Woody Allen:Tortured Genius or Has Been?

[Susang]

Recently watched "Bullets Over Broadway" on cable and the film got me thinking about the nature of art and artists. Is it possible for people to separate the art from the artist?

Or, in this culture of celebrity, is the artist's public life too interconnected in the minds of the public to make this possible?

Can you watch a Woody Allen movie without thinking about the scandals that have surrounded his life in the past few years? When you revisit his films of the past, are they ruined for you or are they just as funny as you remembered them?

[miss_kitty]

1. oh cool!

another flame war over woody allen. I gotta go make some popcorn...carry on. I'll catch up. :D

[Susang]

2. Flames can be fun to watch

I would expect some disagreement in a discussion about the nature of art and the cult of personality. Anything less would be disappointing, to say the least. ;-)

[miss_kitty]

4. oh you did not catch the

genius!-no perv! napalm fest last weekend I think it was...

[Susang]

6. No, I didn't

I rarely post on the weekends. I must have missed that one.

Perhaps the fact that a couple of cable networks have been showing Bullets on the weekend is why the topic keeps being subsequently mentioned here?

[miss_kitty]

28. mmmmmmmmm I dunno

but as you can see, it certainly pisses some people off!

[asthmaticeog]

3. The artist is not the art.

Note that the accusations of "mysogyny" Allen gets are all post the public revelations of his relationship with Soon Yi Previn. Absent that knowledge, it'd be a stretch to find mysogynistic content in his films. Both "Annie Hall" and "Manhattan Murder Mysrtery" read like valentines to his ex. While May-December relationships strike a lot of people as creepy, to hell with a lot of people. "The heart," as Woody himself so eloquently said, "wants what it wants."

[DS1]

5. Woody Allen - Genius or Deja Vu?

:wtf:

[AlCzervik]

7. I like his early stuff-Sleepers, Annie Hall, Interiors, etc

not so much his newer stuff. I can seperate his art from his personal life.

[Susang]

9. Do you separate the two eras

You know, like "old Woody" and "new Woody" and make distinctions on the work based on that? Do you even bother to see any of the new films or do you just assume you won't like them based on your assessment of the last film of his you saw?

I'm asking, because that's rather how I approach his work and I'm wondering if I haven't been unfair. I haven't seen anything of his since Bullets, and I'm wondering if I haven't been making choices based on celebrity gossip rather than my own critical judgments.

[AlCzervik]

12. I've seen Bullets and Everybody says i love you

and some others. I ignore the gossip because his work that i really like is still great. I just don't care for his newer stuff, thats all. I feel the same way about Stephen King. I love his earlier stuff but he lost me in the past 10 years.

[Susang]

52. What did you think of Everybody Says I Love You?

Is that the point when you stopped being interested in his work?

[AlCzervik]

90. It was Bullets over Broadway

I just didnt like it, i can't explain why but it just wasn't my cup of tea. I didn't everybody says i love you, really disliked it.

[johnnie]

8. Either way

"Take the money and run" is one of my all-time favorite films. I'm not really in to his other flicks. But that's just me.

[Bat Boy]

10. We demand a bit of self destruction from our comic icons.

We wouldn't accept anything less.

In silent films we loved their physical destruction. Buster Keaton actually broke his neck once and didn't even notice until he was x-rayed for another injury years later. He was in constant pain. And we laughed.

Lenny Bruce disintegrated before our very eyes, hounded by the humorless and adored, for a time, by the hip.

Chris Farley hit home on a very personal level for me. Inside him was the sweetest, gentlest person on the planet, but with absolutely no sense of his own identity. He allowed himself to be defined by exterior forces, either by the "Belushi" mythos, or by what got the biggest laugh on stage. Toward the end he was sick of the latter. He hated that all the audience wanted was to "watch fatty fall down."

You don't want to go out drinking with Bill Murray. You...you just don't.

I have hundreds of other examples, anecdotally or through personal experience. Comics whose genius comes from a dark scary place.

We just saw a bit of the fucked up nature of Woody Allen in the publicizing of his private life. You may not like it, but that's the wizard behind the curtain, folks. It's emotional wreckage in there.

And that's why he's funny. If you don't like it, don't look.

[Crunchy Frog]

11. Is it possible for him to be both?

His early works are some of my favorite movies ever. At this point I think he's way past his prime.

Yes, I can watch his early stuff without thinking about the later scandals, but he does kind of look like a dirty old man in more contemporary work.

[CBGLuthier]

13. The worst fight I ever got into on DU

Was over Woody Allen. I can understand people not liking how he has conducted his personal life but so many wild and inaccurate statements have been made that it is ridiculous.

I can enjoy his work without prejudice because I don't really have a problem wiht the scandal. Mia Farrow's accusations of child molestation against their son were ludicrous. He was NOT Soon-Yi Previn's father by any menaing of the word and their relationship began after she turned 18. Besides they are still together today so I think they are a happy couple.

I think he has had a few lesser films but thought thet Deconstructing Harry was very good. Mighty Aphrodite was OK too.

[DS1]

14. People end up fucking their adopted parents all the freakin time

I don't know what that's such a difficult concept to grasp :shrug:

[AlCzervik]

15. I think of it this way.....

look at all the stuff that has come out about 30's and 40's movie stars, Bette Davis, Joan Crawford, Errol Flynn and the like. It never stops me from plunking my butt down to watch one of their movies.

[Gothic Sponge]

16. Genius!

[arwalden]

17. I Just Adore Him!!

[arwalden]

18. I Think He's Been Unfairly Malaigned...

... but regardless of what anyone things, why should that keep someone from enjoying his work.

For a brief while, I was so angry at Mel Gibson that I wouldn't allow myself to watch any of my Lethal Weapon DVD's. I also avoided watching Maverick... but hell... why not? I already owned them... why punish myself or deny myself the enjoyment?

[Susang]

53. I am still having that issue with Mel Gibson

Though I have to admit, part of it is that I haven't been as fond of his movies as I used to be for some time now. I'm one of the few people who actually didn't like Braveheart! <gasp!>

[miss_kitty]

74. I still like his early stuff, Mad Max series the stuff he did with

Danny Glover, although my opinion of him has morphed into 'overblown hypocritical tool', I am certainly not going to get into a flame war over it-if he were to do something interesting, I'd go see it.

[Susang]

80. It's funny

My separation from Gibson's films started before I was aware of his religious and political beliefs. I wonder if his turn towards those "values" motivated him to choose the roles he did and subsequently, I enjoyed his films less and less. It's a conundrum.

[Wat_Tyler]

19. Frequent Genius, occasional failure.

[chenGOD]

40. Couldn't have said it better.

I love so much of his stuff. I haven't seen anything after "Curse of the Jade Scorpion", but imo, "Manhattan Murder Mystery", "Bullets over Broadway", "Small Time Crooks", "Everybody Says I Love You" and "Mighty Aphrodite" were some of the finer movies from the 90's early 2000's..

For me the late 80's were kind of a bad patch as far as Woody goes, "Radio Days", "September" and "Another Woman" were some of his poorer movies (although Radio Days was better than the latter two).

As for the "scandal", they were both adults over the age of consent. Woody and Mia were never married. So who cares.

[Susang]

56. I really liked Radio Days

For some reason, that movie strikes a chord with me on an emotional level that very few Woody Allen movies do. It wasn't a big, "important" film, but I liked it nonetheless.

[chenGOD]

65. Yeah I can respect that...

but for me, considering the rest of Allen's output, I'm not crazy about it. It's alright, just not up to par for Woody.

[Susang]

81. I will agree with you there

It almost doesn't even seem like he wrote it. Sure, all of the stock characters are there, but it is an oddity when compared with the rest of his work.

[CO Liberal]

20. Let's Just Call Him a Sick Son of a Bitch And Be Done With It

Are we gonna have to spend EVERY weekend debating that bastard???

:shrug:

[asthmaticeog]

23. How is he sick?

So he's way older. She was 22 when they hooked up, they're both grownups, they've been together over 12 years now, and married since 1997. I wish I could have had such a successful relationship in my life.

[CO Liberal]

24. WRONG!!!!!!!!

She was SEVENTEEN - legally a MINOR - when they "hooked up". She called him "Papa Woody". To me, that's teh definition of sick.

And I have nothing positive to say about this perverted bastard. If you're gonna idolize someone, pick someone who's more worthy.

[asthmaticeog]

25. The age of consent in New York is seventeen.

Papa Woody is "teh" definition of a PUN.

[CO Liberal]

26. I Don't Care What ANY Of You Say

Woody Allen is a sick, perverted, son-of-a-bitch child molester. Any anyone who has any respect for him is extremely misguided.

I'll be putting this thread on "Ignore" now. It's not worth my getting worked up over people too blind to see facts.

[Wat_Tyler]

27. As you've stated before, you are not interested in debate.

That's a real shame, but of course, I'm just 'extremely misguided'.

[arwalden]

43. Wow! I'm Misguided Too.

[Bat Boy]

69. You? Say it ain't so!

:evilgrin:

[arwalden]

97. I'm Able To Separate The Man From His Body Of Work

Despite whatever human imperfections he may have, he's still a comic genius and I enjoy much of his work.

I still like listening to Michael Jackson too... does that make me a bad person?

[Bat Boy]

104. Why yes. Yes, it does.

Bad arwalden! Bad, bad bad!

[asthmaticeog]

30. Though you're ignoring this thread,

it's worth translating your remarks:

"I've made up my mind. Keep your inconvenient facts to yourself!"

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bat Boy]

34. Shame you didn't put it on ignore right away.

But then we would have all missed your petulant exit. And that appears to be the point. Why tell us you're putting it on ignore if you didn't want to be dramatic?

If a beautiful chalice held poison, would it cease to be a beautiful chalice?

Woody Allen's films have been influential to generations of filmmakers. To suddenly dismiss them because you disapprove of the man won't change that. The influence he has had on comedy won't alter one little bit.

But of course this is just the "too blind to see facts" attempting to communicate with the "too deaf to hear reason."

[CO Liberal]

45. I'm Eagerly Awaiting...

...your thread claiming that Roman Polanski got a raw deal....

[Wat_Tyler]

49. Who knows the real story there?

What position are we in, that we can judge? I would be very careful in being so judgemental.

[Bat Boy]

57. Your ignore feature is apparently malfunctioning.

You might want to contact the admins about that.

You seem to be incapable of separating the art from the artist. I'm sorry for that. Must take a whole lot of joy out of the world.

You can never enjoy Wagner. Nazi you know.

You could never enjoy Lenny Bruce. He was obscene. Court said so. Of course then they took it back, so you can enjoy him again. Lucky you.

Picasso was horrific womanizer. Now Guernica sucks. Shame, really. I always liked that painting.

Woody Allen apparently had an inappropriate relationship with his adopted daughter. Annie Hall and Manhattan are now filth.

Do you see the strain you are putting on logic?

And since you mentioned Polanski, I'm still trying to hate Rosemary's Baby and Chinatown, but I'm having a tough time of it. The whole Sharon Tate thing may be a mitigating factor. I think I'll start by hating Fearless Vampire Killers and work my way up from there.

[BoX o BooX]

62. I really want to stay away from this thread,

But I can't seem to look away.

All I'll do is ask that people PLEASE stop referring to Soon-Yi Previn as Allen's daughter, adopted daughter, or stepdaughter. She was none of these. Allen and Farrow never married. Allen and Farrow never even lived together. Previn was, by no definition, Allen's daughter, adopted daughter, or stepdaughter. Period. This is fact, and not open to debate.

[Bat Boy]

66. Excellent point! Mia Farrow Culpa.n/t

[chenGOD]

72. Thanks:)

Way to ruin a perfectly good thread by introducing some facts into it.

lol

joking of course, I was gonna post exactly that, but couldn't be bothered. and then you said it so much better (and more kindly) than I would have.

[RetroLounge]

112. Wow. Sounds like someone has their own Daddy Issue

to deal with...

Woody is a genius at times, and sucks other times.

I can give a shit about his private life. I don't pay box office to see it.

RL

[Susang]

33. I'm sorry that you don't feel you can handle honest debate

Myself, I'm very interested in the subject. It's not like anybody insisted you participate in the discussion, is it?

I'm sorry that I don't follow your weekend flame wars and post accordingly. Next time I decide to post a thoughtful thread on the nature of art and man, I'll be sure to clear it with you, the self appointed DU thought police first, okay? If that is not alright , please let me know what criteria my weekend Lounge posts must meet before they pass before they are acceptable in your eyes.

[CO Liberal]

46. How About Posting Something....

...that doesn't heap praise on a scumbag????

[Susang]

51. While I appreciate your helpful hint about what I should post

I would hardly categorize my original post as heaping praise on a scumbag. :eyes:

Perhaps you should think about posting something in this thread that is not inflammatory and that actually addresses the questions I asked in the OP? Or is thoughtful and civil discourse too much to hope for from certain people on this subject?

[miss_kitty]

55. like Astrology. eom

[miss_kitty]

54. OK. we get it. we heard you the third time. last week

you don't like Woody Allen. So why are you still posting on this thread? You said 16 hours ago you were putting this thread on ignore. 'Ignore thread' is working at my house. Is it broken at yours? I have a load of threads on ignore. I did not open them up and post comments that had nothing to do with the OP declare the members wrong then announce "I'm hiding this thread!" and then not do it. I put them on 'Ignore' post haste.

Maybe you could do the same? Or does Mars reside in Scorpio?

[Deja Q]

21. Has-been.

Hasn't been funny since Annie Hall.

Increasingly psycho, really. Soon-Yi proved he went over the edge too.

[IrishBloodEngHeart]

22. He needs a filter

Certain artists are so good, they get overconfident and think every idea they have should be developed and put out as a project.

I would like to see him work more colaboratively and listen to constructive criticism, but right now he just keeps churning out the same, boring repetetive stuff.

[x-g.o.p.er]

29. Tortured has-been n/t

[TexasSissy]

31. I think of his pedophilia-type behavior when I see his films, which

isn't often, since I now avoid them. Every now and then I watch part of a favorite, but not often, and not all of it.

As with Picasso, who was a despicable human being, I do not separate the artist from his art. It matters to me WHO the artist is and what s/he stands for. It doesn't matter to others, and still to others it matters but they wouldn't say or they wouldn't get a role in his next movie.

Woody Allen is a pervert, IMO. And a despicable human being. The fact that the guy made some good movies doesn't change that. And his character alters the way I view his movies now.

[Spock_is_Skeptical]

32. tortured has-been. not funny.

[Susang]

71. Was he ever funny?

You called him a has-been. Does that mean that you felt his work was worth something once and is not any longer?

Or when you said "not funny" did you mean you never thought he was funny?

[BoX o BooX]

78. If he had ONLY made "Take The Money And Run,"

He could be regarded one of history's comic geniuses. And yet, he did so much more.

Was he ever FUNNY??? Have you SEEN any of his movies?

[Spock_is_Skeptical]

110. Never could stand him.

'Has-been' was therefore a misleading term for me to use. Sorry.
And no, I never thought he was funny. Just overrated.

[Susang]

111. No need to apologize

I was just curious about whether you had ever liked him or not.

If you don't mind me asking, what comedies do you find funny, if not early Woody Allen?

[SemiCharmedQuark]

35. Woody Allen: Flamebait.

Good luck with this thread, you have my sympathy... :hug:

[Susang]

36. No

This thread about Woody Allen's films is only flame bait to intellectual midgets who cannot understand a thoughtful topic that was specifically phrased in a manner so as not to be inflammatory.

I don't need your sympathy or good luck, I only asked for your opinion on the man's films when considered with his life. Why is that such a hard concept to understand?

[SemiCharmedQuark]

37. Someone had her grouchy flakes this morning

I was not criticizing, but I remember the last Woody Allen thread and all of the negative feelings it caused. I personally feel really terrible when a thread goes wrong unintentionally wrong. I know you phrased it thoughtfully. Maybe flamebait was the wrong word. What is the word for: This thread no matter how thoughtfully it is phrased will end up on a completely different subject matter than the poster intended? It wasn't a comment about you. It was a comment about the fact that this is a hot button issue that no matter how thoughtfully the thread starts always ends up getting dragged into the emotions of the posters.

But that's ok. Go ahead and be mean.

[Susang]

38. My post was not mean

But that's okay. Go ahead and be flippant. It's easier than thinking.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

39. Flippant?

I didn't mean my first post the way you took it, so I tried to clarify it. And you called me a mental midget in your first post...that's not really nice. And now you say I'm not thinking just because I was hurt by that?

On a second reading, my post does read a little worse than I intended it too. I tend to take things too personally and I try and brush it off with lame jokes. It's a coping mechanism. I apologize, I did not mean to be disrespectful in any way.

[Susang]

63. We're cool

No harm, no foul. :-)

Just to clarify on my part, I did not call you a mental midget in my post, as you did not intend to call this thread "flamebait" in the way I understand it.

To me, when a post is called "flamebait" it is usually assumed that the poster is trying to stir up trouble or start a flame war and that was not my intention at all. The people I believe to be mental midgets are anyone who would read my OP and believe that I was intentionally trying to stir up shit, just to be an asshat.

Believe it or not, I actually like passionate discussions about controversial topics. I like them even better when they don't devolve into knee-jerk feces-throwing fests like this one seems to be turning into. After being here at DU for three years now, you'd think people would be familiar with the topics I like to discuss. Apparently not.

BTW, the "grouchy flakes" thing pissed me off, but it was very funny. I'm almost tempted to change my name. ;-)

[miss_kitty]

68. "I'm almost tempted to change my name..."

you got a few hours left!
SusanGrouchyFlakes?

:evilgrin:

[Susang]

73. Just "Grouchy Flakes" I think

I don't think I have the guts. I am Susang and it is me. Hard to change after three years. I wouldn't recognize my own threads. ;-)

[miss_kitty]

83. I know

I nearly had a Heart attack burying mlle-chatte in the litter box last night...but I've been 'miss_kitty' since May 2003 when I joined hypocrites.com, and it was closing in on time. I don't even know how to pronounce 'mlle_chatte.' and it leaves people with the impression I speak French.

I finally figured out you are Susan-G and not su-sang...:D

[SemiCharmedQuark]

70. Thanks

I looked back at my post and reread it and immediately saw how badly it sounded. Doh!

Thanks again for understanding.

:)

[Susang]

76. 4:00 AM is tough on us all

Just once, I'd like to see the sun rise when I'm getting up from bed instead of the other way around. ;-)

[Wat_Tyler]

50. Someone else had her condescension flakes, it seems.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

58. What in the heck.

I said something that was taken the wrong way. I tried to clarify and I got pounced on. I apologized for the tone and I still get pounced on . It was a stupid joke because I was trying to mask the uncomfortable feelings I was having. It came off differently than I meant it to. I was trying to just...brush it off. I have a tendency to take things too seriously. And then I apologized.

It just went completely wrong.

Post one was supposed to convey this feeling: "I am sorry that your well-intentioned post is going to end up being a flame WAR because people's emotions get wound up into this issue."

Post two was supposed to convey this feeling:" I said the wrong thing when I said flamebait, I meant...(see above). Add in some lame jokes to try and cover up the feelings of crapiness I was having"

Ok?

[miss_kitty]

60. look it's flaming

Susang did not see last week's thread...go look at the very first comments. But the fact that certain members turn a post on Woody Allen's Talent, or lack thereof into a 'Woody Allen is a scumbag' thread is kind of edgy-making I guess. I'm still popping corn, myself.

It's an internet chat thinger. Sometimes it's good not to take things so seriously.

:hi:

[skygazer]

98. And I thank you for the popcorn suggestion

As soon as I saw your first post, I thought, "Ooh, what better way to enjoy a Woody Allen thread!".

For Susang, as for the original question, I was never really into Woody's movies. I've enjoyed some but never was a real aficianado (that is no doubt spelled wrong - we'll see if spell check catches it). His thing with Soon Yi kind of creeped me out but at the same time, I don't know him or her or Mia or the real details (make a note - must subscribe to People magazine) so I don't tend to worry about it. I don't think it really changes the way I look at his movies but I'm not so sure either. Your comment about Mel made me think - it may without my even realizing it. Interesting question.

[SoCalDem]

41. Just an old creep..with pedophilic tendencies

:puke:

[bleedingheart]

42. he directed his life into a nightmare.

sorry but he directed his life like he directed his movies. while I have liked some of his movies I have a hard time separating the scandal involving him and his teen step-daughter and his career.

He betrayed Mia Farrow in a very sick and disturbing way. Sorry but it is just sick to sleep with your step-daughter. He is a famous director/actor, he could have had his pick of young and legal women to sleep with but he targeted that girl...and I don't believe for an instant that he wasn't messing with that girl before she was legal.

Overall his behavior affected the way I look at his movies.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

47. You believe everything you read? Really?

Screw his personal life. What's it to you, anyway?

There is no hope for a middle-aged man up against a horny teenage girl. I know - I was that girl. So, before you put it all on the man, consider that the young lady seems very happy and never looked back, did she?

Plus, Mia Farrow's nuts, don't you think? A woman scorned, and all that.

Woody Allen's movies suck ever since "Annie Hall" because he lives in a narrow little, self-referential world, and he simply ran out of material. He stopped being original, creative, or smart, and that, for me, was the death knell for his movies.

But, as for his personal life, never think, because you read it in People magazine (so to speak) that you know the truth about a person. You just don't. An artist's art speaks to me - not anything else.

[Susang]

59. Are you responding to the post I wrote?

Did I ever once say I believed what was said of him or that I judged him for it? I defy you to produce one sentence or word where I "put it all on the man".

I was asking for opinions on his films and whether people were able to divorce themselves from the gossip to judge them accurately. I appreciate the the latter part of your post where you did that. Your view point was very interesting, although I'm still a little confused as to why you think I'm so focused on Allen's personal life or read People magazine. :shrug:

[OldLeftieLawyer]

75. My goodness...........

For someone who wanted opinions, you sure are taking mine personally. I spoke not to you, but to your question.

Don't be so defensive. It could someday turn you into a Republican, I hear.......

[Susang]

89. How could you not speak to me

And yet answer my post? :freak:

Don't be so condescending. It could someday turn you into a Republican, I hear......

[OldLeftieLawyer]

96. Oh, dear............

You are not your question.

And now you know my answer to the question about Woodie Allen movies. That's all you wanted, right? So why get so exercised about my opinion regarding Woodie's reputation and marriage?

::: sigh ::::

See what happens when you read too much People magazine?

[Susang]

101. Your Christopher Walken avatar suits you

:crazy:

[OldLeftieLawyer]

107. Why, thank you

He's a great actor, a brilliant artist, and a true professional.

Thank you.

[Susang]

109. He is all of those things...and more.

:crazy:

[CatWoman]

61. OH...............MY...................FUCKING...............GAWD

There is no hope for a middle-aged man up against a horny teenage girl.

[Susang]

67. Have I told you lately that I love you?

I do you know. :D

[CatWoman]

82. LOL --Right back atcha baby!!!

:hi:

by that logic, Soon Yi better put a padlock on her daughter's snatches, dontcha think?

[OldLeftieLawyer]

85. Vulgarity to make your point

Catchy. Kind of smarmy, but catchy.

Actually, they're called "chastity belts."

You'd have known that if you weren't reading People magazine all the time.

[CatWoman]

87. well, I'm a vulgar kinda person

when we are talking about vulgar topics

while wer'e at it, can we put a padlock on Woody's dick, too?

and you're a lawyer???

man, I'd love to catch some of your "arguments"

and what's your hangups with People Magazine?? Is that your only comeback? :shrug:

I've seen you use it on someone else.

[Susang]

91. That was me!

And Miss Kitty too, I think. Lets have a People party! :party: :toast: :party: :toast:

[CatWoman]

93. LOLOLOLOL

I'M IN!!!!!!

:party: :toast: :party: :toast:

[Bat Boy]

64. Who the...what?

As a middle aged man (43 today) I'm not quite sure how to respond to that. So I asked my penis.

My penis said nothing. Turns out the little guy doesn't have a brain after all and I have to do the thinking for both of us, and that of course leaves me with the responsibility for both of our actions.

I am so sick of the notion that men are nothing but slaves to our libidos. Guys, we really gotta knock that shit off.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

77. Happy Birthday, and

hooray for you.

You are, however, in the minority of the man I sampled. My experience, and that's all I saying, is that middle-aged men (at 43, you're just entering middle-age, in my opinion) are more often than not slaves to their desires. Just my experience.

Woody was much older than you when he took up with Mia's stepdaughter.

[CatWoman]

84. so now the girl has been reduced to being Mia's stepdaughter?

:shrug:

what will she morph into next in order to justify her fucking her mother's boyfriend?

[Bat Boy]

88. I'm not sure how clinical your research was...

And if it was clinical, the nature of the clinic.

Perhaps I'm just being optimistic, but I think there are more of my mindset than one would think.

You just don't hear from us much. We aren't that exciting.

[miss_kitty]

48. You know I am surprised to see people who avidly advocate

some members being banned from posting in threads about subjects they don't agree with, and accusing member who do so as 'abusive', posting multiple times in threads on a subject they hate, and they seem very angry with and insulting to other members. Abusive? :shrug:

JMHO.

on the other: NO ONE HERE KNOWS WHAT WOODY ALLEN DID OR DID NOT DO. WE WEREN'T THERE.

I like some of his work, but I haven't seen anything in years

[OldLeftieLawyer]

79. Thank you......

......... and may I offer you a complimentary copy of People magazine?

[miss_kitty]

86. Oh Please!

I can't wait to find out if that Jessica person can get along without what's-his-name, since he was caught at a strip club and she kicked his augmented ass outta the house...
:D

[OldLeftieLawyer]

95. You know............

I think Nick's too good for Jessica.

And her father is really strange. :)

[snoochie]

92. I can enjoy his movies as much as ever

His peronsal life is something completely separate from his work, IMO.

[212demop]

94. You must separate the art from the artist-

imagine- people like T.S. Eliot and Ezra Pound would be denigrated so constantly for their politics we wouldn't be reading Prufrock or The Wasteland in school, and the works would be tainted.

On the other hand specifically biographical stuff like Night and Survival in Aucshwitz can be seen through the lens of what we know about the person, but they are classics because they stand on their own, right? We don't need to know that Primo Levi ultimately killed himself or that Van Gogh did, or that after he made Husbands and Wives Woody Allen wound up with Soon Yi. The point is he made these movies that are indelible- Hannah and Her Sisters, Crimes and Misdemeanors, Annie Hall, Manhattan... That his later work is not as good is typical of a lot of artists. I just heard an interviewer express surprise that Philip Roth is peaking now, given the excellent work early on- Roth's consistancy is atypical.

[Susang]

99. Great point and a great post!

Thanks, I appreciate your thoughtful words. I agree entirely. I also believe that it is impossible to judge what kind of person the artist is based on their work. Since most of us will never personally meet the artist, but will encounter the artist's work, how is it relevant to us what kind of person the artist is? The only thing that is important is whether the art speaks to us or not.

In my opinion, of course. ;-)

[212demop]

103. Thanks for your kind words!

Now I'll have a little spring in my step.

:)

[Metatron]

100. I'm in the minority, here.

I just cannot get into the early Woody Allen slapstick, but I really enjoy most of recent work. I've never been able to watch Bananas all the way through, and Sleeper is only marginally better. OTOH, September made me want to kill myself from boredom :)

As far as most of his other work from the last twenty or so years, I have thoroughly enjoyed it and have no problem separating the flawed human being from the art. We are all flawed in some way. Celebrities' problems are amplified in the media - and become a secondary source of entertainment to many people.

[Susang]

102. What is it you like about his recent work?

I'm glad to see there are still so many people who are able to appreciate the art separate from the artist's public persona. It can often be a hard thing to do for many people. I've had to fight against it occasionally myself.

If you were to recommend one of Allen's more recent films, which would you say was your favorite? I'm looking for a kind of a jumping off point, if you will.

[Metatron]

105. I just checked his filmography.

I have missed most of his stuff from the last 3 years, but did like Hollywood Ending. Also, I truly enjoyed Mighty Aphrodite. To use the classic Greek theatrical style today, and have it actually work well in film, impresses me a lot. Sweet and Lowdown was quite good, and although I wasn't too impressed the first time I saw it, The Curse of the Jade Spider gets better every time I watch it.

I think he still experiments with style - some films like Deconstructing Harry really epitomize his work in the 1990s, while other films are not necessarily critically acclaimed, but somehow touch my heart. Alice and Radio Days are such sweet stories - maybe not "typical" Allen flicks (although it is easy to see certain elements carry through in almost all of his films).

[Susang]

106. My Netflix queue will just have to get longer

It may just burst from the strain. Thanks for the input! :hi:

[Metatron]

108. My pleasure, Susang