Who Wants To Mock (ok, "Civilly Debate") Some HATE MAIL?

[Plaid Adder]

I knew I was going to get hate mail for "Living In Sin," and now I have. This guy says he wants a "civil debate." I don't have time, but I thought you all might enjoy taking a crack at it.

Have at it,

The Plaid Adder

***************
I've read your piece, twice now. I have a few questions, worthy of civil debate.
First, "On Saturday, a different group of Marines attacked the same mosque, and shot the wounded men again. Then, a reporter from NBC videotaped one Marine executing one of the twice-wounded, unarmed prisoners by shooting him in the head at close range."

You've made a few assumptions here. Wouldn't it have been better to await the results of an investigation before convicting this man of executing someone? From the video, he looks like he is executing the other person. But can we be sure? We also don't have any evidence either way of the shot person's ability to fight back. There is no evidence.

In the next part, I have a lot of questions:

"Yet now we're going after one Marine because he didn't remember, before he pulled the trigger, that the man whose head he was about to shatter was not a threat to him, and that as a captured human being still clinging to life, he still had some basic human rights that are supposed to be inviolable."

You make several assumptions here. Not to sound sarcastic, but do you have inside information? We don't have any clue about the man's physical condition, whether he was clinging to life or not. Let me ask a question: when you drive your car and see brake light in front of you, do you think about hitting your brakes or do you do it instinctively? I wonder if instinct played a part in the Marine's decision to shoot at this man, based on some event or events that took place off camera.
Again, "Absolutely that murder was an atrocity." It sounds like you have convicted this man without a trial or even an investigation. Isn't that remnicent of facism? I'm not trying to convict you of anything, but it seems that there are several leaps made in you writing and I would greatly appreciate it if you would clarify.

******************

[Arkana]

1. Self deleted

Deleted due to miscommunication :shrug:

[Plaid Adder]

3. Actually that part is a quote from my column.

It makes more sense in context.

C ya,

The Plaid Adder

[Arkana]

6. Oops. Sorry, dude.

You're right, it does.

[Rumba]

4. Who said what?

I can't tell from the original post if the "Yet now we're going after one Marine..." line was from the poster or from the "civil responder". ?

[Arkana]

7. It was the poster--I screwed up

[Plaid Adder]

9. Not your fault--dude didn't use quotation marks.

I added them in on edit.

C ya,

The Plaid Adder

[SteppingRazor]

2. This man obviously

Hasn't heard the audio feed from the NBC camera:

"He's fucking faking being dead."

"Yeah, he's still breathing."

"He's faking fucking death!"

BLAM!

"He's dead now."


How can you say this was anything but an execution? That's like looking at the Rodney King video and saying, "Well, one thing is obvious -- the police aren't beating the man."

[stlchic]

5. My $.02

“We also don't have any evidence either way of the shot person's ability to fight back. There is no evidence.”

Except for the fact that the guy was lying down, wounded, had no gun in his hand, and there was about a half dozen US soldiers with assault rifles in the room – yeah, he was ready to mount an offensive.

Not saying that there shouldn’t be due process, but there is, strictly speaking, “evidence.”

"Let me ask a question: when you drive your car and see brake light in front of you, do you think about hitting your brakes or do you do it instinctively?"

Most people do. But, per your analogy, this soldier appeared to be at 15 mph, 100 feet off the other guys bumper, and slammed the breaks to avoid a fender bender.

“I wonder if instinct played a part in the Marine's decision to shoot at this man, based on some event or events that took place off camera.”

That’s entirely possible, however reading in context is apparently not one of your (the writer's) talents. It was intended (I believe) to illustrate that there are a lot more grotesque, horrific things going on that people have NOT been paying attention to, or provoked any investigation, and that it's rather backwards that we're shocked (shocked I tell you) that someone else may have been influenced by the examples that are all around him.

Geez, all you have to do is read the next freakin' line of the column:

"How was that Marine supposed to remember something that everyone back home has long ago forgotten?"

[meegbear]

8. These are the same people ...

who read or heard something about Clinton, no matter how bizarre, and immediately shout "SEE! HE EVIL! THIS PROVES IT!".

Yeah, lecture me about assumptions and waiting for all the facts.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

15. DINGDINGDINGDING Ladies and gentlemen, we have a WINNAH! (nt)

[hiley]

10. Besides

You were not convicting the soldier. US Media and US Army has singled out 1 soldier for prosecution. The media and the army ignoring what the full picture is.
The 'civil debator' should have looked at the links provided and needs to go to DahrJamailiraq.com for a look from someone who is not embedded. There are civilians in Fallujah being murdered by our government. The soldiers are doing what soldiers do ... I feel that the plaid adder is saying Government at fault, media at fault, public at fault and if so I agree !:cry:

[eataTREE]

11. This man is terribly confused.

He can't tell the difference between Plaid Adder's column and a court of law. He babbles on about "conviction" and "facism" like Plaidder is somehow a Judge, Jury, and Executioner rather than a pundit crying in the wilderness. She has the right to draw her own conclusions based on the evidence that we've all already seen.

[Plaid Adder]

12. Yeah--because I have the power to enforce my judgments on all mankind! Moo

hoohahaha!!

This is what always surprises me--why do they bother arguing? They have the mass media and all 3 branches of the government, and they're threatened by one crazy snake on a loony left website? Insecure much?

Ah well,

The Plaid Adder

[Plaid Adder]

13. Crying is right

and what a fucking WILDERNESS.

:argh:

The Plaid Adder

[eataTREE]

14. If it makes you feel any better...

...this guy's rant was also a textbook example of argument from ignorance. "Because we don't know for sure that there were not extenuating circumstances that make this Marine's actions other than a gratuitous execution, we should assume that there were such circumstances." Bzzzt. We should draw conclusions based on what we know, not on what we don't know.

Of course, being right is cold comfort when you're lost in the wilderness, isn't it?

[Plaid Adder]

16. It just reminds me of the Rodney King thing. Not in a good way.

I mean think about that from the POV of an African-American living in the LA area. You've been living with police brutality all your life. Finally, FINALLY, the bastards are caught on tape. You think yes, at last, people can see what they're doing to us...and they get acquitted anyway. :wtf:

And it was the same argument: oh, they were scared he was on PCP and he was going to rise from the pavement and kill them all, so they had to beat the crap out of him. As my friend Glen said at the time, "Who is he, HERCULES?"

So imagine what it's like to be an Iraqi, or any Arab or Muslim, reading justifications of this. OK, we finally got one of them on tape shooting an unarmed wounded guy in the head...and they're STILL justifying it? Is there anything that they could do to us that these people WOULDN'T justify?

@#$!,

The Plaid Adder

[eataTREE]

17. They probably experienced this already with the Abu Ghraib photos.

This latest bit of pro bono recruitment propaganda for Mr. Bin Laden won't lower the Iraqi opinion of the USA because it can't get any lower. They think we're there to kill them and take their stuff, and our actions continue to confirm this.

What gets me is that, via my tax dollars, I paid for this. I paid to kill women and children in Fallujah. How exactly am I supposed to atone for this?