From where the hell does Starfleet get its funding?

[Rabrrrrrr]

I've always wondered.

Just who, exactly, is paying for all those ships and photon torpedos and class-A probes and salaries?

[Metatron]

1. You tax dollars at work!

[Rabrrrrrr]

2. But who's paying the taxes? And with what?

[fleabert]

3. There's no money by that time.

If I remember correctly, it was eliminated. Everyone gets what everyone needs, very Communist. I could be wrong, but I thought there was a STNG episode that addressed the money issue. I think they barter with other planets and federations if they need to.

(yes, I am a baby Trekkie)

[Deja Q]

COrrect. Even some TOS episodes alluded to the idea that there's no money

in the future.

TNG did so more frequently and consistently, including the movie "First Contact".

[dorktv]

56. money like we have is missing but people have credits or something

Dr. Crusher in the first episode of TNG talked about it when shopping.

[Autobot77]

51. Exactly, but...

Its mentioned in ST4. Also, on TNG:FC. However, there are episodes where they do mention some sort of money. In ST6, Scotty mentions he bought a boat. Also, in the TNG pilot, Dr Crusher tells someone to "charge it on her Starfleet account".Also in one of the TOS eps with Harry Mudd, he talked about selling brides to colonists.

[Placebo]

4. I'd really love a personal shuttlecraft.

I just hope that's in the budget!

[Liberal Veteran]

43. They just give away shuttlecrafts......

Voyager was trapped in the Delta quadrant and each week it seemed like they found new and exciting ways to dispose of their apparently limitless supply of shuttlecrafts.

Need a decoy? Shuttlecraft.
Need a test module? Shuttlecraft.
Find a species that is being oppressed? Give them a shuttlecraft.
Need to replace Kes with Seven, plop her ass on shuttlecraft.

It became a running joke on the Voyager boards. They left DS9 with 3 shuttlecraft and in the course of 7 years only managed to destroy or lose/give away about 40 of them.

[trogdor]

49. Well, they did make the Delta Flyer from scrap.

Then they made another one. IIRC, the Delta Flyer was the response to all the jokes about the shuttlecraft.

[Downtown Hound]

5. Can't they just replicate stuff out of thin air?

You wouldn't need money in a society like that. Just build and build and build.

[Rabrrrrrr]

7. But someone has to build it, and dig up the ore, and etc.

As another poster mentioned, I believe the Star Trek future has no money. Star Trek IV definitely made that point.

And Time's Arrow made the point that poverty and hunger had been eliminated.

And on the other hand, other episodes of TNG (and maybe others) DO make mention of some kind of money thing.

I can't imagine that Picard can go to Risa without paying for it, you know?

As much as I love the future that Roddenberry envisioned, and I think it's something worth striving for, he never addressed the economic situation. And without economy, there can be no society. The way that the Star Trek/Federation universe is put together, I don't see how they can have any kind of viable economic system. And yet, they must.

[trogdor]

23. It is never explained very well.

For such a system to work, you have to have sufficient plenty to make money a moot concept. I cannot imagine an economy where this is the case. In order to get such an economy started, you have to convince people that they have enough, and this would be a hard thing to do.

You would also have to provide some form of motivation for Federation citizens to continue to work hard - or at least work thoughtfully and well. The Federation honors things like self-improvement, dedication to a higher cause, etc., so I would imagine everyone's contributions are well-appreciated. That's pretty powerful stuff, but I'm not entirely convinced that is enough.

[Autobot77]

54. They replicate most things apparenty

Food, clothes etc. Also they've mentiones industrial replicators for ship parts, so they don't dig up ore exactly. (Of course if they didn't replicate it they could just beam up metals.)
I agree, it does seem far-fetched. Of course apparently in the ST future, humans have evolved past things like materialism, conflict etc. Also in Furst Contact Picard stated that people work for the betterment of society...or something like that. Maybe its a communist type system.

[neuvocat]

6. From Star Bucks

<ducks>

[LeftyMom]

8. How the hell does a economy work

when you can replicate damned near anything? My guess is they're in hock to the Ferengis and in ten minutes the Grand Nagus is gonna come reposess all thier shit.

[laheina]

17. LOL!

Just like earthlings to finance all of our fun.

[Dukakis88]

9. Stem cells. It's what their uniforms are made out of...

[uhhuh]

10. This link may help

http://www.geocities.com/willbswift/costchart2.html

[fleabert]

11. all I can say is:

OCD.

[crispini]

38. Wow.

Some people have a LOT of spare time..............

[Placebo]

12. I just remember it took World War III and nuclear catastrophe...

and then meeting the vulcans to really change things...

after that, I got nothin' :shrug:

[jdots]

13. couldn't they just beam themselves everywhere.

vats with the ships,oy a big waste of money....now the holo deck would be worth funding.

[Oeditpus Rex]

14. Starfleet is self-sustaining.

There's a little box in all the starship elevators that makes the doors go <shoop>. Y'gotta deposit a quarter.

[Selatius]

15. Their economy is a giant example of collectivism, I guess

That's the only way I could conceive as to how people don't need money.

It's like walking into a town, and you are skilled as a doctor. The folks there say they need a doctor, but they don't have money to pay you, and you want to live there, so the arrangement is that you will become the town doctor, and in exchange, you'll be given food, water, and a place to stay. The payment is therefore the food, water, and the place to stay. As long as you treat people for sickness and such, they will repay your efforts.

Does this make sense to anyone here?

[magellan]

16. There's no money

It's been replaced with credits. Works the same way as money but credits are accepted anywhere in Federation space.

I'm not so sure about the utopian society Picard describes in that one episode of TNG. Earth seems to run a democratic world government that ensures everyone starts out with the same opportunities, the only limit being the individual's personal ability and desire. But I think capitalism is still at work. They just managed to excise its corrupt form completely from politics. Whatever, I'd like to know how the hell they did it.

I'd also like a holodeck for Xmas. Or a stargate.

Good topic. I'm a McCoy fan from way back!

[Jose Diablo]

22. The need for a social tool such as money

to allocate resources has been rendered unnecessary. Technologies such as replicators and unlimited sources of energy means anybody can have anything they want. Therefore, people work to secure for themselves pride in achievement.

Individuals in that society have completely different set of motives to work and strive. Gone is the drive to obtain the necessities or any material item in life, for that is guaranteed by the advanced technology. What remains is the desires to achieve personal satisfaction for the shear joy of achievement.

[magellan]

25. Then bring on the technology, I say

But I still think some form of capitalism was alive, at least in Kirk's time. In ST:VI, in one of the bar scenes, there's a viewer in the background running a credit union ad. The gist of it was to save enough credits to own "the house of your dreams" or some such.

[ProfessorGAC]

18. "The Economics Of The Future Are Somewhat Different"

So sayeth Picard. (First Contact)
The Professor

[Wat_Tyler]

19. They run drugs.

Obviously.

[dolo amber]

59. WHY??

I went to post this, but thought 'surely some other smart-ass has already, so I shall check'...

:7

[Robb]

20. It's a micro-economy

...based on the trading of pointed sideburns and shiny boots. :shrug:

[underpants]

21. WHERE ARE THE ENLISTED PERSONNEL?

EVERYONE is an Officer?

I want to see the guys on KP duty.

[Aristus]

24. That's what I always wanted to know! No Enlisted.

Oh, you get the occasional warrant officer or yeoman. But no privates, lance corporals, seamen (spacemen?) or anything. What gives?

[underpants]

26. REally! Who peels the potatoes?

And don't give me that "computer's do it" crap either

[DrWeird]

33. Set phasers to peel.

Data does it. Real fast.

[magellan]

27. Red shirts were enlisted personnel

They hid a lot because they were always getting killed off.

[crispini]

39. LOL.

:cry: poor redshirts....

[mac56]

45. I always felt bad for Ensign Redshirt.

Kirk: We'll take a landing party. Spock, Bones, Chekov, and Ensign Redshirt.

Ensign Redshirt: Aw, crap.

[LeftyMom]

30. O'brien was enlisted

if I recall correctly.

[AllegroRondo]

37. O'Brien was a Warrant Officer

Thats why they called him "chief"

[no name no slogan]

42. D'oh! O'Brien, that's his name (see below) (n/t)

[no name no slogan]

41. The guy that ran the transporter in ST:NextGen was enlisted

The Irish chappie-- unfortunately I don't recall his name, but I believe he was called "Chief", as in "Chief Petty Officer", quite often.

Petty Officers in the Navy are roughly the equivalent of Sergeants in the Army or Air Force. Since Starfleet uses naval ranks (i.e., ensigns, commodores, admirals) instead of Army ranks, you can safely assume that "chief" is an enlisted person.

Oooops, failed the geek check, didn't I? :dunce:

[trogdor]

48. No marines, either.

You gotta have the Starfleet Marine Corps. Lots of Bajorans in the SFMC. Semper Fi.

[trogdor]

50. Actually, they did have a generic rank called "crewman."

In the original series they wore these things that looked like hospital scrubs. Not a very functional uniform, but you never saw one of these people beam down with Kirk, Spock, and Bones.

[Book Lover]

34. "Lower Decks"

Final season Next-Gen episode focuses on the enlisted personnel.

[sympa]

28. just my um.... 2 cents

I'm not a certified trekkie so i don't know all of the specs or details however...since it's the lounge and all, i'd like to throw in my 2 cents

star trek is what happens when humanity gets its act together. with the 3rd world war and (i think it was) 1 billion people dead from it, people woke up. they realized what they were doing to each other and realized that they could not survive nor succeed by tearing each other apart.

and so there was massive change in the human mentality.

priorities shifted from tearing eachother apart to building eachother up...they eliminated most diseases, hunger, poverty and war (i think it took them 50 years to do this)
in other words, they got rid of the oppressed class. they got rid of the oppressor class.
money was no longer necessary, as the technology had been created to produce nearly anything people could need. the focus went from success achieved through material gains (and capital gains) to success defined as a very well educated, intellectually curious and persistently introspective being.

it helped too that when the vulcans came, man realized that he wasn't so unique after all. the awareness of the existence of other beings was humbling, the claim of being in the center of the creator's universe debunked.

the reason i love star trek so much is that i believe it is within us (as a species) to do better than we are doing. i'm not talking about political toils...
once we realize that we are only worth how we treat the least among us...only then will we change.
once we eliminate the power structure (not law or law enforcement or even governing bodies but institutions that promote power abuse, such as the client-state global economy we're enslaving much of the world with) then we can begin to cleanse ourselves of what has been and continues to be our ultimate burden.
:hi:

:end soapbox

[magellan]

40. Sympa, you've described it well

Gene Roddenberry didn't just throw the concept for Star Trek together one bright afternoon. It was something he worked on for years. Star Trek represented all his hopes for the future of mankind, which rested on his unshakeable belief in our ultimate goodness.

"What we humans are is really a remarkable thing. How can you doubt that we will survive and mature? There may be a lot of wisdom in the old statement about looking on the world lovingly. If we can, perhaps the world will have time to resolve itself."
-- Gene Roddenberry

[MrsCheaplaugh]

29. I Believe

that by Star Trek's time, earth will be the galaxy's only source of the hemp plant. It will be in great demand by other planets as a source of biofuel, textiles, building material, and medicine. Growers of hemp on earth will be able to name their price. This is assuming that 400 years from now humans won't be as stupid.

[Rabrrrrrr]

31. Thanks everyone!

There's been some great discussion and ideas in here.

One of the last posts (wish I could remember the name as I am typing this, but I can't) talked about "it's what humanity can do when it gets its act together".

What a beautiful thought.

And made me think that, gosh, with the 50% of our budget that gets wasted on the military - how quickly could we have a Star Trek-like world? 25 years? I bet that's about all it would take to get all the technolgoy (maybe not spaceships, but at least medical and computer and energy manipulation).

Sigh.

Maybe the geniu sof Roddenberry is that he didn't say how the economy worked; and didn't really say much about how the society of Star Trek was created. He dangled it in front of it as a dream, a hope, a better vision of tomorrow, perhaps with the sole intent of forcing us to say to ourselves, "How did that happen?" and inspire us to try to solve the problem for real.

[Huckebein the Raven]

32. Can someone explain gold pressed latnum to me ?

[Rabrrrrrr]

35. latinum

someone up above posted a link, and that page has a brief description of what gold pressed latinum is. How canonical the definition is, though, I don't know.

[cheezus]

36. They have nearly limitless, almost free engery

plus they can turn energy into matter

after that, it all falls into place

[Rabrrrrrr]

47. But the energy deal begs this question: who works at the energy plants?

And how much do they get paid? And are their lives happy working there?

Or is it that, perhaps, there are no plebes at the energy plants - they're all engineers and computerized systems and automation.

Maybe they don't need anyone running around changing light bulbs, or sweeping, or wiping the oil off stuff.

[cheezus]

58. yep, the computer can manage all of that

of course, there's still the geordi/o'brien types who LOVE doing that kind of stuff. And when all of the basic needs out of the way, people can do what they love and everything gets done

(hey, it's a future utopia)

[htuttle]

44. If there's no money, what are you supposed to tip the Dabo girls with?

I think there is money, but you don't need it if you are Federation personnel. Almost everyone on TNG works for Star Fleet. On DS9, you get to see more of the economy outside Star Fleet.

At least that's how I've always figured it.

[LeftyMom]

46. I was under the impression

that the Federation no longer used money but that other races did. Since DS9 is outside Federation space (they're basicly doing the Bajorans a favor by running it, although they derive some strategic gain from doing so once the wormhole is discovered and especially during the Dominion war) the staff there get a wage since they live outside the Federation's managed economy and need gold pressed latinum or some other medium of exchange to pay for Dabo, visits to Garak's shop, trips to Bajor and such.

Wow, I'm a geek. :)

[Gothic Sponge]

52. From replicators

[LeftyMom]

55. They can't replicate Gold Pressed Latinum

That's why it's used as a medium of exchange. Mentioned in some early DS9 episode, by Quark I think. Definitely in his bar.

[Gothic Sponge]

57. Don't listen to Quark, he can't be trusted!

I only listen to Morn, but he will talk your ear off.

;)

[RevCheesehead]

53. Silly Rabbit! Only Ferengis want and use money!

"gold-pressed latinum" for the Republicans of the future.

[Zuni]

60. and how often do they need to be resupplied?

when do the crew get paid?