New DU Group: Helpful Tips For Anorexic Girls/Bonding & Support Group

[Placebo]

:eyes:

An underground subculture of teenage girls who bond over their eating disorders and glorify bone-thin celebrities has surfaced on the Internet, in a growing trend that experts say frustrates treatment.

The girls share near-starvation diets in Web journals and offer tips for denying hunger pangs or dodging the suspicions of family members. They discuss extreme calorie restriction or weight loss through laxatives, diet pills and purging, or self-induced vomiting. And they post "thinspiration" pictures of their idols -- such as supermodel Kate Moss and the Olsen twins.

In fact, 18-year-old Mary-Kate Olsen, who with her sister Ashley is the face of a multimillion dollar American brand catering to young girls, has become a top icon in the Web communities since spending six weeks in a Utah clinic for an eating disorder earlier this year.

"I found little pictures of Mary-Kate and I'm posting them all over my room and in my backpack and my purse and my car and everywhere, so I am always reminded of her strength. Hopefully it will keep me in check," a college sophomore named Emma writes in her Web journal while considering a three-week fast broken only by soup on every third day.

full article may be found here: http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/ns/news/story.jsp?id=2004111714540002027141&dt=20041117145400&w=RTR&coview=

Oy.

[Lavender Brown]

1. Very disturbing.

:(

[JohnKleeb]

2. You know

If they actually think being ultra skinny is gonna get guys, they are so wrong, of course I like em just regular.

[eataTREE]

3. I don't think it's about getting guys.

I think it's about control, and about denial of the body. Scary, scary stuff. Women die of anorexia all the time.

(My aunt's an ICU nurse. She said, of a woman who died of anorexia on her ward, "All she had to do was eat. I see people every day who would do anything to live, and all she had to do was eat. But she wouldn't.")

[JohnKleeb]

5. dont some women to it because they think they're more attractive thin

Its quite sad honestly.

[BlueEyedSon]

6. It's about Barbies. It's about the "giraffes with tits" in all the fashion

magazines.

The ideal of beauty in the media is sooo weird.

[JohnKleeb]

10. yes, yes it is, thast what I was talking about, they think its pretty

agh a giraffe with boobies doesnt sell it, Ive always liked girls of average height and weight, and who dont let the media influence their life.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

13. I think it starts as trying to look "beautiful" and then progresses to

a need for control over something.

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

14. Yep.

It's all about control control control. That's the basis for all eating disorder "causes".

[pagerbear]

7. It's not about getting guys

Any kind of eating disorder, including compulsive overeating/"binge eating disorder", is about control. So many people with with eating disorders grow up in environments where they feel very little control, and one thing they can control is their bodies. The paradox, of course, is that they can't stop their behavior, whether it's anorexia, bulimia, or bingeing.

Of course, it's a lot more complex than that--I certainly don't mean to oversimplify it or to suggest that there is only one cause or that one theory applies to everyone.

[JohnKleeb]

9. oh of course, I know

but i thought I read that some women do it because they feel unattractive.

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

12. That plays into it

the bottom line is that it comes down to control. People with eating disorders believe that if they can at least control one thing in their lives like their weight, that they will be happier. Most are those with low self-esteem or high anxiety (and this is where body image comes into play...) who THINK nothing is under their own control, and that they need to starve, binge, or whatever to take over some part of their lives.

[JohnKleeb]

25. I see what you guys mean now, my bad

its really sad honestly.

[jukes]

16. JK

some apparently fall into it in order to be UNattractive; a denial of self. i believe i've read that many of these are abuse-victims.

it's really a tragic disease.

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

19. Yep.

A celebrity with a similar story to that is singer Fiona Apple. She was raped and when she realized her curves were what made her attractive... she starved herself to lose them, she became anorexic.

[freeplessinseattle]

30. that's part of the rape effect

the other part is control over what happens to one's body, especially what goes into one's body.

[JohnKleeb]

27. you mean like to disappear?

I really do plead guilty to ignorance here but aren't there some who do it because of fear of getting fat and thus being rejected.

[jukes]

28. i'm no expert

i'm sure that does initiate/complicate it in some cases, but that may be too much of a surface-view.

personally, i think it's akin to SI, another self-destructive behavior.
Self-Injury, also practiced more often by female teens than males, is cutting, burning, "picking", or impacting the body to cause severe pain, thus overpowering emotional pain. cutting is most common & leaves deep, disfiguring scars. people confuse it w/suicidal tendencies, but it really isn't about dying.

[JohnKleeb]

31. I didnt mean to offend if I did btw, sorry if I did

Thanks for trying to clarify, I think I Sort of get it but not really.

[jukes]

36. not at all, kleeb!

and nobody gets it, not even the professionals. it's a very complex problem.

you're just seeking information & trying to understand. nothing wrong w/that, dude.

[JohnKleeb]

38. ok glad I didnt offend

Hope I didn't offend anyone. Really is tragic though to see someone do this to themselves.

[freeplessinseattle]

34. yes it is, and often those with ED's also SI (nt)

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

35. very true

nt

[jukes]

44. prbly very true

i did SI in the late '50's/early '60s; i also had very strange eating habits.

have a psychological block on eating meat since the vietnam war, which is prbly a form of eating-disorder. lends credence to your statement.

[liontamer]

41. many people have disordered eating

and a large part of that is pressure to be attractive. But anorexia isn't clinically diagnosed until a significant amount of weight is lost. For people who eventually fall into that category, attractiveness has nothing to do with it. It's about control. Most anorexics are in fact asexual because their primary focus is their own body.

It's only in recent years that (unhealthy) skinniness has become fashionable. Before that time, there were still anorexics. The motivation was control, not fashion

[Metatron]

45. Exactly right.

From someone who knows.

[Left Is Write]

40. It has nothing - NOTHING - to do with "getting guys."

25 years ago, I was a teenage anorexic. I had never even HEARD the word anorexic - it certainly wasn't talked about then like it is now.

It's an issue of control and self-esteem, a disorder that often affects young people, especially girls, who feel they HAVE no control over their lives and/or who suffer from self-loathing. It's sometimes a manifestion of a perfectionist drive - when nothing else can be perfect or controlled. It's horrible, it's insidious, and it takes over your entire consciousness. It's scary.

And it has nothing to do with getting guys at all.

[JohnKleeb]

43. I realize that now

I agree about the perfectionist drive though.

[jukes]

49. excellent post!

very clarifying, tx++!

[sui generis]

4. Eat Something!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(this is why I'm not an eating disorder counselor)

[bloodyjack]

8. I think I speak for everyone here when I say that boney chicks are HAWT

[prolesunited]

11. I really doubt it

When this topic comes up, the majority of men here say they like a woman who is healthy and has some curves.

Why would you want to feel some woman's bones digging into you or feel like you might break her if you go at it too hard.

To each their own, I guess.

[bloodyjack]

15. I guess every ironic statement has to be followed by a sarcasm tag

</sarcasm>

[jukes]

18. i cawt it

but i think this topic is so disturbing that many of us get tunnelvision & quite literal about it.

no fawlt/no fowl; either side: KUMITE!

[matcom]

17. sorry. not into Bondage with Anorexic Girls

the handcuffs slip off

[freeplessinseattle]

20. ok, if it's about being attractive, then why

do they starve down to an unattractive point, isolate themselves more and more socially, often become more inhibited sexually, flinching from having "fat" parts touched, and are never satisfied with their current weight, when it turns into a numbers game and has little to do with mirrors anymore.

It's like saying that an alcoholic who started drinking socially and felt the need to have a drink before a date to calm nerves is an alcoholic because of dating anxiety, and that's that. and why don't they just stop drinking, fer cripes sake, it's so easy after all.
(btw, anorexics *do* eat, contrary to popular belief, it is a small percentage that don't eat at all and they can't go for more than a few months like this. most anorexics just restrict down to about 200-700 cals/day on average, or fast for a few days then eat restrictively, even a sandwhich now and then, so just convincing them to eat a sandwhich or a decent meal is not an automatic cure. These behaviors typically go on for years before treatment.

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

22. It's not about being attractive.

It's about control. Being able to control and exert power over one area of your life, while seemingly not being able to control anything else. In some cases (like after a rape), it is about becoming unattractive.

[Taverner]

47. Yes, control

Women in todays society have so little control over their lives. Add to that the problems teenage (and now tweenage) girls have in an overlycompetitive school system, where only the elite get to participate in thousand-plus student schools, peer pressure to be skinny, media messages that tell you that you have no worth unless you look a certain way and you have a disaster in motion.

So, the anorexic or bulemic girl looks at this and thinks she can't control school, her grades, her friends or her life, but she CAN control her eating, and she sees rapid results.

Anorexia is the symptom, not the root problem.

[Left Is Write]

42. At my low point, I weighed just 69 pounds.

I was a five-foot-three-inch eighth grader who weighed 69 pounds. I ate 1/2 cup of Rice Krispies with 1/4 cup of milk per day. And that was it. I exercised obsessively - doing literally hundreds of situps, pushups, and other calisthenics, and running or jumping rope to the point of exhaustion. If I did 300 situps one day, I had to do more the next. It was completely out of control, and yet it was my only method of control.

I kept a daily diary of everything I ate, every exercise I did, and how much I weighed. I weighed myself sometimes three or four times a day.

My mother was already alarmed, so she told me later, but she knew she had to get me to a doctor the day I came home from school very upset over having eaten an M&M - ONE single M&M - and fretting because I did not know the calorie count.

This was 1979. We had never heard of anorexia.

[GreenPartyVoter]

21. Not easy having an eating disorder

/bulimic

-----------------------------------
Would Jesus love a liberal? You bet!
http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/

[Ima]

23. It is because

they see themselves as over weight.

[freeplessinseattle]

33. no no no! that's such a myth!

just bc they aren't ever really content with their bodies doesn't mean that they see themselves as overweight, but often see themselves as having areas on the body that are "too fat" but revel in the proof of thinness shown in say bony collarbones or protruding hips, but to them their bodies are warped, always in need of adjustment, b/c being thin is not what they're really searching for, some know this, but haven't quite figured out why they feel the need to be so self-destructive and how to let go of a genuinely addictive behavior-after a certain point of starvation brain chemicals are released that provide a euphoric feeling, and similar ones are released when purging, so this is one biological reason that anorexia and bulimia are so hard to recover from.

[Metatron]

48. It's more a fear of gaining weight

as well as a "disturbance in the way in which one's body weight or shape is experienced, undue influence of body weight or shape on self-evaluation, or denial of the seriousness of the current low body weight." DSM-IV-TR

[Dukakis88]

24. My ideal woman. Her name is "Lucy..."

She's a little on the chubby side, but has a great personality.



I make fat jokes every now and then to encourage her to skip dessert.

[Placebo]

37. HaHaHaHaHaHaHa!!!

Funnest post I've seen ALL DAY.

[JohnKleeb]

39. Lucy in the sky with diiiiiiiiiiiiiamonds

:D isn't that what those crazy brit archaelogists named her after.

[cmf]

26. This makes me so sad

One of my closest friends in high school struggled with anorexia for years and was even hospitalized for it at one time. It's all about control.

[GreenPartyVoter]

29. And behind the controls is FEAR. Big time looming fear. Panic. Anxiety.

-----------------------------------
Would Jesus love a liberal? You bet!
http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

32. yep

nt

[Taverner]

46. Even more disturbing: from a "pro-ana" site

THIS IS JUST FUCKING WRONG!!!!


# about the Venus of Willendorf :
I look upon this sculpture with disgust. I feel shame at her size and obvious distortions of the human anatomy. To me this doesn't symbolize life and fruitfulness, but early death and a body burdened down with layer upon layer. Of course, there is no face. When a person is this size, the body is the focus, not the face or extremities.. Sad to say, a non person, only obesemass, signified,in this sculpture.

# quoted from a story :
Brianne is a fat, ugly, stupid freakish girl in Kevin Simmons's class. She's buck-toothed and has remarkably odd curly hair to complement her enormous gut. Her main characteristic is gluttony, but stupidity and annoyance are close seconds. She has a habit of liking every boy in the class and liking every food in the cafeteria. Her constantly rumbling stomach disrupts the class, and for that and that only Kevin enjoys having her in the room.

# quoted :
Let's face it, the vast majority of women look much better with clothes on then without.

# quoted from a fan site :
Kate Moss is the coolest!! She's got the perfect body and although it makes me feel I should look that way...I love her for it!

# quoted :
...to be appreciated you better be tall and thin and if you aren't tall you better at least be able to keep your weight below 100 lbs.

# quoted from a pro-anorexia site :
I can get thinner. I can cut it all off. I can wear low slung Levi's and crop tops and long straight dresses like willowy models, and I gasp with the breathlessness of being airborne. I can fly and be free. Jesus! I never realized how easy it was.

# quoted :
An imperfect body reflects an imperfect person.

# quoted :
Did you know that the only reason the 'women's movement' was formed was so that fat, ugly chicks could make more money?

# quoted :
You have such a pretty face, why don't you try dieting?

# quoted :
I am heavier now than I have ever been.... The years have not been particularly kind. Being fat only makes me more unattractive.

# quoted :
When I am dieting I usually feel wonderful, sexy, alive, and full of hope. Then I stop due to some emotional catastrophe. I start to eat the bad things again. I stop exercising. I get depressed and eat more. Then I start to despise myself for yet again letting myself falter.

# quoted :
I have heard horror stories of big, fat, ugly women who go online just to talk dirty, but that does not beat the grossness of the big, fat, ugly _men_ who go online to talk dirty -- as women.

# quoted :
If all the stores stopped selling gargantuan clothing then maybe the overweight people would start eating less and exercising more. Obesity is NOT attractive. It is unhealthy, unnecessary and avoidable.

# quoted :
...even if you're fat and ugly on the outside, you'll always be able find someone just as grotesque as you...

# quoted :
My mother and I were at a McDonald's when a small child noted out loud that I was a big fat woman. I had no problem with the child, but with the response of the adult, which was, "Yes, she is fat."

# quoted :
As a child I fantasized about being able to divorce my body at will, my "self" leaving my body behind, perhaps hidden in the closet, or under the blankets at the foot of my bed. The world this bodyless self would inhabit was a world of freedom, of weightlessness. A world where I wasn't judged by the size of my body but by the mind and soul that was my true self.

# quoted :
We can never be good enough because we are disorganized, too fat, too old, or too sick... If you aren’t a good little girl, everything could fall apart. Your children could drop out. Your skin could break out. Your husband could walk out. Your butt could hang out. Better behave and sit like a lady, taking up as little space as possible.

# about a painting :
This picture sucks. No one likes to see a fat girl's ass.

# quoted from a discussion list :
scientifically speaking, placing extra weight on a skinny female doesn't automatically give her T and not usually very attractive A... just women with round stomachs, baggy butts and small chests.

# quoted :
I'm not fat and I don't have an eating disorder, but when I'm in a dressing room trying on a pair of jeans, I hate my body. It's not that it looks horrible or unattractive, but there are bulges in all the wrong places and my stomach isn't exactly flat. I look at myself in the mirror, every flaw magnified by the harsh lights in the dressing room, and then I look at the large posters of the models plastered all over the store and I wonder, "Why can't I look like that?"

[freeplessinseattle]

50. do you mean the sites, or the disease?

there are sites that glorify everything, including pro-suicide sites. the main web hots such as yahoo and aol banned such "pro" ana/mia and suicide sites about 2 years ago, but they always just find a new host. the sites themselves do not cause the disorder-if someone's not suicidal do you think looking at a suicidal site will set them off? if they are suicidal simply connecting with others can help, especially at a point where some people are down so low and so deep that trying to relate to more positive thinking seems ludicrous, and slowly recovering and finding the motivation to seek treament throufh witnessing the progresssing stories of others, encouraging others to live, it is an irony that most people who are suicidal don't feel comfortable encouraging another person's destructive tendencies, very similar to eating disordered individuals..the thing is that some of these sites are actually support sites, encouraging honesty but also support for healthy behavior, with a realistic understanding of the difficulty and complexity of recovery.

[jukes]

51. agreed

i don't think "normals" (no 1 person intended, & no offense to any1) understand the crushing fear & loneliness some people deal w/daily, whether from actual events or disordered perception. i do believe that simply connecting w/ others can sometimes relieve symptomology. @ the very least, there is *some* other outlet than the self-destructive behavior.

[Taverner]

52. Didn't say they shouldnt exist

I'm just saying the quotes were disturbing. The quotes themselves are from a "Pro-Anorexia" site that details how to be anorexic without getting caught, "healthy" ways to do so, and thinspiration pics.

[jukes]

53. quite right, Tav

painfully disturbing...