I have an idea for all the men who post "hot women" posts and polls.

[SarahB]

How about when you do or respond in detail critiquing a woman's physical features, put your own picture up, so we can judge your appearance. Fair is fair right.

If that happens, I think there would be less problems.

[Misunderestimator]

1. Great idea! It should be a prerequisite.

[qnr]

2. OK, but do you want my

Denzel Washington picture? My George Clooney picture? Maybe my Dustin Hoffman one?

[belladonna]

3. Uh-oh, and me with my casting couch

Am I in trouble too? :scared:

[freetobegay]

4. Why don't some of you females post

Pics of men? I wouldn't mind.

[ronnykmarshall]

16. That's our job, baby!

[blondeatlast]

27. Between the gay men and the straight women of DU, I think together we make

up an overwhelming majority!

[JohnKleeb]

28. if you guys do it I wouldn't mind honestly

Now speedos, I may go bizzerk, but thats a whole other thread :). Hey it was the gay men of DU vote in my cute contest vs youngred last november is why he beat me.

[JI7]

70. speedos on guys is not very attractive

in my opinion. but i know many other girls who agree with me on this.

[molly]

41. I haven't judged a male by his looks since I was like 12

men that judge women by her looks are lower on the food chain.

[GingerSnaps]

5. That's a great idea

Thanks :kick:

[da_chimperor]

6. It's not a fair comparison

A woman is the personification of all that is beautiful in the world. A man is . . . well, less appealing to look at.

[Spinzonner]

7. Suckup

[da_chimperor]

11. Am not! I just prefer looking at women

:P

[Spinzonner]

14. Are Too !

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[da_chimperor]

20. Are not!

I know there's nothing wrong with it, but I'm still not a suck-up :D

[Skittles]

8. says you

I would rather look at a stud muffin than the skanky ho's the DU men find attractive.

[Misunderestimator]

9. Lovely... just such a descriptive word, skanky.

:eyes:

[GingerSnaps]

10. Thank you

:loveya:

[da_chimperor]

12. Well, I meant that from a hetero male perspective

and I think skanky women are also deserving of appreciation as well. :D

[JohnKleeb]

23. damn straight

Women :)
Men :puke:
simple as that.

[smirkymonkey]

56. Not if you are a woman, or a gay man.

That's the issue here, really. A lot of straight men believe that their personal tastes, likes and dislikes are universal. They're not.

[da_chimperor]

60. I'm aware of that

See post 12 :)

[Nikia]

13. The women in the other poll aren't models or strippers

They are daughters of politicians who are supporting our canidate, our ideals. Since they have money and have parents who are used to being in the public eye, they probably take a little more care with their appearance than the average woman, especially since they know women are judged more harshly then men. The purpose of their appearance wasn't to be sexual entertainment for men. I find it disturbing that they are being judged by their bodies. I think that the negative comments are disturbing too, especially the one about them being average or below average. Yes, put your picture up so we can say you are below average or homely or if you are very attractive, we'll say that we want to have sex with you.

[SarahB]

46. BINGO!!!

I'm lovin' your posts today!!! :thumbsup:

[snoochie]

15. Women give men too much power.

Really, who cares what men like that think? We're as beautiful as we feel we are.

Real, lasting beauty comes from within. The kind that's too often slobbered over by less-than-enlightened people takes thousands of dollars and surgery to maintain.

Let them have their fantasies. We're better off focusing our energies on the men that are worthy of them, IMO.

O8)

[Misunderestimator]

18. We give them power by not objecting to their objectifying us.

[snoochie]

19. Yes, you're right

And maybe by reading the THOUGHTS of women, some of the guys on those threads might get a clue, even.

I was thinking more of women who might be upset by such goings on. It used to bother me quite a bit. I had a massive inferiority complex. It bothers me to think of any young woman feeling that way about herself because of crap like that.

[Misunderestimator]

21. Then we agree. And you're right too, that some women do hand

over their power to men in that way, and that they should ignore men like that. It's a hard thing to do though if men who are otherwise quite good people are completely oblivious to their own sexism. Lots of men here are really excellent, and understand it thoroughly. However, there are a few who just keep jabbing at that wound over, and over, and over, despite all the intelligent objections from women here. :shrug:

[snoochie]

22. Maybe if they have a daughter someday, then they'll 'get it'?

:shrug:

[Placebo]

17. I have a better idea: DON'T DO IT, YOU MIGHT GET BANNED, I DID!

I made the mistake of making one of those "who is sexier..." threads, and got banned.

Be warned my friends!

[JohnKleeb]

24. If you got banned, why are you here

Damn LD and wannabe dyslexia.

[Placebo]

34. I begged and begged and begged and begged...

and they gave me one more shot.

[JohnKleeb]

63. begging works I see

[Bombtrack]

25. People should be able to post hot chick threads as long as others post cat

threads. The vast majority of famous hot chicks who get photographed agree to it beforehand. The same cannot be said for these stupid cats.

[Misunderestimator]

26. You sure do love to cling to your sexism.

Never ceases to amaze me that the same people continue to defend something that the MAJORITY of women here are objecting to.

If I said something, and a whole group of people here explained to me why it was offensive to them, even if I couldn't understand why, I would stop the behavior. I guess that's just too much to ask of some people.

[Bombtrack]

38. Why do you make baseless attacks against me?

I'm not a sexist. I know of no evidence to support your claim that most women agree with you. I'm not starting any of those threads. I in fact was voicing a disagreement with someone who did start one of those threads on the premise of the thread.

What do we live in a magical world where every person is hot? No.

[Misunderestimator]

39. Whatever, man... I've read your posts, and you're quite consistent.

[smirkymonkey]

58. The whole point is that it creates a "locker room" type of

environment here at DU. Just like putting those pictures up at work would create a hostile work environment.

If men like to look at these things, fine. There are plenty of websites and forums for just that type of thing. I like to look at hot men, but I don't feel the need to post their pictures here. Why? Because I am acutely aware of how this type of objectification affects the feelings of other.

Unfortunately, here at DU there are still a lot of men who don't understand this. I will go out on a limb here and say that many of these men, consciously or unconsciously, post these things because on some level they wish to intimidate or insult women.

Not all men at DU or in the outside world are like this. But some are and I will bet if they are honest with themselves they will realize that there is often an ulterior motive in these posts other that the appreciation of the female form.

[Bombtrack]

68. i wasn't posting pictures

i got called a sexist because I said that the choices in a poll thread that was titled (hot babes) weren't hot babes. And they weren't.

[smirkymonkey]

72. I wasn't referring to you specifically, just the sentiment that

gets put forth in those types of posts.

[sendero]

71. Using your logic...

... if a majority of Americans don't think black people should be allowed to vote, then black people wouldn't be allowed to vote.

Democracy is not "majority rules" it's a little more complicated than that.

[jukes]

29. boring

trying too fucking hard!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

30. They can just use this pic as default

Troglodyte is an aggressive Philistine who categorically disdains all new-age enthusiasms and politics, and has a particular animus against "homos", "tree huggers", " hairy-leg lesbo feminists" and artsy types. His loud brandishings of "common sense" and "reason" are nothing more than conceits to justify his close mindedness. Troglodyte's fierce, but predictable attacks are easily parried by more nimble Warriors. Sometimes, just for fun, Weenie or Issues will taunt him into a towering rage.

[SarahB]

48. Good one!

Plus, you know I'm not uptight about men who "love the ladies" so to speak, but it's context and the character of who's behind it. Men who truly do "love the ladies" can appreciate our physical loveliness as woman, but know we are more and understand the implications of too much judgment in this regard at times.

[MrScorpio]

31. I have no problems with that

I'll post my pics, any place, any time

And still put threads out there about how much I appreciate attractive women

[Misunderestimator]

33. I think you know the difference between appreciating attractive women

and posting sexist polls titled "Hot Dem Babes" that objectify women, especially the women that were in today's. At least I THINK you know the difference.

[MrScorpio]

35. Skanky Hoes do, however have their place

But making them an example of what women should aspire to is not one of them.

I find class, grace, intellingence, fitness and the willing to be intouch with one's own innate sensuality highly attractive.

Now, THAT'S sexy

[snoochie]

36. Skanky hoes?

Yes, women that enjoy sex are bad, bad, bad, and should be ridiculed and shown how they are nothing more than garbage.

:puke:

[MrScorpio]

42. You miss my point

I think that this is an American phenonenon.

In this country, I usually see women express their sexuality by their willingness to emulate strippers and porn stars.

Christina Aguilara is a prime example of this. Ripped fishnets, garish makeup, bleached blonde hair, breast implants and the like. That's the porn star persona. Which, BTW, is fine for porn stars and strippers. It's merely a step up from prostitutes.

I really don't equate this persona with sexuality, moreso, I equate it with money. Hence, the skanky ho sobriquet.

On my travels around the world, most women don't use this persona to express their sexuality.

They take a much more classy and natural approach. Which, I find really sexy.

I'm not turned on by prostitutes.

[snoochie]

44. And obviously, what YOU find to be of value is all that matters

right?

:eyes:

If I want to dress like a skank that means NOTHING about who I am on the inside.

Go ahead, keep judging books by their covers. It's all the rage... has been for millennia.

[leftofthedial]

32. If someone posts a song critique

should they also have to post links to their own albums too?

I don't get it.

[snoochie]

37. Unbelievable.

Simply unbelievable.

:crazy:

[Misunderestimator]

40. And you'll find that no matter how you explain it...

there are a few die-hard sexists here who just can't get it through their thick knuckleheads. *sigh*

On edit... Thank you, thank you to all you men who DO get it. :yourock:

[leftofthedial]

49. I get the notion of not being sexist

I don't get the logic of posting one's own picture in order to "qualify" to post a picture of someone else. It's still objectifying.

Get it?

Love,
the Knucklehead

[Misunderestimator]

54. It was related to a suggestion I made to someone on another thread

who called Chelsea Clinton homely. I suggested that he put up his picture so we could judge him... Make sense now? :)

[leftofthedial]

57. man, anyone who thinks Chelsea is homely

has problems I can't fathom. Chelsea has brains, class, poise and beauty! She's amazing. All the daughters and wives of the Kerry and Edwards families are the real deal and wonderful assets to the campaign. Personally, Elizabeth Edwards just knocks me out. That is one happening lady.

[Droopy]

43. I take it you feel the same way about women and gay men

who post the same types of threads? I've seen it done many times. But you know what? It doesn't bother me in the slightest.

[SarahB]

45. To a lesser degree...

A man's physical appearance is subject to less judgment than a woman's physical appearance.

Men still run most corporations. Men are still dominating both the House and the Senate. There has never been a female President in the US. When the day comes that we really do hold positions of power equal to that of men in our society, maybe this will less of a "sore spot" for some of us.

I'm far from being "uptight" or anti-man (in fact, I'm quite the opposite), I just get exhausted here at times with this.

[Bunny]

47. And when we finally do get a woman President, there is a

certain sector that will only be concerned about whether or not she has big tits. :eyes:

[SarahB]

51. Oh, and if I really want to get into THAT one...

I've seen threads before insinuating that those of us who are more endowed are shallow, vacuous morons who are fake. There was one a few months back about this baseball player's wife who had a body similar to mine and that's what happened. You just can't freakin' win as a woman it seems. Damned if you fit into the mold, damned if you don't.

[Droopy]

53. I agree that there is some sexism on this board (and obviously

there is inequality in society) and I do my best to set things straight when I see it. I don't start "who's hot" threads because I think they are shallow and juvenile, but other than that I don't have a problem with them and fail to see how they are sexist unless people are using sexist language.

[Misunderestimator]

55. "Hot Dem Babes" To me that's sexist language.

[iconoclastic cat]

50. Okay, I give in. Here I am, baby!

[camero]

52. That's why I don't post those pictures

So I don't have to put my ugly mug up. :) Once is enough.

[buddhamama]

59. hmmm

a bit hypocritical, i think.

we've all responded to the 'hot' threads; what celebrity would you like to boink, who's the sexiest poltician,etc.,etc.

DU men and women have critiqued the appearance of repubs.

the Hilton sisters threads were down right nasty! their 'looks' were trashed by women as well as men, they were called names that would make most feminists cringe.

honestly, i don't remember any requirements or conditions placed on the respondent for those threads.

[Misunderestimator]

61. No we have not ALL responded the way you describe.

Many of us continue to try to enlighten the few of our fellow DUers who constantly objectify women and don't realize it. Some do realize and keep doing it... must be the ones who did all that nastiness you're describing in the Hilton thread (which I didn't see, or you can believe I'd have commented... but not the kind of comment you're talking about).

This thread is related to someone calling Chelsea Clinton homely... I for one would like to see a picture of the person calling her homely. She's a beautiful woman, and even if she weren't, describing her as homely is insulting.

[buddhamama]

62. well yes the ALL was a generalization

but it applies to most of the responders of this thread, including the thread author.

'homely' is insulting but it is one person's opinion. like i said before, the same or worse has been said of repubs,etc.

men too have been objectified on the boards.

[Misunderestimator]

65. Men being objectified.... I hear that lame argument so many times

it makes me want to puke.

[buddhamama]

67. how is it lame?

[SarahB]

64. I have posted on SOME of those threads.

I don't believe I ever called the Hilton sisters names and I have even stood up for *gasp* Republican women whose appearance wasn't relevant and unfairly critiqued. I really agreed with what Nikia said above in regards to whom is critiqued. It just gets so overblown and blatant at times here. Sometimes the objectification goes to far and until women are in further positions of power and do not have to worry about courts legislating our bodies, maybe at times, we can be entitled to be a bit more touchy about this stuff. Maybe I've just had a crappy day. That's another strong possibility as well. :D

[buddhamama]

66. you're entitled to rant

i wasn't attacking you and i hope you don't feel that way.
i remember the Hilton sisters' threads vividly. i don't remember
you calling them names either and i wasn't implying you did, if it seemed that way i'm sorry. what i do remember however was that a lot of cruel things were said and not just about them. the discussion morphed into an ugly discussion/critique of thin women. sadly, most of the really ugly comments came from other women.
sadly, a lot is assumed about people based solely on their appearance
what you're post asks though is for someone to qualify their opinion;

only if you're good looking can you say another is homely or, we'll decide if you are good looking enough to make such a statement.

imo, the person said Chelsea was homely has already shown something of themselves in that statement. why bother with outer self when you know the inner ain't too pretty.

and really, that's what we're objecting to, isn't it?

seeing and appreciating only the physical form and ignoring the rest.

[SarahB]

69. I didn't think you were and I totally understand your point.

I was discussing with someone awhile back on this whole topic and he was saying that it seems like on DU at times, people can't say "I think voluptuous women are beautiful" or "I think slender women are beautiful" without putting down those who are different from what may be their primary preference. There are so many forms of beauty and we all probably have certain preferences for those of who are attracted to men or women (I have my "guy type" too), even cultural differences, but it's just not the core of who any of us are.

I can my original post was more about one specific response that was especially cruel about a young woman's appearance. It bugged me and just completely seemed to put aside her humanity in the way it was said.