So... Italy is looking more and more promising. I'm so dejected and

[radwriter0555]

defeated by all that I've spent the past 10 years working on.... that it's come to this. I really may well be one of those Americans that leave.

The house is worth double what I owe, I can pocket a cool quarter million.

My kid has to change schools this year, and none that we're applying to seem very promising.

A job? Well there is nothing in LA I really want to do. I don't want to work for someone, I'd like my own little business. It'd cost a fortune to start up something here, and chances of success are minimal at best.

Got no family but my daughter. She loves Italy, as do I. (ALL of europe is wonderful!)

We could leave in June, and travel around Italy and the south of France for the summer and see where the wind blows us and where we end up.

I could stash a pile of cash in case I DO want to come back.

My constitution is in tatters, my heart is broken, so what is tying me to the USA?

I can't think of anything. We can't beat this regime. It can't be done, so why bother staying....

Are there any drawbacks to living somewhere else? Any reason not to go?

[Gloria]

1. Healthcare if your insurance doesn't cover overseas??

www.interntionalliving.com

[Nevernose]

2. Can I come with you?

I've got no family but my daughter, either, and though neither of us has ever been to Italy (or Europe, for that matter), I'm sure she can LEARN to love it.

You'd be kind of like Henry James. Or Carrie Fisher.

[GOPisEvil]

3. If I had the financial wherewithal, I'd go...

...as it is, I can get a Greek passport and settle anywhere in the EU if push comes to shove.

[HappinessPie]

4. My husband and I are moving to Spain - it is supposed to be temporary ...

It's a three-year transfer assignment. I plan to continue to do what I can from there to help the situation here (donate, email/letter campaigns, etc) but if things go to hell in a handbasket here anyway, I may be looking for a way that we can stay. Occasionally after you transfer they will offer you a permanent position (which is a really big pay cut, but my husband and I are trying to simplify our lives so we can live on less)...so I am hoping that is a contingency plan.

I don't blame you for feeling dejected, because I am too. I don't want to give up the fight but I have to say that the only reason I'm not totally depressed is that I am already leaving.

Advice: don't stash US dollars. Convert them to Euros or gold - I predict the dollar is going to *tank* when other countries start divesting from the US and investing in the EU. There is already some evidence that is happening.

[Dzimbowicz]

17. Good advice about the money

The Swiss Franc is also another attractive option.

[Red_Viking]

5. I'm considering Germany

At 38, I decided for a career change and went back to law school. My boyfriend was laid off from HP in 2002 and I hated my job at Dell, so we decided to both go back to school. We moved ourselves and my 13-year-old to Oregon and we're close to the end of our first semester of school. Loving it, too. So, I have 2 1/2 years left. But, we're discussing the very real possibility of living abroad when we finish school. Germany is our first choice. We're changing our specialties to International Law and hoping to get certified in EU law. Our school has a reciprocal agreement with a law school in Hamburg. We can attend a summer session for sure and later, possibly an entire semester in Hamburg. Plus, after our 2nd year we can try to get a clerking gig overseas.

We're not kidding about this. I'm devastated by what's become of my country. I feel like it's turned its back on me and I don't belong here any more. I'm not going to be crushed under the bootheel of the Christian Taliban. I'm not going to see my daughter's rights eroded or see her drafted and taken away from me in a few years. He's not my president, and I don't want to share this country with the people in charge.

We're trying to provide ourselves with some options. Sounds like you're doing the same. I think your daughter would benefit tremendously from living overseas. What a wonderful experience. New cultures, new languages...this could affect how she lives the rest of her life.

I think Europe is a wonderful choice. Go, have a wonderful adventure, but do plan to come back.

Good luck to all of us!

RV

[Dzimbowicz]

16. I once lived in Germany

and I loved it, except for the months of October to December when it is very dark (the sun sets early and rises late). However, in the spring it was wonderful ( the sun rose about 4:30am and set around 10:00pm). Most of the people are friendly and open-minded. I especially enjoyed going to cafes and striking up conversations with people I did not know. I was amazed how willing the people were in such places to accept strangers; and this was in the former GDR (Halle, to be exact) just after the reunification.

I do not know how easily one can immigrate to Germany (I had a residence visa because of the university for which I was working), but I have been told the Germans are rather restrictive when it comes to granting citizenship. Is that your ultimate goal or a residence visa until there are more positive changes in the US?

I am considering Austria because I have a very good friend who works there and because of the country's political neutrality. According to him, the most difficult obstacle would be obtaining an EU work permit, which one would need prior to applying for naturalization. He told me that the 'foreigner' needs to find employment and then the employer must prove to the authorities that an EU citizen is not available to fill that position before a work permit is granted.

I did discover that housing is a bit more expensive in Europe than the US, but affordable if one has a good job. I do not know if this is still the case, but residents in the western part of Germany must pay an additional tax to help modernize the east; this, however, may be over.

Consider yourself lucky that you currently reside in a blue state. I was born and raised in a red state (SC) and the atmosphere here has always been difficult for progressive people, even more so since the last election. I have always looked to places such as Oregon and Washington to set the examples we, as a nation, should follow. I do agree with you that our country is headed in a dangerous direction. Should I stay or remain and fight? As of today, I do not have an answer to that question.

Peace, and I hope everything works out the best for you and your family.

[Atlas Mugged]

18. You left Halle???

I love that area!!! Especially Quedlingburg, which is where I stay whenever I'm there. I go to the Harz region at least once a year and it's at the top of my list for places to move to permanently. As it is, I have a small apartment in Berlin that I use as a closet, then I rent a car and hit the roads. But I always have to spend at least a week in the Harz. And I always, without fail, pay my respects to der Brocken (and the Rostroppe). This all started with my first trip to Sangerhausen to see the rose garden, shortly after the wall came down, and it's been a solid love affair ever since.

One of the 'signature moments' of my life was in the garden of some friends outside of Halle for 'coffee' (which went on for hours, as is the custom). I was surrounded by roses, opium poppies and larkspurs in full bloom. A perfect day. Another moment was having wine in the cellar restaurant of the Theophano hotel, located directly on the ancient town square of Quedlingburg. Truly perfect moments. It's going to take a couple of years, but that's where I'm going to move permanently. As difficult as it is to comprehend for others, I felt more at home there than any other place I've ever been. I had the same feeling in Prague, but the Harz reigion fits my lifestyle better now.

[Dzimbowicz]

20. I had to, my visa expired

and I had to finish my doctorate here at my university; and I wanted what I had been working so hard for. I agree Halle is a wonderful place, except for the dark and gloomy autumn; I guess I'm just a sun person. But, like I said in my previous post, I was over-exhilerated in the springtime.

One thing I especially loved about Halle, and Germany in general, is their bicycle-friendly policy. Cyclists are accepted as part of the normal traffic, not pushed off the road by aggressive drivers as is the case here.

My favorite place to hang out and meet new people in Halle was the Kaffeeschuppen (I think it was on Ulrichstrasse). Many students from MLU and others congregated there and mixed together well. There was a stage with a piano for anyone who wished to play. Musicians would, on many occasions, come and play on that stage, or outside in the small courtyard. I just loved that atmosphere. On Sundays, a friend and I, would walk the Dölauer Heide discussing history and language (forgive us, I was a doctoral candidate in history and he was a professor of Celtic languages).

The opposing sides of Halle and Neustadt were also fascinating to me. Although many of my friends thought of Neustadt as ugly, I saw it as part of the historical experience of the region.

I was 'adopted' by a family from Dessau and they took me to many interesting places such as Wittenberg and Wörlitz. I simply fell in love with the entire region. I do intend to return, but as of now, I cannot for financial reasons.

Did you ever go to Wernigerode? Do you like Hasseröder beer?

[Atlas Mugged]

24. Oh, yes....

...I spend plenty of time in Wernigerode evertime I'm there. The first time I rented a place in the area (for 2 weeks) it was a lovely house in Darlingerode (I was amazed by what a bargain this place was - it even had a pool!) so we did most of our shopping in Wernigerode. As you are obviously aware, the town hall there is a national treasure. The whole string of villages in this area are pure magic and it is fun to learn the different distinct architectural trademarks of the houses. Goslar's black slate is amazing, and I love that ancient Templar cathedral done in the Romanesque style. I'm sort of obsessed with Quedlingburg because of the castle on the hill, with the ancient hunting lodge's restaurant a favorite place to eat. Amazing view! And I am totally swept away by the history of this village.

Yes, I remember Hasseroder beer! I'm not much of a drinker, but my SO is, and he lit up at the mention of it. When I do drink the beer there, I go for the Dunkel varieties - I love the dark beers.

As for the dark Winter months - the Mediterranean is exactly where I want it - within spitting distance. But Spring is the time of magic (I'm a horticulturist and specialize in Alpine plants), and I plan to be on der Brocken for the next Walpurgisnacht.

[radwriter0555]

23. Well it's nice to hear I'm not nuts. It doesn't seem to be a bad thing to

take wing and fly away... a bit nerve racking though.

The idea of parting with pretty much EVERYTHING and starting all over is kind of wild. I know I can take a lot with me, but it makes more sense to leave it all behind. I'm not a pack rat, luckily. I've moved enough in the past few years to have knocked off the accumulation of useless things.

It would be a total change in lifestyle. Television is almost non-existent. My kid and I would have to INTERACT or something!

Perhaps I would finally be forced to be creative all the times, as I only do now in fits and spurts.

I would miss my fish Angela... isn't that crazy? She is this remarkable butterfly koi that I've raised for 2 years now. She's not large yet, only about 4 inches in body length, but is pure white. Her body is perfectly shaped, and her fins are twice the length of her body, she is just exquisite, like a rare porcelain. I suppose I could put her in a bag and bring her with on the plane, right? :O

My dogs... well Winky would come with, she's the littlest. Joey wants to stay with his friend Jack (and Jack's mom, my pal). Blue is getting so old, she may stay with our tenant who is moving to a house this spring.

I don't seem to have much in the way of tethers....

[SmokingJacket]

6. Leave the revolution to the young.

Honestly, once you have kids, you have to do what's best for them. I'd like to give my kids a couple of coloring books and some lollipops and say, Be quiet while Mommy revolts against the fascists! But I can't see it.

Italy has Berlusconi, so while it's a nice place to visit, you might not want to stay. (Okay, GREAT place to visit.)

I ain't never been to France.

Ireland totally rocks, if you like the quiet life.

England is expensive and fraught.

Dunno. I have sensitive grannies and a liberal town, so I'm staying until the draft or the tanks roll through down my street... but if nothing's holding you back, why NOT travel? There are certainly worse times to do it.

Kids benefit from learning a second language, ya know.

[StClone]

10. Iceland

New Zealand, anywhere else? Any African or South American countries that are attractive -- Costa Rica?

[salvorhardin]

7. Not to burst your Italian bubble or anything

but isn't Silvio Belusconi as repugnant as W, only without the large military?

[Nevernose]

9. They'll have a new one next week though

Doesn't Italy get a new PM every 9 months on average or something like that? How long has he been there already?

[salvorhardin]

12. Berlusconi

has been PM of Italy since 2001. Before that he was PM for a short time in 1994 (not sure for exactly how long). In July of 2003, Italy assumed the rotating presidency of the EU, thus Berlusconi become head of the EU.

[WindRavenX]

11. Italy is pretty much run by the Pope

It's LOVELY place, but not in line with our politics...

[Kellanved]

14. at least as much

With his total media control, implicit mafia connections, Holocaust denying lapses, insufferable style, fundamental Catholic beliefs and his majestic way of changing any laws posing a danger to him.

He is at least as bad as Bush, maybe worse; the only upside being that he is checked by the EU and wields far less power.

[Mira]

8. So... Italy is looking more and more promising. I'm so dejected and

If you can afford the move, just do do it.
Italy is wonderful, they will take you in happily, I don't know about Healthcare there, but I pay close to 400 p/mo here for little ole me and that's for a 2500 deductible and no doctor visits.
Meaning, there is no there there when I need them.
I am a European who came here in 1964 as a teen,
becama a citizen to vote for McGovern, and for the first time ever am thinking of going home.

My family and friends are calling for me, they think what is happening here is the beginning of something they have lived through....

[vajraroshana]

13. Italy looks great

Especiallly Southern Italy. And I love Italian, though I only know how to say a few "great" menu items!

It's a beautiful language though.

Even if I don't go there, I'd like to learn Italian.

[sbj405]

15. Euro is at an all time high, who knows how much higher it will go

Your money go nearly as far as a few years ago.

[mrbill]

19. my first thought upon learning the results.........

....was sell the family farm and move to the south of France.

Italy might be a better idea. Jamica?

[radwriter0555]

21. South of france is equally entertaining, but a lot more expensive. Farms i

in Umbria can be very inexpensive if you're handy and like restoring things -- a LOT. I've been shopping some places that run from $25,000 for a town apartment in a small (dying they say) hamlet to $60K for a farm house, little bit of land.

They say the small towns are dying, and I've seen that. The young people go to the big city, leaving the towns to the elders.

This site is wildly comprehensive... http://www.brianfrench.co.uk/search.php?min=0&max=10000000®ions%5B%5D=9

and gives me great hope.

[mrbill]

22. $60K is cheaper than anything decent in my little county in texas

do they have golf courses in the south of France?

the food is tasty.