Anybody have that state-by-state IQ/presidential vote dependency table?

[Goldmund]

Thanks!

[CBGLuthier]

1. you mean the hoax one

You want the hoax one that shows about a 30 point deviation.

Or do you want accurate IQ tables that show that across the country there is no more than a 10 point deviation?

[Goldmund]

2. The accurate one, preferably

[RivetJoint]

3. There wasn't one

It's a hoax.

[CBGLuthier]

4. OK

Here is some info about the hoax

http://www.snopes.com/politics/ballot/stateiq.asp



Harder to find the real info but here is one stab at it, based on SAT scores.

http://sq.4mg.com/stateIQ-income.htm

[Goldmund]

5. Thank you

There is still a clear correlation with political affiliation, which I'm sure would be much more apparent if the analysis was made on a county-by-county level.

[RivetJoint]

6. What correlation?

[Goldmund]

8. Oops, see reply #7

[Goldmund]

9. And also, see this, weighted for population:

http://sq.4mg.com/weighting.htm

[Goldmund]

7. The top four states are all blue, 12 out of the bottom 13 are red

I don't have time to figure out the average IQs or red vs. blue.

Edit: Meant in reply to #6.

[RivetJoint]

10. Those have nothing to do with each other

To get meaningful data, you'd have to have the IQs of ALL the Kerry voters and all the Bush voters...and that would only give you the avg IQ for the voters. This red/blue thing doesn't wash.

[Goldmund]

12. Of course it washes

What you're talking about would increase the resolution and the accuracy of the sample. But if, say, Kerry voters tend to have higher IQs, a sample with more Kerry voters will also tend to have a higher average IQ. It's more inductive than deductive (yes, you can always say that it's analogous to the "Bill Gates at the soup kitchen" problem -- their "average income" is like 7 figures), but statistically valid.

[RivetJoint]

13. There is no data to SUPPORT that Kerry

voters have higher OR lower IQs. You can't compare some bogus red/blue state crap and derive that.

[Goldmund]

15. Well, you said that already

now explain why -- I gave you the reason I think that red/blue state is a strong indicator. By its very definition, a blue state has more Kerry voters, and a red state more Bush voters.

[RivetJoint]

18. OK here's how

If you use SAT scores, the states with a larger populations of Black students are gonna have LOWER SAT averages (much of the deep south). 89% of Blacks voted for Kerry. See the problem?

[Goldmund]

20. Fair enough

Except, the problem with that is that black people in the South voted to a much lesser degree than the black people in the North; the author of the article says that the reason that the southern states have lower average IQs is because of a large black population, and yet, every single southern state went red. In other words, the 89% of black VOTERS who voted for Kerry are probably not the ones who measure lower IQs (and let's get this straight -- they aren't "stupider", it's a consequence of the fact that IQ is hardly a measure of intelligence alone, but rather a measure of applicability of your intelligence to conventional modern education).

[RivetJoint]

22. Just because they did not vote doesn't mean

their SAT scores were not used in the state IQ "determination." The two are independent.

[XNASA]

11. The data might not be 100% accurate, I'll agree.......

But you indicate that one site with better data is the http://sq.4mg.com/stateIQ-income.htm site. And on that site they state that: "The most likely reason for the lower IQ’s in southern states is the high proportion of Blacks in those states."

WTF is that supposed to mean?? In the first place, it's got nothing to do with race, and everything to do with education.

States with better educated citizens vote Dem, generally. :shrug:

[Goldmund]

14. What I think it means...

...is that they have not devised valid means to measure IQ -- which ideally should be independent of culture, education, or means of expression.

[RivetJoint]

16. Because they use SAT scores

Blacks, for whatever reason, score much lower than whites and Asians (AVERAGE)on the SAT.

[XNASA]

17. So the claim is that..............

There are enough Blacks to tip the SAT average in Southern or Retro or Red states, but not enough to swing the vote?

:shrug:

[RivetJoint]

19. Look at how close the votes are

Look at the voter turnout....too many variables (by using SAT scores to gage IQ) to say that Red States or Blue States have higher IQs...

[Goldmund]

21. Does anybody have the data on black voter turnout in the South...

...vs. the North?

Statistically, it seems you'd have to conclude that many more blacks turned out in the North than in the South. I don't think there's another statistical possibility.