I need help

[T Wolf]

in dealing with my daughter's choice of "friends."

My 17-year old has three best friends, and two of them are repukes - not just because their parents are but because they "believe" in the causes of the right wing. My problem is what, if anything, to do about this regretable situation.

I know that teenagers are more peer-influenced than parent-guided, but it has gone way too far. Whenever I make a comment about Shrub or repukes, my daughter gets upset because she feels I am directly attacking her friends. So, I refrain from talking about politics when she is around.

Sam is a bright kid who generally is progressive in her own views. She is actually very open-minded and allows that everyone is entitled to their own opinion about things. I am just afraid of the influence these other kids may have on her. They are very dogmatic (love the Chimp, hate Clinton, etc.) and do not have the tolerance that my daughter has. They are much more willing to state their despicable views, with the implicit and explicit message thay they are right and any differing view is unAmerican, etc.

So, what is a father to do? Any advice, especially from parents who have faced a similar problem, will be greatly appreciated.

[leftyandproud]

1. you're too late!

seriously, I don't think you should do anything...She knows your views, and she will be an adult next year and will have to make her own decisions...Honestly, what are you going to do?..tell her she can't see them because they are republicans? That will just make her mad and possibly push her against you (and sub-consciously, your political views)

just let it be...buy her a good lefty book every now and then to read, and let her develop her own philosophy

Some of my best friends are pubs/libertarians and they have no effect on me...If she is smart, she will listen to their input as well as yours...discuss politics without arguing about it, and form her own opinions. Getting a dose of partisanship from both sides is the best way to find out where one stands politically.

[Bandit]

2. Don't refrain from talking ~ ask questions lots of questions

Make them and your daughter defend their positions with logic. It's not enough to just repeat sound bites they have heard. Make them give true idealogy. Logic has a way of working wonders.

[JewelDigger]

6. Yes!

Ask open-ended questions that make them develop and express their thoughts. Compliment when they make a good or valid point - correct them when they state something as fact that's just not true.

Some possible 'talking points' to discuss:

"Wow, did you hear that Condoleezza Rice said on niteline that the U.S. never Said Saddam Was behind 9/11?"
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20030917/pl_nm/iraq_usa_rice_dc&cid=615&ncid=1480

or

"Donald Rumsfeld Sees No Link Between Iraq and 9/11?"
http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/news/special_packages/iraq/6786561.htm

or

Get a copy of the latest 'Vanity Fair' and ask them to read the article by Craig Unger that Dick Cheney Claims No Knowledge That White House Helped Evacuate 24 Members of the Bin Laden Family Days After 9/11

----------------

Remember to TEACH them to think deeply and find out some things for themselves and not to rely on your opinion, or their parents opinion, or Faux News' opinion - they need to get their own (informed) opinion. If you teach them how to begin doing this, I think you will have given them all a wonderful gift!

[Patriot_Spear]

3. Most kids have a well established sense of justice...

Subtly point out the injustice some are facing as a result of RW indifference or the plight of the elederly or the young who suffer form GOP excesses.

Enron, the Saving and Loans scandals of the Bush's*, the plight of veterans, etc.

Nothing angers my oldest son more than when he sees injustice at work.

[Droopy]

4. I'm no expert on these matters, but

Just let her know where you stand on political issues if she doesn't know already. Also, show her why her friends are wrong. Give her Al Franken's new book. It's funny as well as informative. Don't be over-bearing, though. It's probably hard enough to get a 17 year old to pitch in around the house let alone change her thinking.

[gratuitous]

5. The Socratic Method

It sounds like your daughter is a bright person, and you have a decent relationship with her (I'm assuming, since you know who her friends are and at least some of what they talk about). When the corrupt Bush administration does something reprehensible (which is inevitable on a day-to-day basis), mention it to her. Let her voice what she thinks, then get to the "why" of what she thinks.

Gentle probing with questions will expose her thinking, and sharpen her critical and analytical skills. She'll come to the right conclusion; you reared her, don't forget. It might take some time, but within a couple of weeks, you'll probably have clobbered her defenses, and she won't even realize it. She's quite young, probably influenced heavily by her friends, and still quite malleable in her thinking.

Check on the boards at DU for help in addressing specific issues. Everything gets discussed here sooner or later, and there are heaps of valuable talking points. If you get stuck on a topic, just make another post like this and you'll quickly have reams of information to guide your discussion. Good luck.

[phiddle]

7. Seek first to understand.

You can't (nor in my opinion, should you) try to directly control your daughter's choice of friends. I've faced the same collision of views with my extended family, and my kids (especially my son, 16). I've tried many approaches to reforming their points of view, most of which DON'T work: passionate argument, sarcastic asides, earnest entreaties, providing facts and articles to read.
The one and only thing which has had some success for me is to ply my son and his friends with a lot of earnest QUESTIONS. For instance:
Do you think that we should be spending your money, via the deficit, before you guys are even in the workforce?
Do you think that the economic gain we'll realize from reducing environmental restrictions is greater than the cost of increased health problems and climate change down the road?
Do you think that, Saddam Hussein, even though he had no missiles capable of more than 150 miles in range and we can't find any weapons, was an imminent threat to us?
Do you think that the president should just be able to send American kids to die when and where he wants to, or should the president really have to meet some standards for starting a war?

In my observation, teenagers are struggling to make sense of their social and political world. In this condition, simplistic verities (America right or wrong, lower taxes, etc.) have enormous appeal. But when you get them talking, and keep it going through questions, it's amazing what uncertainty and anxiety come out. If you can keep the dialogue going, they'll eventually see that things aren't quite so black-and-white and they become more susceptible to other points of view. And with this strategy, they at a minimum appreciate being listened to, and tend to develop a bit more respect for the old fart who pays their bills! Good luck.

[LeahMira]

8. It's never easy...

They are much more willing to state their despicable views, with the implicit and explicit message
thay they are right and any differing view is unAmerican, etc.


Really, this is the only part of the problem that I would get upset about. You say that your daughter is bright, open-minded, and tolerant, so as a parent you must be doing something right. Explore with your daughter why people have different views other than the possibility that they might be "un-American." Help her to see that people aren't either good or bad, patriotic or unpatriotic, American or un-American. Give her the tools she needs to answer her friends' comments. Let her know that it's not everything about her friends that you have reservations about, and that in fact you are glad to see that these young people are engaged and are thinking about politics in general, but you are just worried about their tendency to label people and to limit themselveswith this either/or kind of thinking.

That's my two cents, speaking as the mother of three adults who turned out pretty well if I do say so myself!

[muriel_volestrangler]

9. If you do use slang terms

like Chimp, repukes and Shrub, in your conversation, cut them out. They're fun and harmless amongst the left, but hardly likely to influence someone who's open-minded. If you don't use them, then my post is of course pointless.

[jonoboy]

10. teenagers !!!

17 ! what an age. She's almost already going to be the opposite to you whatever you are. Its obviously peer pressure. You know she would be surrounded by friends that parrot their parents and what kid at that age can stand up to being shouted down the way any liberal minded person is these days.
Sit it out and just keep making informed comments as others have suggested previously..always stating the truth in a gentle way.
She can only remain a lapsed liberal for so long.

[T Wolf]

11. thanks for the tips

First, it is nice to have a "community" like DU to come to to ask for and get good advice on things.

Second, I need to trust that Sam will be able to learn and evaluate and make up her own mind.
Interestingly, she has to read Newsweek for Social Studies and I have made (more than one) comment about corporate media and how Americans do not get real news anymore. This morning she said (paraphrased), "Dad, I want to say something and I do not want to get in a big discussion about it. Just listen. I know what you say about Newsweek, but in my reading it seems to be pretty even. Last week there was a lot of Bush-bashing." So, I do have hope that she is critically evaluating what she reads.

Third, talking with her, or giving her books (and other materials) to read, is tough because of her loyalty to her friends and her reluctance to spend any of her little free time "learning." But it is worth a try. Too bad there was not a Berenstain Bears and the Evil Ruler when she was growing up. Or, how about Raold Dahl's new book, the BFEE? Or Harry Potter and the Death of Freedom?

Thanks, DU.

[radwriter0555]

12. You HAVE to let her be her own person. If you've raised her right, she

will come to the appropriate conclusions in her own time. And you definitely have.

So refrain from talking politics. It's not like she's a crack smoking trollop hanging at the 7.11... She's FINE.

[ArkDem]

13. Best answer I've seen...........................

....I have 2 teenagers and you really can't think for them.

[WillParkinson]

14. And, if you could,

Would you be as happy with them as a person? You raised them right (no pun intended) and you have to hope that what you taught them sinks in.

[Aristus]

15. My step-daughter used to parrot her father's freeper views.

I, knowing how intelligent she is, checked "Nickled and Dimed" by Barbara Ehrenreich, out of the library and left it around the house. Sure enough, she picked it up and read it. It really opened her eyes to the plight of the working poor in this country and how corporations like Wal-Mart are actively trying to keep workers down.

My step-daughter doesn't goose-step with the reich-wingers anymore. :-)

[rock]

16. Too easy - tell her your not a Repuke

When you criticize bush*sucks, that's who you mean to criticize (I know it's a hard concept for Repukes to follow).