I don't take astrology seriously at all...

[Conmander in Cheat]

1. The astrologists said that Lien Chan would win Taiwan's Presidential election earlier this year. Thankfully, that didn't materialise and that stupid fascist jerk-off is still crying his ass off.

2. Kerry was also predicted to win. I'm pretty sure that electoral fraud would not throw an astrological prediction off-kilter, given its metaphysical characteristics. (Besides, if we accept both that Bush cheated and that the astrologists were right, we must also except that Chen Shui-bien and the Taiwanese left cheated, as was alleged by the pro-China right-wing parties. I don't buy that, as the only people in Taiwan's politics to cheat are the Kuomintang. How do I know this? Because they are the fucking Kuomintang and they've never played fair in the past.)

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

1. What?

[Webster Green]

2. Well..........

There you go then.

[Rabrrrrrr]

3. No one should take astrology seriously

it's all bunk, crap, and fictitious. For millions of reasons, though the two reasons you offer should also be the nail in the coffin of that delusional, hurtful scam we call astrology. But, sadly, they won't be.

The asstrologers will just say "Well, the astrologers who predicted those were just bad astrologers" or that they misread or made a mistake (failed to take into account some supernbova passing through the 18th quadrant of Scorpio on the 7th day of the new moon rising through Virgo or some such bullshit).

[Helga Scow Stern]

5. You simply are misinformed.

[Rabrrrrrr]

22. No, I'm quite complexly informed

astrology is bullshit. It's actually pretty simple, but it seems that one has to have a complex and informed mind in order to understand that.

Unless you can show me reproducible, scientific evidence that it works, it shall remain, in my view, a very subjective, imprecise, and ultimately bogus bit of either charlatanism (when done for money) or tomfoolery.

The fact that if you get 1000 astrologers together, and ask them the same question, you will get 1000 different responses, 500 of which will be diametrically opposed to one another, sure helps to lead me to the conclusion that it's just bullshit.

And, yeah, I know. The astrologers love to answer that with "Well, that just means you have a lot of bad astrologers". But, when I've posed the question before: "How do you tell a bad astrologer from a good one?" the only answer people have given me is "talk to a few of them, and choose the one who does the good charts."

Which is to say: no one has ever actually answered the question, and told me how to tell if an astrologer is good or not.

And I know why - because it's all bullshit, everyone in it knows its bullshit (or have been deluded to make amazing mental gymnastics to not accept the fact that it's bullshit), and they aren't willing to come out and actually say to the world "World - you were right. It's just bullshit." Because then they'd either have to stop charging people valuable money for bullshit, or give up a very primitive worldview which seems to be the only thing holding their psyche together.

[Helga Scow Stern]

4. I don't know anything about Lien Chan or Taiwanese politics...

not all astrologers or astrological predictions are perfect...
Sometimes astrological predictions are made to sway the public.

In the case of the US election, it was clear that Kerry would win, and that the office of the presidency would be eclipsed.

Not all astrologers saw this, but that does not make astrology wrong.

Astrology is a tool only. How it is used is the key, and it is never infallible.

[miss_kitty]

6. you know if I didn't have my Mars in Scorpio under control

I'd have to smite you. Or someone.

:)

[hinachan]

8. I have Mars in Scorpio too!

Cool! :D

[miss_kitty]

14. doesn't that just INFURIATE you?

(astrology joke!)

[hinachan]

7. Astrology isn't that simplistic

Astrology is like weather forecasting...a lot of it depends on the skill of the interpreter, as well as the positioning of the planets. I read one of the major astrology magazines (sorry I can't remember which one...I was skimming them really quickly while waiting for someone!!), and everything was pretty much leaning toward Bush--as well as indicating that he would have great difficulties to face in the coming years.

I'm not a pro, but a student astrologer, and I'm also more into character analysis ("natal charts") than horary astrology (the actual "predictions"). Still, I know enough to see that neither of these men's charts harmonized well enough with the chart of the USA to make either of them hugely popular (every entity, even buildings, can have a "chart" made, according to when it was "born"...in the case of our country, it's commonly considered 7-4-1776, Sun in Cancer and Gemini rising). So it was destined to be a close race.

However, Bush is a Cancer (7-6-46), which gives him a decided advantage in a Cancerian country. Kerry's a Sagittarius (12-11-43), which is in inharmonious square with the US' rising sign. OK, that's the generalities...now let's get into specifics.

Here's why Kerry got the "Anybody But Bush" vote, as opposed to the "We Want Kerry" vote. Sagittarius is the sign of chronic foot in mouth disease, one major reason he couldn't see why Teresa's similar affliction was a problem. Mercury, planet of communication, is in austere Capricorn...not exactly the personality kid here. Venus (planet of love, socializing, and art) in Scorpio--a placement I also have--indicates someone who's intense and secretive, something I noticed in Kerry long before I saw this chart. It might also indicate why he was drawn to the Skull & Bones society...Venus in Scorpio, when afflicted (as Kerry's is...thank God, mine isn't), makes a person like weird shit. With a few planets in Leo, he also shares a lust for power with Bush, but Jupiter (the great benefic) is in that sign, making it far less dictatorial.

The real problem, though, is a shitload of planets, including Saturn (the great malefic) in Gemini. With a downer like that sitting on top of America's ascendant, this country isn't going to warm up to him very much. Which is sad, because he could've brought a discipline to an America gone wild, since Saturn can bring control to chaos. (No "Get Smart" jokes, please!) Three of the four planets in Gemini are retrograde as well...in short, it's a f***ing mess he has to deal with in terms of dealing with other people and the public in general. With his moon in Gemini, he had potential to resonate with Americans, but without serious effort on his part, this potential would be hard to realize.

As for Bush...this is the first time I've had time to look at Bush's chart, rather than just reading about it, and a couple things leap out at me. For starters, that Leo ascendant (rising sign) and group of planets in Leo explains his arrogance very quickly. Bill Clinton's a Leo, but with charming Libra rising, his Leo tendencies were diluted to a pleasant "star" quality. Bush, on the other hand, has stern Pluto in Leo...kids, all Hitler jokes aside, we do have a true dictator personality on our hands here.

So how'd he bullshit so many people into ignoring this? Well, he has one of the "lunar nodes" in Gemini, a position that gives the ability to play on the emotions of the masses. This is in trine (favorable aspect) to several planets in Libra--including Jupiter, the great benefic. Which, in turn, is trine to the US' ascendant. His Neptune in that sign pretty much reflects his past as a ne'er do well, apparently until Laura Bush (a Scorpio) whipped his ass into shape.

Probably the most ominous thing about Bush's chart is Uranus, the planet of upheaval and revolution, in Gemini--the US' rising sign. The last President to revolutionize the USA was Ronald Reagan, an Aquarius (Uranus is the ruler of that sign). Certainly, we all know that another 4 years of Bush would create a revolution for the religious fanatics and neo-cons, so that seems to bear out.

A couple interesting comments I saw posted by people who know more about astrology than I do....

"And Cheney I see by Horary Basics stepping down as VP, no later than 3 May 2005, no matter what the Election Outcome." Again, I have no experience in horary astrology, so I can't argue for or against this prediction. But it's something to keep in mind, to see what happens....

Another poster wrote: "I also find it interesting that the US chart has Mercury retrograde, which means during Mercury retrograde cycles, it's particularly significant for the US. I wonder if they'll even be finished with Ohio's recount Dec. 13 for the electoral college?" Retrograde Mercury screws up everything...don't sign that contract, don't buy that VCR, because nothing is what it seems, and you'll either end up in court or taking the infernal machine back to the store. It does that to everybody, but especially to those people (or entities) with Mercury retro. This was a really bad time for an election, as far as our country's chart was concerned...because, even if Bush turns out the winner, he's going to be that defective VCR we get stuck with, figuratively speaking.

In short, before you write astrology off as a bunch of crap, please try to understand that it's a very complex subject...much like politics!

[Dookus]

9. Sorry

it's bunk. If the predictions are so vague that they're virtually meaningless, it's bunk.

There is NO evidence that astrology works. None. Zip. Nada. It's all hokum.

[the Princess]

10. Hey Dookus

You're just an expert on everything aren't you??

It must be a huge burden to be right about everything - huh?:eyes:

[Dookus]

11. It must be a huge burden

to be snide about everything.

Where's the evidence astrology works?

Oh, and I don't see YOU admitting to being wrong very often... I mean ever. Look at the mote in your own eye. BITCH!

[the Princess]

12. Wrong about what?

I have no problem admitting I'm wrong - when I am. At 44 I have learned that no one is right all the time and most people are mostly wrong most of the time.

Evidence Astrology works? Well if you get a good astrologer and have a good chart done - it can be amazingly correct. Have you ever studied astrology? Have you ever worked with an astrologer? Astrology done the right way is incredibly complex and very different from the general readings you get in news papers. Dismissing something because you *think* it's dumb - is incredibly naive. If you had spent years studying and delving into the truth about astrology and then you said - "It's all bunk" - I would have to say well this person must know. But you didn't say that - you made a rash statement. The more I learn about astrology - the more I know I will never really understand it - it takes a lifetime to even begin to understand such a complex devining tool.

Am I snide? I would say I'm matter of fact. If I wanted to be snide I would - but I'm not. But you are entitled to your opinion on that and all other matters.

I have a sneaking suspicion you're pretty young - and young people tend to think in black and right. The older you get the more you will realize most things in life are in shades of gray.

So that's it for now - have a good evening. :)

[Dookus]

13. Ask your astrologer to tell you how old I am

you are mistaken in your assumption - I'm 43.

I, too, readily admit when I'm wrong. I also don't randomly accuse other people of personality flaws with nothing to back it up. Of course your previous post was snide, but I've come to expect nothing less of you. I pissed you off once (you had a different name) in the Meeting Room and ever since you've felt compelled to randomly insult me all over the board, and bring your husband along too.

I'm sorry you can't just get along with people in the lounge. I've had many many knock-down drag out fights with people in other forums, and still manage to remain friendly with them here.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CO Liberal]

17. You May Be 43, Dookus....

...but you're acting much younger.

For the record, my wife and I do NOT stalk other DU-ers. We do NOT direct each other around the boards; in fact, many times I post from my office, which is over 45 miles away. But when either of us see stuff we disagree with, we reply.

And if you've had "many knock-down drag out fights with people in other forums", perhaps it's YOU who has the problem - not my wife.

ON EDIT - I just did an archive search on The Meeting Room for posts under my wife's former user name (Mrs.COLiberal) and found NONE!!!! So there another thing you know nothing about...

[sundog]

16. Generally makes no sense...

because I'm compatible with most of the signs that are supposed to be bad for me. I'm a Cap & get along best with Sags & Leos :wtf:

My horrorscope is always wrong. The supposed good days suck & the supposed bad days are great. It is right on about every 10 months or so.

[Jack Schitt]

18. The position of Mars in its orbit has no effect on my life.

Or if its in retrograde.

So yes, I believe astrology is a bunch of crap.

[miss_kitty]

20. OMG! you have Mars RETROGRADE?

DUCK!

:7

[qnr]

19. For me, the only thing astrology is good for is

complaining that I don't know how to spell sagiwhatchamacallit

[nonconformist]

21. From what I read, astrology was split on a Kerry or Bush win

Some sources said it favored Kerry while others said Bush. I believe I saw a numerology report that Bush would win.

[BlueJazz]

23. Your Refrigerator has more of an influence in your daily life than...

....Astrology.

The Gravitational influences (of the Planets) are extremely minor compared to other influences in your daily life.
The Sun and Moon generate more influence by a factor of Millions....

..Plus the Fact that not one Major Astronomer would ever want to be associated with Astrology..