Something Interesting

[Yaoi_Huntress_Earth]

Today in my Advanced Composition class we'll be talking about some essays (two that have Andrea Dworkin(sp) in them) we've read dealing with the subject of porno. I was just wondering what everyone's thoughts about it are. I'd talk somemore, but I got a class to get to.
Love,
Yaoi Huntress Earth

[Wetzelbill]

1. War and porno drive technology

[Tinoire]

2. She's definitely committed!

I studied a paper she had written about a really twisted form of porn popular in Israel and I remember having a really hard time dealing with it.

Awesome woman and you definitely have to admire her committment!

Which 2 essays are you dealing with? I only know the one I mentioned but you might get a better response in the Meeting Room or even in the Lounge.

[Syrinx]

5. well, she should BE committed! n/t

[Yaoi_Huntress_Earth]

10. I'm back

One of them was the War Zone article and another was a roundtable discussion which Dworkin participated in Ms. magazine (the article was printed in I think 1981.)
One thing that really annouyed me about the Ms. article was how a lot of the corespondents were demonizeing men as whole as if all men think of sex as some barbarious act. Let alone not mentioning the cases with female porn directors and gay male porn.
It's the one thing that I hate about certain branches of mordern feminism where men are viewed as women-hating jerks (just look at the movies on Oxygen or the comic book Naughty Bits). Ditto for modern mutli-cultural classes where all White people are viewed as scum because of some crap their ancestors did. Sure we have a ways to go in gender and relations, but this kind of crap is only going to tear us apart even more.
Sorry if I went a little off topic there.
Love,
Yaoi Huntress Earth

[MoonAndSun]

3. I think this thread might belong in The Lounge.

due to the subject matter.

[tkmorris]

6. disagree

I think the topic is quite worthy of discussion. Unfortunately if I am to chip in on the woman in question I have some reading to do.

[Syrinx]

4. Dworkin is a nut

She has said that Hugh Hefner should be tried for rape because some rapists may have looked at the pictures in Playboy. Sheesh.

[Yaoi_Huntress_Earth]

11. *rolls eyes*

I'm sure there are a bunch of rapists who also read Time so should we sue the editors of the magazine as rapists as well?
Love,
Yaoi Huntress Earth

[Eloriel]

7. I've read several books by Dworkin

The one that I think is something of a masterpiece of feminist thought (I started to say "literature" but it's not really a literary work in the normal sense) is Letters From a War Zone.

The other one, whose name I dont remember, left me quite cold, but then it was the type of thing I don't normally appreciate anyway, so it too could be a masterpiece and how would I know.

One reason she's so controversial is that men don't want to give up their porn and women have bought the tired old cliche that porn is free speech. Dworkin will tell you it's hate speech, and I agree with her 100%.

That's as much as I'll participate in this thread. Not interested in any adrenaline rushes today.

Eloriel

[Yaoi_Huntress_Earth]

13. The class result

The class mostly ended up talking more about what consitutes as erotica/porn and how the subject is no so black and white. I collect pictures and fiction with gay male themes (from tame to explicit) and I think I would be a hypocrite if I were to oppose porn. Besides, some of the things in my collection could be considered pornographic.
Love,
Yaoi Huntress Earth

[TreasonousBastard]

8. Dworkin's the radical fringe...

against porn.

I read Dworkin and MacKinnon with the same hairy eyeball I read Larry Flint with. All interesting stuff to debate, but way out there.

fwiw, I saw Jenna Jameson, the big porn star, one-on-one with O'Reilly defending what she does. O'Reilly brought up many of the common arguments against porn, including Dworkin's violence arguments, and Jameson knocked him down on just about every one.

Dworkin does have a point that SOME porn excites violent tendencies in SOME viewers, but that's only a small part of the story. Then, she completely loses it when she goes so far as to equate marital sex with rape. Or equating porn, where the women are pampered and paid VERY well, to rape.

True, there are a lot of relationships that are power games, and rape is not far off the course in many of them. And there's plenty of sleaze and abuse in some corners of the porn business. She's saying, though, that it is fundamental to a sexual relationship, and perhaps all sexual activity, as if we are still cavemen.

(OK, so some of us are, but I thought most of us became civilized at some point)

[Yaoi_Huntress_Earth]

14. Dworkin

Dworkin does have a point that SOME porn excites violent tendencies in SOME viewers, but that's only a small part of the story.

I agree. Even S&M have their saftey messures.

Then, she completely loses it when she goes so far as to equate marital sex with rape.

I've heard about her more extreme views, but no one in my class (including the teacher) knew what I was talking about. I've heard that Dworkin was sexually abused in her youth so that might explain her angry point of view. I wonder what she thinks about women banging their husbands with a strap-on?

Or equating porn, where the women are pampered and paid VERY well, to rape.

She gives feminists in general a bad name. I have nothing against those who choose to partake in this field. Just make sure they're consensual with it and treated well.
Love,
Yaoi Huntress Earth

[Mairead]

9. I personally feel repelled by porn, so that might be biasing my view

I think it's very often unhealthy, or at least catalyses unhealthy behaviors.

I wish it didn't exist, but I recognise that, like prostitution, there will probably be a real need for it for a long time. The way we raise kids is sufficiently haphazard that many get funny ideas about sex.

And I think Dworkin is an extremist at best, a loonie at worst.

[Clete]

12. Dare I admit that some women friends of mine who

are writers have been making money writing porn for some internet e-zines that deal in the subject. It keeps the bills paid while they try to peddle their mainstream works.