My husband, the pacifist, says WW II could have been won non-violently

[Mizmoon]

Hubby recently told me that he thinks WWII could have been won using Gandhi's methodology. He said, "What if millions and millions of people had marched to Berlin? What if they had collectively walked, literally walked, into Germany and told them to stop?"

I looked at him like he was an idiot and said, "Hitler would have mowed them all down. Millions would have been killed."

"Could he mow them ALL down? Could the German troops have done it? Or would they have come to their senses? And didn't millions die anyway?"

What do you think of this idea?

[Dookus]

1. Unless you had more people

than they had bullets, it probably wouldn't have worked.

[Birthmark]

2. I think your husband is wrong.

Such methods can only be used against people with a conscience. Nazis = no conscience.

[htuttle]

3. I think Nelson Mandela once said,

"Nonviolent civil disobedience only works if your oppressor has a conscience."

I do not think that would have worked against Nazi Germany.

[still_one]

4. sorry but your husband is NOT correct

nobody said a word when 6 million Jews were killed, and they didn't say a word when hitler attacked poland, and eastern europe. It was only after they were attacked did they get worried

[Deja Q]

5. How many marched on Washington before Iraq2003 began?

Humanity seems doomed to wilfully practice what it claims to hate the most.

[reprehensor]

6. You're right.

There was no media infrastructure in place to organize the move of millions of peace protestors to Germany. i.e. the internet, television.

The few thousand that went would have been massacred.

[lazarus]

7. ask him

who's going to volunteer to stand in front and take the bullets without fighting back?

Yeah, millions died anyway, and that was fighting. Imagine how many would have died if they hadn't been fighting back.

[qazplm]

8. your husband is a fine idealist

who would have gotten millions of people slaughtered ;) but not really because people wouldnt have just walked up by the millions like that, it just wouldnt happen, and he wouldnt have to mow them all down, self preservation wins and after the first few thousand in the front row got mowed down, the rest would trample each other to death trying to get away.

Now violence sucks, but like dang near everything else, sometimes its necessary, even preferable.

[skygazer]

9. WWII could have been avoided much earlier

Like all wars. If you look at history, you find that every war could have been avoided if things were done differently in advance. For instance, WWII came about largely because of the Versailles Treaty after WWI which was very harsh and caused widespread poverty and resentment throughout Germany which allowed Hitler to use those feelings to foist blame on the Jews and rise to power.

That's overly simplistic but basically accurate. The American Civil War could have been avoided if slavery had been addressed by the Founders who sort of swept it under the rug and left it for succeeding generations to figure out.

The problem with Hubby's theory is that people would not have done it. Hell, countries refused to take in more than a handful of Jewish refugees, even when it was obvious what was happening to them. It's a nice thought he has but unrealistic.

Wars are best avoided by looking at past experience, trying to avoid the repetition of mistakes, looking at the root cause of conflict and trying to address that before resorting to arms. All things that our fearless leader is hopeless at.

[Mojambo]

16. This is the key

WW2 in many ways was the most avoidable war in history.

The Fascists grasp for power was initially very feeble. The shattered state of the left (including labor and socialist organizations) in Germany and Italy made it difficult for them to mount any kind of resistance. The irony is that even in their weakened state they still could have stopped them, they just refused to try.

Sounds like the Democratic party today has a similar choice to make.

[northzax]

10. er, sorry

I think WWII was one of those exceptions for most pacifists. This is an interesting intellectual exercise, but does he recall that the Nazis were in the process of exterminating several entire ethnic groups from their own country? you think foreigners would be a problem? ang Gandhi, for all hisstrengths, was never dumb enough to lead people into a hail of bullets.

[redsoxliberal]

11. has your husband heard of the blitz?

[Mizmoon]

19. well, since both his parents were British

he's heard about it his whole life. It was the single most traumatizing event of his parent's lives. That's why his soul is looking for a way to have solved the problem and spare his parents.

[candy]

12. How the hell were those people going to get to Berlin?------

We were in the middle of the Great Depression and no one had any money.

Silliest thing I ever heard of in my life!

[R Hickey]

13. Hitler would have mowed them all down.

I'm watching a DVD movie about Hitler, in his early years called "Max."


The whole idea of people 'marching on to Berlin' is just a red herring, since if you could get masses of people to march peacefully to their deaths like that...well, the premis is more far feched than simply imagining Hitler transforming himself into a pacifist on his own accord.

[Nikia]

14. Didn't they put political opponents in cc camps too?

It wasn't just the Jews.

[getoffmytrain]

15. Hitler would've died laughing

at willful ignorance of the marchers, he would have shot and bombed them for a while and then starved the rest to death and then kept his war going. Extreme violence is foolish and pacifism is to... both kill a lot of people... the middle-path is generally the right one as far as any ideology goes.

I've always thought pacifist we're dangerous.

[Crispus Attucks]

17. Too stupid to reply to.....Oops, I replied.

[Mizmoon]

21. That's not a very nice thing to say

If you plan to last very long here, you'll need to learn to be more tactful.

[Crispus Attucks]

22. Well, I was just agreeing with what the wife said..

"I looked at him like he was an idiot and said, "Hitler would have mowed them all down. Millions would have been killed."

Idiot and Stupid (GWB) are the same to me.
And, looks like other posters have same opinion.

Pardon me for having a burr under my saddle about Hitler. Because of him I never met an uncle (killed in WWII when bomb from plane hit center of ship, sank immediately, killing all aboard) Father also served in Navy, North Atlantic. Ruined his career, but at least he came out alive.

[newscaster]

18. Keep in mind, WW2 started l;ong before we got involved.

The Japanese running rampant over Asia. The Germans invaded Poland, all before Dec 7th, 1941.

There are sometimes when pacifism is not what is needed. Sometimes, you have to slap them down fast and hard.

[fugue]

20. I think WWII could've been nonviolently *prevented*

but I don't think it could've been won so.