concept, so as to be easily digestible.

[sui generis]

19. it wasn't any more of an off the wall comment

to Sister Moon to say that than it is to say that than it is for a Christian to say that there is an "almighty being".

It's not persecution every time somebody states a differing belief.

I don't think anyone really believes that they can change anyone else's mind, but I think we should all believe that we are free to state our opinions.

Now you two kiss and make up.

[indigobusiness]

35. Christians haven't cornered the God market

and who was joking about "them"?

Perhaps there are other things you are failing to see as well?

[devilgrrl]

41. I think you should go here...

http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/mb/heidiho

see how you like it there.

[freetobegay]

48. Now why would I want to go there?

[devilgrrl]

85. You want to see hatefulness... give that place a try.

Since many here pluck your nerves for whatever reasons... if you think folks here have bad attitude towards religion, see what a real pious hater has to say about liberals/progressives, etc... and an "ex-Gay" current homophobe too boot!

[Pithlet]

88. I'm sure

There aren't too many of us pesky hateful non-believers there.

[qnr]

50. My eyes hurt, and I only read the welcome page....

talk about contrasting colors n/t

[Skittles]

92. oh lighten up

I get tired of people arguing over who has the better imaginary friend. Does that make me hateful? You have your opinion and I have mine. And hear a lot more about religion than you'll EVER hear from the "other side".

[indigobusiness]

37. Is that what they told you God was? That's Santa Claus, silly.

No wonder.

[jonnyblitz]

45. and me...

and i could give a fuck.

[ogradda]

8. fuck 'em. put 'em on ignore

unless it's something that so pisses you off you HAVE to respond then tell them what you think and have them kiss your ass.

[indigobusiness]

18. Ahhhh...

The Bush Doctrine.

[ogradda]

21. hey!

that smarts! i didn't say fuck 'em, put 'em on ignore then bend them over a barbed wire fence did i?

[qnr]

9. Well, considering the recent religion related thread,

I don't see anyone being really hateful. Someone stated their belief, some agreed, others disagreed.

I don't personally feel that I was being hateful, and while the responses to my post were (in my opinion) canned and monotonous, I didn't find them hateful, just boring. :shrug:

That's just me. I might be missing something.

[indigobusiness]

12. Ignorance is or isn't

...has nothing to do with "look".

[Roland99]

13. I have but one thing to say:

"Cheney"

[freetobegay]

14. Ditto.

[indigobusiness]

16. Have you ever considered being

freetobeopenminded?

Maybe you misperceive things, on occasion?

[freetobegay]

20. I am open minded thats why I don't start threads

About someone's belief or non belief. In kind would be nice also But we both know that will never happen.

[indigobusiness]

28. What's belief got to do with anything?

What is, is. That can be discussed, rationally.

[indigobusiness]

29. BTW I'm sensing a little hate radiating from you.

And a bit of judgementalism. Maybe you should take some of your own advice?

[Pithlet]

52. You mean, like you didn't do that starting this thread?

You seem to be offended by someone merely stating that they don't believe in God. You did that in this very thread. I do believe that half of the time these kinds of threads are just passive-aggressive ways to deal with non-believers. You can't come right out and confront us and tell us we're wrong, so we get these instead. I think it bothers you when people don't believe in your God.

[indigobusiness]

78. He's offended by the assertion that false Gods (ie God-lite ) don't exist.

Go figure...I don't get it.

[jdots]

17. It's been a long time coming

I admit I am hatefull and it feels like shit.The stakes are higher than i ever thought they could be.We vent here as a release and we deserve it,it is amoungst friends who are only strangers in random terms,I agree with you,it would look like hate to freepers,but if we want to have them as friends again,we have have to blow it out our asses at the people who have split this nation.It wasn't us and it wasn't the freepers.

[LibLover]

23. Oh yeah! Well I'm gonna kick your....

:hi:

I like those "Mean people suck" bumper stickers.

I just figure that at the end of each day they're stuck being them, and I'm not. I win!

[LoZoccolo]

24. Cuz you shouldn't be on a live show lipsyncing.

That's why.

At least have a dance routine if you're gonna do that.

[indigobusiness]

32. That's a brilliant response...

I'm stunned.

It's like a Zen Koan

WOW!

[Lefty48197]

30. I hate ignorant people

fuk heads.

[vinnievin777]

31. Lighten up

Nobody's hating it's just fun.I am sure she will be OK.

Vinnie Vin
http://www.vinnievin.com

[RPM]

33. why do you hate baby Jesus?

why you hatin'?

[UpsideDownFlag]

34. making fun of ashley simpson isn't hateful. nt

[vinnievin777]

36. Read my lips --I am not a hater

oh wait --ready-- I am not a hater.

Vinnie
http://www.vinnievin.com

[qnr]

38. Well, To Be Entirely Honest

for many years I hated cauliflower.

[indigobusiness]

44. We can overlook that

for now.

[sister moon]

39. According to some estimates I have read

there are approx. 25 million non-believers in the US alone. Many of us are tired of having religion shoved in our faces every day at work, school, in public places, on television and other media, etc. Most of us keep silent--in the closet, if you will--about our lack of belief. We know the attack is only a moment away and so we hold our tongues. But when I come to a place like this where I feel I can expect the vast majority of participants to be reasonable, open-minded, and tolerant I have a tendency to be a little freer in my speech. If anyone finds that offensive, you have my apology. Perhaps DU'ers are just like the general population, though I am sad at the thought.

[vinnievin777]

42. Ashley Simpson is a religion?

I didn't know that.

Vinnie Vin
http://www.vinnievin.com

[indigobusiness]

43. Right ...freedom to be free from religion is as vital as freedom to

religion yourself into a frenzy.

But God and religion are seperate things. People sometimes forget that.

And I think part of the problem in discussing it is the differences in terminology, and people get offended by lingo and concepts they aren't accustomed to.

on edit- don't be sad...we can work it out.

[freetobegay]

46. "But God and religion are seperate things. People sometimes forget that."

Has anyone on DU done that?

ON EDIT: and just in case your wondering where I stand on this issue, this is an older thread so it's not made up.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2524875#2524920

[sister moon]

47. Thanks

That's more helpful than someone throwing a hissy-fit and getting overly emotional and personal about it. Nobody has to agree with me. But I do expect everyone here who calls themselves a liberal to defend my right to express myself.
on edit: I do recognize the difference between religion--which I reject entirely--and the concept of a supreme intelligence or force or whatever it might be. But in order to BELIEVE in a thing I require some proof. To go around happily spouting off about god/jesus/the bible/heaven/hell etc. and creating whole industries around this fantasy seems "off the wall" to me. These wackos have hijacked our government. Hello! Isn't that one of the reasons we are all here trying to oust them from power? Please understand me: I defend your right to believe whatever strikes your fancy but keep it outta my face, outta my kid's faces, out of our schools and out of our government.

[indigobusiness]

49. That's the crux of the biscuit

Despite what Zappa said, it's not the apostrophe. It is respectful disagreement and honest discourse.

I'm getting a little misty here...I think I love you.

on edit - Sister Moon? I was hoping to make you laugh...don't call the cops...ok?

[sister moon]

69. LOL

No, I love you too!:hug:

[johnnie]

51. There are approx 250 million people in the US

Many of the 225 million believers are probably tired of hearing their beliefs get trashed too.
I stay out of the religion threads here most of the time, but I find it a bit strange that people start threads attacking people's spiritual beliefs. I don't think I have ever seen one thread on DU that said something like "Atheists are gullible" or " Non-believers will burn in hell". I have seen threads that attacked religion and spiritual beliefs, but not the opposite.

You said: "Perhaps DU'ers are just like the general population, though I am sad at the thought."
Yes, we are part of the population. There are a lot of people here, and not everyone is exactly the same.

For the record, I am not a Christian, but I respect anyone's belief or non-belief.

[indigobusiness]

53. Me too, and sometimes I forget that not everyone debates

seminal concepts, like Tibetan monks do. They have rigorous, logical debates about the fundamental nature of all that is. And there is none of the claptrap and dogma that is so distracting from getting at the heart of things.

I grew up Episcopalian, but learned to sort it out through Buddhism.

[qnr]

55. Well, isn't that interesting.

They are so secure in their belief of their god that they feel the need to try to get us to believe in him, yet they are so insecure in their belief of their god that they can't handle someone trashing their beliefs?

Sorry, what am I supposed to do, stay out of a pro-Bush thread because I don't believe as they do? Stay out of a pro-Iraq War thread because I don't believe as they do? Not going to happen, sorry.

Again, I am not being hateful. However, if you feel you (in the general sense, not you in particular) feel that I am trashing your beliefs, look to your big guy for solace, don't jump on me and call me hatefull. I'm simply stating my opinion, same as you.

[indigobusiness]

57. Respect is the key.

It cuts two ways.

[freetobegay]

58. Oy vey.

[indigobusiness]

59. Oh, I forgot to add

...and let the air out of the pompous. Jesus did that, didn't he?

[freetobegay]

60. Yea thats right go ahead & tell us about your respect.

[indigobusiness]

62. I disrespect your ego

and your anger/hatred.

That's about it.

[freetobegay]

65. Please stop looking in a mirror.

[indigobusiness]

71. You're young

and a tad shallow.

But I never set out to offend you, or anyone.

[freetobegay]

73. Well you certainly fooled me

And I am not as young as you think.

[indigobusiness]

75. You chose to see things in ways unintended.

And, yes you are.

[johnnie]

76. The ego

That's also not for us to judge. The ego is the "sin" in all of us anyway. It's up to each person to deal with their ego and try to figure out the real reason they are suffering. Remember...life is suffering. Isn't that the first Nobel truth? :)

[indigobusiness]

82. Ego is easily recognized, it doesn't require judgment.

Some are dead to their ego, some more than others. They suffer much less...and that's the truth, noblely.

[johnnie]

70. Are you are equating "Bush" and "The Iraq war" to spirituality?

Opinions are fine, but to attack someone's religion or beliefs (Be it in God or gods or no belief in a supreme being at all) is just not my bag.
George Bush and a war that is killing many people are a tangible substance that is a reality that can be seen and felt. A personal spirituality is something that exists in our minds and it is where and how we make our decisions and how we each choose to live our own personal lives. Even a person who believes in no supreme entity or gods believe in this with their heart and every ounce of their being. It is their religion and spirituality. I personally think that it is not cool to attack people for that belief... whatever it may be.

[qnr]

72. Of course I am not, I believe in the existence of Bush & The Iraq War

though I have no problem with "spirituality" in the broad sense.

[johnnie]

77. There ya go n/t

[JackDragna]

79. I think it's fine, perhaps even necessary.

You can say you respect everyone's spirituality, but I find it necessary to excoriate certain spiritual beliefs because they destroy the person who adopts them. I will always, for example, speak out against Unificationists, Scientologists, Identity Christians and all other religions who brainwash their followers and preach violence.

[johnnie]

80. I agree

It can get a little deeper than just a spiritual belief. Some belief systems go overboard and it harms others and takes advantage of some that can be pretty dangerous.
I am mainly responding to a thread of the general thought that people either believe in God or gods or none at all. Once it hits the point of extreme, then I start to wonder about it all.

[qnr]

81. My feeling is you can believe in God, Gods, or flea-bitten dogs,

but don't tell me I have to believe in it just because you do - at least, don't tell me it and expect me not to reply :shrug:

[johnnie]

83. I agree with you 100%

Do people here at DU tell anyone that they HAVE to believe? I've never seen that here, but I could be wrong. I think I was once..lol. :)

[qnr]

86. It's not so much "tell" as

"It doesn't matter whether you believe." or, "He exists whether you believe or not, because I say so." or, "You'll find out when you die." And countless variations on the same set of talking points.

You finally get tired of reasoning with them because it becomes monotonous, which makes them think they've won, so they redouble their efforts with the next person.

This is on most forums, it exists here on DU, but to a much lesser extent than I have seen on many "non-religious" ones.

[johnnie]

89. As I said up above somewhere...

I stay out of most of these threads so i don't know to what extent any pushing of faith that goes on.
I do work with some pretty heavy duty fundies and they try to tell me about the "truth". I honestly just listen and shake my head yes, and let it go. There has been a few times where this one guy at work went overboard and I know enough to shut him up. Only because he became a broken record and it got on my nerves..lol.

[qnr]

90. Yes, I try to, in many instances, if someone isn't

making a "Point"; rather than just discussing their beliefs.

freetobegay brought up a common misconception earlier, stating (paraphrased) "I can't prove there is a God, and you can't prove there isn't a God."

The thing is, I don't have to prove anything, since I'm not postulating anything. The burden of proof is on the positive. If someone wants to claim there is one, fine, but they are the ones that need to provide proof. I'm simply saying "I don't believe in what you are claiming" --- I have absolutely nothing to "prove" with that comment, it's a statement of fact.

[indigobusiness]

87. The problem seems to be an inability to discuss God aside from

belief. That seems to be what throws the monkey-wrench in the works.
And was the point of the evil thread that spawned this one.

It is a western thing. Go east of Suez, they get it.

[indigobusiness]

84. Surely...anything that obscures is occulting.

Clarity is what it's all about.

[pauliedangerously]

91. I just read this whole thread.....

I'm responding to you, because I agree with you. I have found that debating such things with "believers" is fruitless.

I grew up in the Bible Belt and was ostracized all the time for my lack of faith. After being accused of being closed-minded time after time, I finally read the Bible when I was twenty. I was flabbergasted after the first few chapters of Genesis; people really think this stuff happened? Curious, I read on. As I read, I thought to myself that people must surely realize that this is nothing but folklore.

I guess not.

Considering all of the hype I had heard about it, the Bible was the most disappointing book I have ever read. It didn't answer any of my questions; it only told riddles, lies, and half-truths. I understand that there is some historical significance to it, just like there is historical significance to The Iliad and The Odyssey, but these accounts are obviously not what really happened.

Why do people believe this stuff? I won't answer that on this discussion board because my answers would offend those who believe. I just chalk it up as yet another human foible and try not to let it depress me too much...it really makes me sad...sadder than I make them for not sharing their fantasy.

I've jumped in a few of these "debates" and it's just not worth it. Let them have their spiritual narcotic. I have my Stephen Jay Gould and my Daniel C. Dennett, and my Richard Dawkins. At least many of them can see through the lies of GWB. That's better than nothing.

[Pithlet]

93. Spreading the hate.

You hater, you. ;)

I'm just tired of these kinds of threads. They don't do anything but rile people up and separate them into groups.

[freetobegay]

98. This thread was in response to another thread

And yes I am tired of those kinds of thread.

[qnr]

99. Just realized that

I made many "was not meant to be hateful" and "apologies" in general, but never actually apologized to you directly. So, I hereby apologize if you thought I was being hateful, and can only state that that was not my point.

[indigobusiness]

95. The significance of religious mythology is not as you suggest...

Perhaps if you came at it through Joseph Campbell, you might realize the value of it. Don't be fooled by the misguided, and the misrepresented. You might be surprised to find the significance actually lines up remarkably well with Gould, etal.

[Seabiscuit]

56. Clinton made us do it!

:)

[Droopy]

61. Dammit. I'm going to give you all a spanking.

No arguments in the lounge! :spank:

[indigobusiness]

64. Well it's about time.

I was trying to be nice.

[sister moon]

63. Time to go to bed now

after I rolled this grenade into the latrine. Wish I could stay and see how it all turns out but I'm having a hard time keeping my eyes open. Sweet dreams to all! (that includes you, too, freetobegay)

[indigobusiness]

66. It wasn't you...you helped

thanks for being so sincere.

[freetobegay]

67. I hope you have sweet dreams also.

:)

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

68. Crying. I don't understand!

But then obviously I've missed a thread.

Who is Ashley Simpson?

I HATE hatefulness! I do! I am INTOLERANT of intolerance!

I am bigoted toward bigotry!

[indigobusiness]

74. Another crux

for the biscuit.

[The Flaming Red Head]

96. Put some holy water in the bong and find GOD the old fashioned hippie way

Why can't we all just get along?

[indigobusiness]

102. I'll be right over...

and I thought my hippie days were done.

[Jon8503]

97. What Happened?

[mvd]

100. Well for one, I'm keeping the positivity going

I'm not going to get on Ashlee too much. Pop culture has some problems, but IMO, it's better than many DUers would admit. And I stand by that. :hi: