Sports Illustrated: "Artest should be kicked out of NBA"

[TeddyKGB]

As the dust settles, the voice of reason speaks up. - T.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/writers/chris_mannix/11/20/pacers.react/index.html

...First, let's look at the play that set things in motion. With the Pacers holding a commanding 15-point lead with less than a minute to go, Pistons center Ben Wallace took the ball to the basket for what clearly was nothing more than a garbage-time bucket. Even Wallace's initial defender, Stephen Jackson, recognized the insignificance of Wallace scoring and stepped back, preferring to give up the score in exchange for regaining possession

But once again, Ron Artest interjected himself into a play that had no bearing on the outcome of the game, fouling Wallace from behind as he went up for the lay-up. I listened to ESPN analysts last night talk about how Artest's foul wasn't of the flagrant variety, but that's hardly the point. At no time during that possession did Artest make any kind of play on the basketball. What he did was purposefully shove Wallace in the back and take a swipe with his off hand at the back of his head...

...I'm sure Artest saw who threw the beer at him -- he went directly after one fan in particular. But when you do something as stupid as running into the stands, you not only put yourself at risk, you put the rest of your teammates at risk as well. While Artest was being restrained by security, Fred Jones was getting pounded in the back of the head by a man twice his size. Jackson went in right after Artest and started swinging wildly at a fan who doused Artest with his beer. And in what might have been the most vicious moment of all, Jermaine O'Neal, responding to a fan walking onto the court and confronting Artest, charged towards the fan and landed a punch that hit the man squarely in the jaw. That shot alone should earn O'Neal a 15-game suspension. It's the old mob mentality: When a fight breaks out, it's survival of the fittest...

...But Artest should be thrown out of the league. How many chances can you give a guy that blatantly doesn't care about the consequences? Time after time we have seen this man suffer meltdowns both on and off the court. Throw him out. He doesn't want to be there anyways. Earlier this season Artest hinted to reporters that if the Pacers won the championship this season, he'd retire. Let the NBA help him out the door. You think his teammates enjoy spending countless hours defending him not only on the court, but to the media as well? Let him go work on his music label. What's the NBA waiting for? Artest to kill someone? After last night does anyone out there not think something like that is out of the realm of possibility?...

Also see:
Ron Artest has no business in the NBA
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/basketball/10229363.htm?1c

[sasquatch]

1. What a pile of pig shit

The Detroit Fans are to blame by throwing a glass of beer at Artest. Artest was just doing what the Pacers pay him to do by being the most ferocius defender in the league.

[TeddyKGB]

3. I agree.

What you just said is a pile of pig shit.

"Artest was just doing what the Pacers pay him to do by being the most ferocius defender in the league."

Did you even bother to read what I posted? Do you know the circumstances of Artest's "ferocious defense" on that play?

[sasquatch]

13. Artest doesn't get paid to take plays off

The foul he gave to Wallace was a garden variety foul. Wallace should be suspended for the way he reacted because it wasn't necessary. Wallace was using Artest as a scapegoat for the Pistons losing tonight and caused needless raucass. The reason the Pacers pay Artest is because he plays the toughest defense and he's relentless so blaming Artest for doing his job no matter what the circumstances is horseshit.

[TeddyKGB]

19. Never mind.

You're not even trying to figure out what really happened.

Forget it.

[DrGonzoLives]

54. Neither are you

n/t

[Renew Deal]

14. Should Ben Wallace be thrown out of the league?

He's the one who went over the line first. There would have never been a brawl if Ben Wallace didn't lose it in the first place. Let's suspend him for the year.

[lazarus]

27. Exactly

Just a minute before this, Artest got nailed hard by Ben Wallace on the other end of the court, a shot that should have been called a foul.

This was just standard NBA retribution. But Wallace couldn't handle it, because his team had just been punked in their own house.

[livinbella]

51. Yes, let's can both their asses right out the door!

[Ann Arbor Dem]

75. I don't agree.

He shouldn't have retaliated, but he didn't taunt the Pacers to ratchet up the situation or go into the stands to fight with the fans. He should face some sort of repercussion, but not a year-long suspension.

[DenverDem]

5. Artest is a cheap shot punk.

Defense my ass.

[Guaranteed]

2. I don't know about kicking him out, because a lot of this is on

the fans- but, I think if one more thing anywhere near this happens with him involved, he should definitely be gone for good. The NBA can't afford this type of shit happening more than once.

[TeddyKGB]

7. What the SI blogger was trying to say...

...is that "this type of shit" has already happened more than once with Artest.

He's long since used up his mulligan. Needs to go bye-bye, and right now.

[Guaranteed]

8. What else has happened?

Pardon me for not ever having seen something of this magnitude happening before.

[TeddyKGB]

9. I won't quote specific instances for you...

...but as SI's blogger said, the guy's got a long rap sheet, on the court and off.

This Google search should quickly answer any of your questions about Ron Artest's reputation:

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&q=Ron+Artest

[Renew Deal]

12. A DU search will show your reputation.

Should you be kicked off DU?

[Forkboy]

38. OUCH...that's gotta sting!

[Renew Deal]

11. Well SI Blogger is wrong.

So what?

[DenverDem]

4. Thugs in pro sports.

Artest, Ray Lewis in the NFL who got away with murder, steroided up Barry Bonds who needs an asterisk by his home run records, asinine bad sport Terrel Owens of the Eagles, all of these morans should be banned.

But amerikkka is a thug country, now. We are led by thugs in the white house, we worship theocratic thugs in our churches, our military are out of control thugs in the countries we invade and we make celebrities of sociopaths on our playing fields.

Yeah, the world hates us for our "freedom" (my ass). Our freedom from the ability to feel any shame, perhaps.

[lazarus]

30. Ray Lewis

never was charged with murder. He was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and didn't do the right things afterwards.

Barry Bonds has yet to fail a drug test.

Terrel Owens isn't a bad sport, he's an entertainer.

But I do notice that two of the three have one thing in common: you've convicted them without benefit of a trial.

Maybe our freedom to be innocent until proven guilty should be considered, as well.

[DenverDem]

55. Nice apologism for thuggery. How very amerikkkan of you.

Lewis was at the very least an accessory to murder.

Bonds is dirty as hell.

TO is a punk.

bush is a war criminal.

Just because none of them have been "convicted" doesn't change their guilt.

"Maybe our freedom to be innocent until proven guilty should be considered"-that is SO 11/1/04.

BTW, you might have missed this, but there is no freedom of innocence until guilt is proven in amerikkka, unless you are a publican, at which point there is unconditional freedom from guilt even when proven guilty. (See Swift Boat Liars for neo fascism and Stolen Election 2.)

[DrGonzoLives]

58. Now you make no sense

You castigate lazarus for defending the very principle of jurisprudence that this country is based on, yet go ahead and convict Bonds, Lewis, and Artest, violating it yourself. Hypocrite much?

[lazarus]

59. Howdy, Doc!

Long time no see. Thanks for having my back.

[Tummler]

6. Artest should be praised for his brilliant "preventative" strategery

Some might say that Artest should have gone after the guy who actually threw the cup.

Instead, Artest cleverly went after a dangerous-looking fellow who might have thrown a cup at some point in the future. Who knows how many cups the guy might have thrown, endangering the dryness of everyone at courtside. Heck, the cups might have contained anthrax!

All hail the brilliance of Ron Artest!

[tishaLA]

57. Kudos

an excellent post.

[Renew Deal]

10. Also see not Artests fault. EDIT: Correct story

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/254654p-218079c.html

You are a good example of the Pistons fans we saw tonight.

Edit with the right story

[TeddyKGB]

16. A wire story?

Boy, you really proved your point there.

:eyes:

[chenGOD]

18. A blogger?

Boy you really proved your point there. :eyes:

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[chenGOD]

23. You can find my opinion in post 15. n/m

[chenGOD]

15. How many of you have ever had a beer thrown at you?

I can tell you this, if some chump threw a beer at me, I'd go after him in a hurry.

Buying tickets to the game doesn't give the fans the right to be an asshole. Was Artest's shove on Wallace unwarranted? Sure it was. Was Wallace's reaction over the top? Yes, cause everybody who plays sports knows that sometimes bad things are gonna happen on the court/field/pitch and you deal with other professionals in a professional manner.

The fan throwing a beer? Should be banned from watching sports in person period.

[Renew Deal]

17. Artest didn't shove Wallace.

It was a regular foul. Non flagrant. Non technical. Wallace was throwing shit at Artest before the fans started throwing stuff at him. Maybe Wallace should be banned for the year?

[TeddyKGB]

22. Since you missed it the first time:

...First, let's look at the play that set things in motion. With the Pacers holding a commanding 15-point lead with less than a minute to go, Pistons center Ben Wallace took the ball to the basket for what clearly was nothing more than a garbage-time bucket. Even Wallace's initial defender, Stephen Jackson, recognized the insignificance of Wallace scoring and stepped back, preferring to give up the score in exchange for regaining possession

But once again, Ron Artest interjected himself into a play that had no bearing on the outcome of the game, fouling Wallace from behind as he went up for the lay-up. I listened to ESPN analysts last night talk about how Artest's foul wasn't of the flagrant variety, but that's hardly the point. At no time during that possession did Artest make any kind of play on the basketball. What he did was purposefully shove Wallace in the back and take a swipe with his off hand at the back of his head...

[Renew Deal]

25. I'll accept that for arguments sake. Then what did Wallace do?

[lazarus]

28. Don't accept it

It's wrong. A full minute (game time) before that, Wallace had blocked Artest from behind, hard enough to throw Artest into the goal supports. No call.

Now, suppose the refs make that call...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

32. If I'm At A Party And Some Fool Throws A Beer At Me

he will be pulling my foot out of his ass...


But if I'm a pro athlete I might think twice about running into a crowd and endangering innocent bystanders and myself...

[livinbella]

52. thank you

[Moderator]

29. ATTENTION

I understand many people are upset at the fight that occurred tonight.

Sports can get very heated, on the court, on the field, and on the internets. Let's all try to discuss this without a bunch of insults or attacks.

This is addressed to everyone participating in this thread.

Thank you.

[sasquatch]

31. FIGHT!!!!!!

:silly:

[FuseONE]

33. I'm not exactly a Ron Artest fan....

..but the shit that went down tonight is pretty far from his fault.

[Guaranteed]

34. The more I see of this, the more I blame the fans.

That was ridiculous. All the fans were getting into it. Did you see the end, when they're leaving? Those fans are pieces of shit.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

36. Too Bad Kid Rock Wasn't There

Maybe that bitch would have got his ass kicked in the melee...

[Forkboy]

39. He was there

According the AOL story he was sitting next to Chris Chelios in the crowd (Cheli...what are you thinking?).

[DemocratSinceBirth]

45. During The Lakers-Pistons Championship Series

he was dissing Jack Nicholson who is a huge Lakers fan in the press and threatening to kick his ass....

[Forkboy]

49. That's about what one can expect from Kid Cock

Threatening to beat up an old man :)

[mseang]

35. Much deeper problem...

I believe this is a result of an angry populous. Tempers are at the breaking point and I believe that fans, paying big bucks for those seat are behaving in ways that they may not normally behave. The country is on edge and this is only the beginning of what I believe to be a very ugly four years... ;(

[Guaranteed]

37. Dumbass Repugs on Yahoo disc. board are trying to spin this

as LIBERALS who started this fight.

Just ridiculous. I'm out of posts for awhile, other folks should go over there and set them straight.

[Forkboy]

40. The only thing that should be banned is the selling of beer

[progmom]

56. I gotta agree with you. nt

[Sean Reynolds]

41. He should be kicked out of the NBA.

I know that if I were to get into a fight at work I'd be fired, whether it was my fault or not. He should be punished because of his actions, as should the man involved with the beer throwing to start it all. While the actions by the fan were not justified by ANY means, Artest was the one to throw the first punch, not the other way around. You can say he was instigated by the fan, but in the end he made the decision to attack the fan.

It's that simple. You can't justify any of these actions and Artest should be kicked out of the NBA for attacking a fan. Just like that fan should be arrested and banned from ANY NBA game.

[lazarus]

43. Would you be thrown out of your profession?

Because that's what you're doing if you kick him out of the NBA. He can't just go over to the next league and work.

So, you're sitting at your desk at work, someone comes up and throws a cup of beer on you, you retaliate, and you're permanently barred from your profession.

Sound fair?

[Sean Reynolds]

53. Yup. Fair enough for me.

Except I'm not an athlete paid millions of bucks to sit and toss a ball through a hoop. Every action has a reaction and he should be kicked out of the NBA.

[lazarus]

60. Why do you bring up his salary?

Is there something special about being paid a lot of money that would force him to behave differently?

Every action has a reaction. A fan threw beer on him, and got a reaction. Banned from his profession for life, because of that?

Please. 10 game suspension. And the fan should be banned from the arena for at least a year, as should all the fans that went on the court. They crossed the line first.

[Sean Reynolds]

77. So I take it you're for the death penalty?

Because your logic is the same used by those that support such actions. As in, since he murdered someone I should have the right to murder him. Or how you put it, since he threw a beer at me, I have the right to go punch the shit out of him.

Sorry, but I'm not the kind of guy that supports ANY type of these actions.

I agree with you for the fan being banned for a year. That said, if the fan is banned for a year Artest should be banned from the NBA for a year.

[UrbScotty]

42. A-FREAKING-MEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The game would have ended if he hsad just let security get the guy who threw a bottle at him.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

44. The article is wrong on this...

"I'm sure Artest saw who threw the beer at him -- he went directly after one fan in particular."

Artest was wrong if he believed the guy he went after
was the one who threw the beer.

Artest was on his back on the table with people standing
around the table when the beer was thrown. He couldn't
have seen who threw the beer, but merely went after a
guy in the general area who was jumping around.

The one who threw the beer was the guy in a white cap
and a blue shirt with "Wallace" on the back--the same
one who grabbed Artest from behind twice and
hit him from behind with his right once, and who was
then himself pummelled by some other player in the stands.

[Guaranteed]

46. The guy was yelling and pointing at him.

It seemed pretty clear that he got the right guy.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

47. He did NOT get the right guy.

The right guy was the guy I just described:

White guy
white cap
blue short-sleeved shirt
"WALLACE" on the back of his shirt
when his cap is torn off, he is bald (hair on sides)

When Artest goes into the stands he goes right by
the actual guy who threw the cup of beer,
and THEN that same drunken coward grabs Artest
from behind... and later hits him from behind...

I watched the video a number of times and I guarantee
that it will be shown to be the guy I just described---
NOT the guy in the black shirt & glasses who Artest went after.

[fujiyama]

66. It's still irrelevant

It still doesn't justify ARtest's behavior. He clearly lost his cool (though I think Wallace was overreacting to that foul).

[Michigander4Dean]

48. Totally!

[Socialist Dem]

50. hmmm.....

Why was Artest laying down on the scorer's table? No one has brought this up yet. Artest ONCE AGAIN felt the need for attention, so he goes and lies down on the scorers table while the other players scuffle on the court.

Why didn't he just let security and the ushers take care of the asshole that threw the beer? I know that in most stadiums, that "fan" would have been put in a headlock and escorted out. End of story.

For those of you who don't know about Mr. Artest's activities since he's been in the NBA, you should take a look at his record. Self-serving is the least you can call him.

Sorry, but Artest didn't need to pull his little stunt on the table, there was just no reason for it.

[DrWeird]

61. Bullshit.

Those fans should be arrested for assault and this writer should be fired for being terrible.

[fujiyama]

62. This is nuts

Artest is the one that should have charges pressed against him.

He was losing it, punching people randomly. What an ass hole. I hope he does kicked out.

Fuck the Pacers and their red state team.

[DrWeird]

63. Artest was attacked.

self-defense.

[fujiyama]

64. Nonsense

He was attacked only AFTER he jumped into the stands. The fans got a bit rowdy once the fight started. I'm not excusing their behavior, but Artest was way out of line.

And that fan at the end was punched for no reason and eventually the other dicks from the Pacers started pounding him (I think it was O'Neil and Jackson).

I think Wallace overreacted to the foul, but that was not an ordinary foul. Either way it doesn't justify Artest's behavior of jumping into the stands. Players should know better than that.

[DrWeird]

65. No, he was attacked as he was lying on the table.

You didn't see the whole thing, did you?

[lazarus]

67. There's a lot of that in this debate

Nobody seems to have seen the uncalled hard foul given by Wallace to Artest a minute beforehand.

[DrWeird]

68. It's immaterial, regardless.

Hard fouls are part of the game. There was almost a fight among the players. There wasn't. They were seperated to cool off. That's when a fan decided to attack Artest.

[lazarus]

69. Oh, I agree

Things were calming down nicely until that asshat threw the beer.

But I'm afraid the league is going to decide to make an example of Artest. And that would be wrong.

[DrWeird]

70. "make an example of Artest"

The calls for literal lynchings on the Yahoo boards immediately spring to mind.

If I were an NBA player I'd strike out of solidarity if there were any major punishment of Artest.

[lazarus]

71. I imagine the players' union

will have the legal guns ready to fire over this.

No alcohol after half time, and they need to beef up security. What if that had been battery acid, or a brick, or urine? What if he had been carrying a knife? He was that close.

[DrWeird]

72. "What if that had been a... brick"

You know what? A 32 oz. cup filled with beer weighs over two pounds. Thrown from several seats up, with force, and hitting Atest in the face like it did... That wasn't just "throwing ice on artest" like somebody said, that was assault.

[lazarus]

74. Good point

I hope someone makes it in the media.

[fujiyama]

73. I'll admit

the footage I saw was on the computer and a bit small.

I'll take a look at it later. I still think Artest's punch and those of the others (O'Neil and Jackson) at that fan at the end (I'm not talking about the guy that threw the beer) was completely unjustified.

And I still think Artest is an ass hole regardless.

[HEyHEY]

76. They should shut down the whole league in light of this