Boy, 14, Charged With 2 Rapes Of Other Boys - Charged As An Adult

[matcom]

<snip>

A 14-year-old Anaheim boy will be tried as an adult on charges of raping two boys at knifepoint near their school, prosecutors said Monday.

Jose Ignacio Avina is the youngest person in the county ever charged as an adult with sexual assault, officials said. The teenager was charged Friday with assaulting the two boys, ages 12 and 14, each six weeks apart, near Ball Junior High School in Anaheim.

"Kidnapping for rape, use of a weapon to forcibly sexually assault somebody, having multiple sexual assault victims … all those things warrant charging him as an adult," said Deputy Dist. Atty. Kal Kaliban.

Avina is set to be arraigned Dec. 10 at North Justice Center in Fullerton. He faces life in prison if convicted on all 12 counts.

He is being held in lieu of $1 million bail at Juvenile Hall. His attorney could not be reached for comment, and his family members could not be reached late Monday.

Prosecutors believe that four times, from Oct. 4 to Nov. 15, Avina approached boys at Ball Road and Euclid Avenue, near the school, and demanded money while threatening them with a knife. In two cases, prosecutors say, he also raped his victims.

The first incident allegedly took place after school Oct. 4, when prosecutors believe Avina forcibly sodomized the 14-year-old boy.

On Oct. 27, they say, Avina kidnapped and robbed, but did not rape, a 12-year-old boy before school.

Then, on Nov. 15, Avina allegedly kidnapped, forcibly sodomized and orally copulated another 12-year-old boy before school. Within an hour, police said, he failed in an attempt to rob a fourth boy, also 12.

http://www.latimes.com/news/custom/showcase/la-me-ocrape23nov23.story

[NashVegas]

1. That's One Sad, Fucked Up Kid

I hope the kids he turned around and passed it on to have good counseling and supportive families.

[GOPisEvil]

2. Holy shit!!!!!

He's doing that at 14?!?!? Wow...wow....

[Southpaw Bookworm]

7. 14 is nothing

A good friend of mine was raped in a janitorial closet at school by 8-year-olds using a broomstick.

Edited to note that both the offenders and the victims in this case got "help", and the victim moved to a different school so that she wouldn't have to pass by the room and relive it every day.

[GOPisEvil]

12. Wow.

Just amazing. My life in school was certainly no picnic, but I wasn't raped.

[TrogL]

15. I came close

I'm Norwegian - there's some berserker in my blood. Comes in handy occasionally.

[sui generis]

3. that's utterly ridiculous

"life in prison", "tried as an adult".

Wake up you stupid morons in California! There is a reason we have a juvenile system - that child has serious problems but putting him behind bars for the rest of his life at 14 is so completely absurd it boggles the mind.

What the fuck kind of country do we live in? it's profoundly shameful.

I am all for Shakespeare's solution to lawyers, especially prosecutors.

[StopThief]

9. The kid is an animal.

What he needs is to be thrown in with the general population immediately.

[sui generis]

13. bullshit

his parents need to be neutered AND thrown in with the general population.

That child does not need to be in with the general population. He's a mess and may not be fixable, but he IS 14, and we have a juvenile system - that's what it's for.

[sniffa]

10. i bLame the LiberaLs in this country

[Zuni]

26. I am with you and Alan Keyes

Liberals create moral degenerecy through their 'homosexualism'.

[RivetJoint]

16. Ok, I agree partially with you

But he should be punished , agree?

[sui generis]

18. of course - he has to learn there are consequences

and he should be in there for a while - but most juvenile systems also have far more extensive rehabilitative programs, with the point being that they address his developmental deficiencies and try to overcome his disadvantages and prepare him to get back into life and to be a productive adult.

If he's still screwing up in juvie, THEN he can end up in the big house, and it's warranted.

[RivetJoint]

30. What disadvantages?

[Zuni]

17. Do you want to put this kid somewhere where he can do this again?

I'm sorry, this kid is on the road to be a serial rapist/killer. Anyone with that level of sexual aggression at age 14 is most likely unrehabitable.
Putting him in the Juvenile justice system would allow him to a) prey on troubled kids there b) get out at 18 or 21 more of a sociopath than he was before.
I personally do not think this kid has any hope of being rehabbed. He is already a sexual predator, and will only get worse.

[sui generis]

21. you see, that's why we have a justice system

it's to help address facts, not prejudicial opinions.

I really don't want to come across as defending him by any means, but you are flat out wrong. What you are essentially saying is that

1. juvenile detention with lockdown doesn't work and isn't safe (not true)
2. it's okay to send him to regular prison, where he will certainly be a victim himself.

By the way, he IS a troubled kid in case it's not obvious. We don't go with "hoping" for rehab. We try it for real and if it doesn't seem like it's working, THEN we take more extreme measures.

[Zuni]

24. I agree with you in theory

though from all I have read about criminal and abnormal pyschology I really think this kid is a lost cause.
This is not your average troubled teen. If he had just robbed kids with a knife, that would be different. But the extreme sexual aggression, the fact he got so turned on robbing at knifepoint makes me think he has a serious disorder in which violence/sex are equated in his mind. That is the one common feature among serial predators, and I do not know of one serial predator that is rehabitable.
But at 14, he is still somewhat malleable.

[slackmaster]

4. matcom - is this really Lounge material?

It seems to me the issue belongs in http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=224 since there will be great discussion about the ethics of charging and punishing a 14-year-old as an adult.

[UdoKier]

41. DEFINITELY not Lounge material.

blech.

[CornField]

5. Sadly -- he learned this behavior somewhere

In other words, someone has forcibly raped him.

[StopThief]

11. Maybe, maybe not.

Maybe he is simply a sick f**k.

[sniffa]

6. "did you ever have your sheet pushed in"

pushed in!!!

[Cerridwen]

8. I was assigned as an IT tech to a state divison which

included a "hospital" to house troubled youths.

The "sex offenders" were all under 18 year old boys. I think the youngest was 11 or 12. Many of them had sexually molested or abused younger siblings, sometimes infants. All of them had been molested themselves when they were even younger.

[sui generis]

14. that's the point -

they are not treated as adults. An average 14 year old may be able to distinguish right from wrong, but not a 14 year old who has not learned right from wrong. It's clearly a parenting issue - they need to be equally accountable.

Also, teens are literally crazy. Their bodies are growing, their brains are undergoing morphological changes, the fact that they can function at all in society is somewhat of a miracle.

That child actually has a decent chance at intervention at 14, and it's more disturbing to arbitrarily override the protections of the juvenile system just because some greenhorn prick of a prosecutor wants to make a name for him or herself at any cost.

Asshats who think a 14 year old should go to an adult prison for the rest of his life need to go back to freeperland or wherever the hell they spawned from.

[Cerridwen]

19. Actually, I wasn't making any point other than I'm aware of

this occuring with younger and younger children and that many of them are acting out what they've learned from some adult in their life.

[sui generis]

22. sorry - the vulgar comment wasn't aimed at you!

:hi:

[Cerridwen]

46. Whew. Thanks. Wasn't sure whether to punch back or duck!

:hi:

[Zuni]

20. This is not your ordinary teenage criminal

This is an extremely violent sexual predator in the earliest stages. Many serial killers were molested, but that does not mean we should let them back on the streets.
This kid is a violent sex criminal who most likely will only get worse, no matter what kind of intervention is done.

[sui generis]

23. yes the kid needs careful oversight

but if there is a chance that those behaviors can be corrected, then it's our obligation to try to fix what's broken, and then make a judgement, and we can do that with the same degree of control over his freedom as an adult prison.

Juvenile detention has just as many variations and security levels as regular prison.

The point is that it is a system explicitly for children who everybody else has given up on. To circumvent that system is absurd. We may as well just abolish the entire juvenile justice system.

You know, kids who are chronic shoplifters will grow up to be thieves, almost certainly. We should just fast forward and put them in for life too.

[Zuni]

25. I agree as long as he is seperated from the general population

I would really hate for any troubled children to be turned into violent sociopaths or killed because the system didn't take a 14 year old rapist seriously.
Any child showing this level of sexual aggression is literally right on the edge of the cliff, and may have already fallen over.

[buckettgirl]

40. I have no problem

giving up on a child who rapes other children. There is NEVER justification for rape (when sometimes there is for murder). The punishment cannot be strong enough.
And your analogy to shoplifting: that is NOT the same as rape! Not even close. I agree that with these violent sex acts and his age, there is no chance for rehabilitation. I wouldn't want him in juvi either because there will be more children for him to RAPE there!

[VelmaD]

42. Sorry but I have to disagree...

and I think I probably have more experience with this issue than you do. As mentioned earlier I work in the Texas juvenile prison system. Some sex offenders can be rehabilitated but you don't really know which ones therapy will help until you try. And it's much more likely for therapy to help teens than it is adult sex offenders becase with teens their personality and coping mechanisms are still malleable. If this kid getes into serious treatment NOW there's still a chance he can learn empathy for others. If you just throw him into the adult system he will never learn it and he will only become more and more of a predator.

[buckettgirl]

45. I want to know

how would ALL of you feel if it were YOUR children that had been raped?? Seriously!
If I were a parent to those raped children, I'm sure that I would be out for blood; even though I should know better than that.
revenge solves nothing.

And that's fine for you to disagree; and yes you do have more experience dealing with these children than I do. But I still believe that rape is an adult crime. Yes, he should get therapy to help him deal with all of it, but I don't think his consequences should be changed one bit.

[VelmaD]

50. So what would you do with the 8 year olds...

someone mentioned above who raped a classmate with a broom handle? Gonna put them in adult prison too?

Remember, the odds are that the rapist in this case was a victim of sexual assault himself and you want to put him in the adult prison system so he can spend the rest of his life being abused some more. That's what happens to younger, smaller inmates.

This young man is 14. He is not an adult no matter what crime he commits. The reason we have a juvenile prison system is because teenagers are different developmentally from adults. Going to "juvee" is not a walk in the park. It's actually much harder than going to adult prison, at least in Texas it is. In the adult prisons they just put you in there and you serve your sentence and then you get out. In the juvenile system in Texas you have to move through the Resocialization program and they don't let you out until you prove you have mastered things like victim empathy and anger management. They basically break the kids down and then build them back up to be functioning members of society. It's a hard process...much harder than just sitting in a cell doing nothing for a couple of years.

BTW, your emotional reaction to "what if it was my kid" is normal. Most people would feel that way if it was their kid. And that's why we don't let the victims or their families determine what happens to criminals but leave it to more impartial judges and juries instead.

[Zuni]

52. excellent post

you made an excellent argument there.

[Zuni]

51. I agree---he has a better chance in therapy than in an adult prison

But I still do not want him around other kids.

I doubt he is fixable, sounds like he is already FAR gone. I was saying I do not want him anywhere he could hurt someone else.

You have an excellent point---adult prison is about the worst place in the world but I think this kid has to be seperated from the general population in Juvie. It is too dangerous for other kids and too dangerous for him---he could get killed trying this on some of the kids in a juvenile prison.

[VelmaD]

53. What he needs is to be in a specialized program...

for sex offenders. Those programs usually have single-occupant cells - no roommate to be hurt or be hurt by. And they usually have a higher number of staff to youth so there's closer supervision to make sure nothing bad goes on. Plus this kid needs to spend a lot of time working on what motivated him to rape and figuring out ways to cope with those triggers so he doesn't do it again.

[buckettgirl]

39. I second that! n/t

[One_Life_To_Give]

27. Not that he should be treated as a adult

I suspect what bothers people the most about treating this kid as a juvenile is what happens at age 18/21? We kick him free and wipe his record, regardless of rehab success?

If he is tried as an adult, can he be placed in a juvenile facility? Is the mandatory minimum sentence for an adult life?

If this kid is convicted as an adult instead of a juvenile. What must the court do differently other than, not purge his file at age 18/21 and set him free at age 18/21?

[sui generis]

29. it's not that simple

if he screws up while he's in there he can go to the Big House.

On the other hand even if he is absolutely perfect in there, passes his psych profiles, etc., he would still face some kind of probationary oversight after coming out as an adult sex offender, given that it is a sex crime. I'm sure it varies from state to state, but it is highly unlikely that any state would just eject them at 18 with no further involvement as a matter of public safety.

[VelmaD]

31. I work in the Juvenile prison system in Texas...

so I can speak to some of this...at least to how we do it here. In Texas he could be tried as a juvenile and given a "determinate sentence". What that means is that when he reaches 21 he goes back before the judge and the judge decides whether he gets out on probation or goes into the adult prison system.

Texas judges can also require that juveniles successfully complete Sex Offender treatment prior to being released from the juvenile prison system.

The thing is if he's tried as an adult he goes straight to the adult prison system, and in most states that means he'll never get any treatment. If he's tried as a juvenile he's more likely to get treatment and if he doesn't respond he can still be put into the adult prison system at a later date.

Also consider that most juvenile facilities have a much lower inmate-to-staff ratio...meaning there's less likelihood of this kid hurting someone else or getting hurt in a juvenile facility than in adult prison.

[One_Life_To_Give]

36. Thanks for the explanation

Thanks VelmaD

I wonder how many people actually realize what the difference is? I did not realize a "determinate sentence" existed, perhaps others are ignorant as well.

[sui generis]

55. a voice of sanity here

thanks - kind of scary some of the other opinions on here from "fellow liberals".

The whole thing is a mess - and terrible for the victims, but an enlightened society has to step up and try to rehabilitate its criminals especially if they're young enough to possibly make a difference.

[DS1]

28. Fox - meet Henhouse

Shit, he's practicing for the slammer

[Placebo]

32. Damn. He Should have just bought them dinner first.

Then he could have gotten some willing sodomy lovin'

[DemocratSinceBirth]

34. maybe he wanted to catch him on an empty stomach

lol

[Placebo]

35. Oy.

lol

[Champ]

33. Damn, never heard anything like it

[ZoCrowes]

37. What a fucked up little bastard

He needs to get some SERIOUS help.

I hope the victims get the help they need too.

[buckettgirl]

38. Isn't it ironic

I'm surprised people aren't in here saying "what bastards, they have no right to charge him as an adult"

edit: oh, well - they are, I just didn't read enough posts!

In the other thread about the 14 yr old boy getting tasered (sp?), everyone but a few were like "whats the world coming to, what about his rights, the next step will be shooting him"
So, stick to your guns and be consistent with your thinking... SHHHEESSHHH
I think this kid deserves to be tried as an adult and I changed my mind about the other kid in the other thread: he deserved to be tased. He was fighting with the police and he should have been taught better behavior from his parents.
I believe in the juvenile justice system and I don't believe in incarcerating children, but at some point people have to look at others rights too! Children shouldn't get a free ride BECAUSE they are children. They should be disciplined appropriately. In this case, the punishment can't be strong enough!

[Throckmorton]

43. Mighty broad brush your wielding there.

"So, stick to your guns and be consistent with your thinking... SHHHEESSHHH"

So, somehow all Duer's are magically connected. People on another DU thread were upset because a 14 year old got Tazed, and somehow the people on this thread are inconsistent because they feel a knife wielding child rapist needs to be detained?

I'm sorry we all don't think with a collective mind.

[THUNDER HANDS]

44. i think that kid was younger than 14

wasn't he like, 6 or something?

Besides, all that kid did was cut himself. This kid RAPED (2) boys. So, obviously he's a predator.

Big difference.

[buckettgirl]

48. The kid in the other thread

is 14 and took his gameboy to school. He got tased when he refused to turn it over and begin punching/kicking/fighting with the cop.

You have to have some kind of consistent thinking here....
either all children get disciplined appropriately or they get away with it all...
That is my only point.

[THUNDER HANDS]

54. oh ok, wrong tased kid

there WAS another kid who got tasered after he broke a picture frame or something and cut himself in the principal's office.

[Champ]

47. Rape is terrible

I actually have NO respect for rapists, less respect then I do for people who have even murdered someone in the heat of the moment, those who carefully plan them out or go on serial killing sprees are not the ones I'm talking about. Being raped is an experience that sticks with a person forever and I'm sure they do not feel good afterwards, something no one should have to experience. Rapists are the only ones that deserve to be raped just so they have that same experience and feeling that sticks with them so they realize EXACTLY how their victim(s) feel. This kid has done it more then once, it doesn't look like he was going to stop and three years in Juve probaly won't deter him either. I honestly don't care what they do to him, as long as he isn't roaming the open world with the opportunity to strike again.

on edit: As I was typing this I lost track of my general point, comparing this to police tazering a minor who was playing a gameboy is COMPLETELY different, not even close.

[warrens]

49. Wait, how were his two victims dressed?

For all we know, they were just ASKING for it.