Bleh....first time I ever tossed a fantasy book in the trash.

[Liberal Veteran]

Faith Of the Fallen by Terry Goodkind

A monument to a series that becomes so bogged down in propaganda and one sided thinking that I just became disgusted with it.

It was like reading a fantasy novel cobbled together by right wing radio.

I wouldn't have minded a polemic about the evils of communism if it showed the slightest bit of effort to even approach a semblance of realism.

This one did not. I expect cliches and exaggeration in fantasy novels as a matter of course, but this went into the real of just bizarre caricature that was about as subtle and complex as a anvil being dropped on your head.

Bleh....

Someone recommend me a new series to read already.....

[Rabrrrrrr]

1. It's old, but the Belgeriad and Mallorean by David Eddings

I love that series. Came out years and years ago (in the 80s) and I've read the whole - what is it, 13 books? - a couple times.

Love 'em!

[Liberal Veteran]

2. Been there....done that. Thanks though...

Much more enjoyable than the one I described.

[purji]

30. I like Eddings too

You might try Raymond E.Feist.
I also love Anne McCaffery.

[Reciprocity]

44. I love most of Eddings book.

That said Polgara the Sorceress was the absolute worst book. I left it half read.

[IdaBriggs]

3. Are you familiar with "Game of Thrones" etc by George RR Marting? ng

[Ruffhowse]

4. Try George R. R. Martin's Fire and Ice series.

[TroubleMan]

32. Great series...I can't wait for the next book

nt.

[EstimatedProphet]

5. Metropolitan by Walter Jon Williams

Magepunk. Very cool.

[realisticphish]

6. i love that series

but i agree that it was very once-sided in that book. i prefered the much more interesting earlier books. wizards first rule is still one of my favorite fantasies of all time

:hippie: The Incorrigible Democrat

[Rabrrrrrr]

7. And for some of the most intelligent, and relevant, fantasy

go with The Coldfire trilogy: Black Sun Rising, When True Night Falls, and Crown of Shadows (author: C.S. Friedman)

http://www.flowerstorm.net/disa/Gallery/anti-tarrant.html

This is incredible fantasy that really is science fiction in a lot of ways, because, while it has magic and stuff, it's a very intense look at the role of religion in a society.

It's also amazing literature because the hero has flaws, and the villain has a lot of good qualities. So it's all ambiguous, and the hero and the villain end up working together to defeat a greater evil. There is no black and white good/evil dichotomy. it's all ambiguous, like real life, and that's why it works so well as excellent literature.

The writing style is quite good, though not quite of an excellent literate style. But the quality of the story-line is of a level far beyond almost all fanstasy literature I have ever read.

I highly - very, very highly - recommend these books.

[ZenLefty]

8. Terry Goodkind sucks dead goats nether regions.

There. I said it. I feel better already.

Have you read Guy Gavriel Kay? I really recommend anything he's written, except for Last Light of the Sun, which also sucks said nether regions of dead goats.

Tigana is a great novel, as is A Song for Arbonne. Sailing to Sarantium is my favorite of his works.

[Nevernose]

13. IMO, that's complimentary to Terry Goodkind

Worst. Author. Ever.

[ZenLefty]

15. I tried to read 'Wizard's First Rule'

It reminded me of the old Rules Lawyers of AD&D in the 1980's. Just couldn't stomach it after page 50. :thumbsdown:

[Nevernose]

17. What's the modifier to initiative for a short sword again?

I forget.

Oh, sorry, that was second edition rules, not first edition.

[Liberal Veteran]

18. liberal_veteran casts Cone of Silence on Terry Goodkind.

Ah, it worked...I feel much better now.

[Nevernose]

19. Don't you know people are trying to DRINK around here?

I just spit beer on my monitor!

[Liberal Veteran]

20. LOL...sorry. TG just managed to piss me off. There is nothing I hate more

...than calmly enjoying a moment of escapism by reading a book and finding myself in the middle of a badly written and overly preachy diatribe.

A pox on TG.

[Nevernose]

23. Wizard's First Rule wasn't THAT bad

It was the sequels that REALLY sucked. All I remember was the bondage scenes going on for ten or twenty pages. TG must really suck if he can make kinky sex boring.

[CrownPrinceBandar]

34. I'm reading "WFR" right now and I love it!!...........................

I think it parallels whats going on in our country right now. Evil exists and is generally doing bad things, but doesn't feel that what they are doing is wrong. In their minds, they see themselves doing righteous deeds and strongly justify. Sounds familiar. However, I will heed LV's warning and steer clear of the sequels. I gotta read Brian Herbert's "Butlerian Jihad" next.

[jobycom]

36. That's exactly it!

The first books have a universal appeal. You can chose which evil empire to compare it to. His preachy books, especially Naked Empire, completely undo everything he's done before, and the preaching leaves no room to apply the story universally. Richard becomes the evil Lord Rahl in the last book, but Goodkind thinks he is good.

I won't waste more time on the series, he's done. Now I can focus on Harry Potter.

[Liberal Veteran]

43. I was okay until books 5 and 6.....total crapola

There were hints, but about halfway through book 6 I realized that I wasn't reading a fantasy novel, but a poorly written polemic.

[dorktv]

9. Pratchett! Pratchett! PRATCHETT!

If you go with a Terry, he's the one.

[Carson]

29. Ah, Discworld. Pratchett never fails to make me laugh out loud. n/t

[purji]

31. I just finished Going postal

I love a book that makes me laugh out loud. I need a little laughter right now.

[jobycom]

10. Man, that one gets even worse after Faith

The last book, Naked Empire, has Richard charge into a crowd of peace activists, hacking them apart for interfering with his "moral clarity." From a story point of view, he completely undoes everything he created in the first novels, and flushes it. His characters are undifferentiated, his story flat and unimaginative, and his villains are retreads of previous bad guys. He tanks on message and story, in other words.

I knew from the thread title you were talking about him.

Goodkind has always been a horrible writer, but he created great worlds and characters, and seemed to have a genuine love for his characters. After the third or fourth book, though, he started mailing it in, and then he started preaching his fascist garbage, and he's unreadable now, probably even to Freepers.

Recommendations: If you've never read Gene Wolf's series, starting with the Torturer and going through the Book of the New Sun, go for that one. Best writer of fantasy ever. Starting with the Book of the Long Sun, he reaches a plane few writers of any genre ever achieve.

Elizabeth Moon's Paksenarrion series is good, too.

[Liberal Veteran]

16. Yeah....I actually enjoyed the first couple of books even though..

...they weren't the best thing I ever read by a long shot.

This last one was just so over the top cliched and outright hideously bad I won't be wasting my beautiful mind on his "work" anymore (to borrow a line from Ma Barker).

[Khephra]

22. I just started a re-read of Torturer this week.

It sure is easier to get through the second time around!

[jobycom]

35. I read them all start to finish

Last year sometime. I was so upset with LOTR that I reread the four Torturer books, the one volume Urth of the New Sun, then the Long Sun and the Short Sun series. Wolfe ties them together more than you realize the first time through.

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

40. I had to actually put down "Naked Empire" when I got to that part.

It was clear that the writer, Goodkind, acutally relished writing that part, becuase I could almost hear the ferverent zealotry in his words as if he was speaking them himself.

By the way, the freepers love his books. I checked on the author's website once, peeking at the forums, and it was almost as bad as Freeperville itself. Actually, it was somewhere between Freeperville and Lucianne.com.

Ugh.

Funny thing is, I heard Goodkind was going back to review his books after book seven was universally berated for being a steaming load of crap.

Goodking hates colleges, too. Thinks they're the most oppressive environment in the United States.

[jobycom]

41. I think ole Terry

got a little too impressed with himself, what with all the sci-fi conventioners telling him he was god, and all. I think he's started to believe that he matters OUTSIDE of the world he created.

Sounds like a Freeper.

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

42. Indeed.

Funny thing is...compare how he says he writes novels now to when he was a relative unknown.
I'm paraphrasing here, but originally he said he was building a house for him and his wife, and the characters started talking to him (insert joke about him being insane here) and telling him their story.
Now, he says something like "I have a certain philosophical idea that I need to express, a politicial stance that's never covered by the liberal media, and I wrap the story around that."

Ugh. I'm sorry I helped make that man rich.

[haele]

11. Steven Brust's Dragaera series

With Vlad Taltos and Loiosh...

Fantasy/Mystery with a very light, wry touch and lots of swashbuckling. The author admits to loving Alexander Dumas and bases a lot of his atmosphere to his Hungarian background.

Start at the beginning, though; you really get the charactor development.
The series to begin with:
Jhereg
Yendi
Teckla
Taltos
Phoenix
(and on for quite a few more books... ;-) )

I think the first six are out in reprint in two compelation volumes.

This message posted for Laz, who would have given you the same advice had he been online this weekend.

Haele

[Khephra]

24. And I always have to back up Laz's Brust posts

I freeping LOVE Brust's works!

[Kellanved]

27. Seconded

[cavanaghjam]

12. I don't know what the series is called

but The Forever War by Joe Haldeman (sp?) is part of it. Old but substantial. Also, Greg Benford has a great series though there's a lot of science grounding the theories (do you consider sci fi part of fantasy?). For just a great read, not part of a series, there are two I loved - Gun, with Occasional Music by Lethem and The Watch by Dennis Danvers (I think). Also, Galatea 2.2 (brilliant) by Richard Powers and anything by Bradley Denton (Denton Bradley?). The last four fall into the fantasy genre IMO. None are brand new, but it is only over time one realizes what was truly worthwhile.

[StrongbadTehAwesome]

14. oh, you think "faith of the fallen" was bad? try "naked empire"

Think "Faith of the Fallen," only Goodkind's had 3 years to perfect his novel-as-soapbox-diatribe strategy, and it's against pacifists instead of communists. The man is the master of railing against the strawman. I wonder what would happen if someone wrote a fantasy novel as thick with liberal talking points? (Hmm...this aspiring author may have to try that sometime...but with a better plot line...)

I second the George R.R. Martin recommendation.

[Khephra]

21. I'll cast another vote for the great

George R. R. Martin's Fire and Ice series

[LiberteToujours]

25. Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series is going down the drain too

Which is a real shame, because it really had the potential for something amazing and longlasting. The first six books were incredible.

I would recommend Song of Ice and Fire by George R.R. Martin, and the The Tales of Alvin Maker series by Orson Scott Card. Seventh Son is the first book.

[Salviati]

26. Yeah, the only reason I keep reading it...

is sheer bloody-mindedness. I really am looking forward to A Feast for Crows though, Martin has got a great series going!

[TroubleMan]

33. Yeah Crossroads of Twilight really pissed me off

How many times do we have to hear the Lolial's eyes are as big as teacups, and that he's avoiding his fiancee?

Why is Jordan trying to introduce two or three more plotlines now when he should be wrapping up the hundred or so already going on?

A haunted town....WTF...this was a serious series, now you're bringing in some Scooby Doo shit.

They should have called the bood "Treading Water," because that's what it felt like. This next book better be good or I might give up on the series....well...I probably won't anyway. I've already read ten 300-page or longer books. I'm going to have to finish it.

[LiberteToujours]

47. I know!

I couldn't believe it when he started talking about "ghosts". That word had NEVER been used in the series until the tenth book. I don't believe that the word existed in the series until Jordan decided to throw it in. It really killed a lot of credibility.

[Kellanved]

28. Steven Erikson's "Malazan Book of the Fallen"

Gardens of the Moon
Deadhouse Gates
Memories of Ice
House of Chains
Midnight Tides.


Not easy to get into it, but some of the very best fantasy never written.

[MidwestMomma]

37. Have you read The Barbed Coil by JV Jones?

I liked that.

[ralps]

38. Right now my 2 favorite authors are Piers Anthony and

Spider Robinson. The Xanth series by Piers Anthony is full of fantasy, comedy and LOTS! of puns. Spider Robinson's first book is "Callahan's Crosstime Saloon" a series of short stories about patrons of a bar on Long Island that encounter various strange people. It also has fantasy, comedy and puns.
:hi:

[Rabrrrrrr]

45. I love the Xanth books!

Shoe trees and all that.

Wonderful stuff, and fun to read.

[qnr]

49. So do I n/t

[qnr]

50. Just read "The Summer Country" by James A. Hetley

bought it for the bus trip, enjoyed it

[TroubleMan]

39. Besides for George RR Martin, try R.A. Salvatore

The Forgotten Realms series was excellent...especially the Legacy of the Drow part.

[WindRavenX]

46. Try "Otherland" by Tad Williams

Hands down, the BEST SCI-FI SERIES EVER.

[Kellanved]

48. FWIW: I threw a scifi book in the trash recently

In a recycling bin less.

"Semper Mars" by Douglas. Writing much about it would give it too much credit. :puke:

[Darranar]

51. I hated that book, for precisely that reason...

it was right-wing propaganda, and obviously so.

[GreenPartyVoter]

52. I may have something you might like listed

on my site:

http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/Arts.htm