Obedience to Authority, by Dr. Stanley Milgram

[realisticphish]

I jsut finished this book, which my psych professor loaned to me, and it is fascinating. It's about those experiments, where it was tested how long a subject would obey commands to shock a "victim" (actually an actor) when the victim kept screaming for them to stop, etc. I highly recomend it; it's well written, and shows how people can do some terrible things (the Holocaust, My Lai, etc) when an authority tells them to do so. Kind of frightening, when you compare some of the conclusions Milgram comes to with the way freepers have been indocrinated to trust the government, view Middle Easterners as "ragheads", and so on


:hippie: The Incorrigible Democrat

[Saffy]

1. Yes...as a Psych major

I've studied Milgram's tests quite a bit. Disturbing, to say the least. There was also an experiment called the Stanford Prison Experiment that yielded eerily similar results even though the participants KNEW it was just an experiment!

http://www.prisonexp.org

"Our planned two-week investigation into the psychology of prison life had to be ended prematurely after only six days because of what the situation was doing to the college students who participated. In only a few days, our guards became sadistic and our prisoners became depressed and showed signs of extreme stress."

Saffy

P.S. I found a great quote on this subject:
"Deferring to authority is nothing more than a cowardly shirking of personal responsibility.
The more power you grant an authority figure, the worse you can behave in his/her name."- Brad Warner

[realisticphish]

4. psych major here as well

and ill have to check out that website; ive read about those experiments, but havent really looked into it much

:hippie: The Incorrigible Democrat

[serryjw]

5. Abu Ghraib prison

POWER is intoxicating...especially if you have always been in the position of BEING THE VICTIM!

[serryjw]

2. I saw this on TV......

Don't remember what show....MOST people WILL obey commands. MOST people will not question authority...MOST people BELIEVE what they are told......remember election 2004?

On was on a single website.one of the question on the profiles was waht was the last book did you read? (I'm 54..and the profile was of a man my age) and his response was UNFIT FOR COMMAND..he believed everything in the book about JK???

[Droopy]

3. I knew psych professors were good for something

They wouldn't get me in that experiment. "The Authority Song" is my favorite tune by John Mellancamp and I've cussed out a cop on more than one occasion. On top of that I have a huge conscience. That's a recipe for doing the right thing even when authority tells you different.

[realisticphish]

6. the fascinating thing is

that about 60% went all the way to the maximum voltage levels, and another 30% got almost there. And these people were not sadistic or anything, this was repeated in many cities, in many countries, and the results were almost always the same. Also no difference between gender or social/economic standing


:hippie: The Incorrigible Democrat

[TaleWgnDg]

7. So now you know why there are so many . . .

Roman Catholic parochial school alums and bible belt alums as "volunteers" in our military?! Yes, both are taught never to question authority. Scary, huh?

[NashVegas]

12. Speaking for the Catholic School Refugees ...

My experiences have taught me to question authority on every level.

[CornFused]

8. Greeting

I would like to add IAT in to the mix of interesting psy studies.

https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/demo/

The test is often misused as "racist/sexist" test. Please be sure to read what the test is about, and what it is supposed measure, and what the result means. A wonderful thought provoking thread. I wish more Americans knew about obedience studies and Stanford’s prison studies.

[freeplessinseattle]

9. please let's remember that the key word is "most" not "all"

and if it makes a diff for my own credibility, my undergrad was in psych, and as a counseling student I have to believe in the innate goodness of people, or most at least, or what is the point? the key is to find what makes the abusers different from the non-abusers? and how can we cultivate those traits in others?


*a great book that is a classic undergrad soc text is "The Social Animal" by Elliot Aronson.

[realisticphish]

13. but the thing is

that the point of the experiment is NOT what makes people inherently good/bad. all but a very few of the people were VERY upset by what was happening, yet only a few resisted. I too believe in the inherent goodness of people; but this experiment only pertains to the fact that the people hated doing it, yet DID IT ANYWAY. THAT is the important conclusion, and what the book focuses on.


:hippie: THe Incorrigible Democrat

[Breeze54]

10. Psych High School 101..lol!

Hey, I saw that on a documentary show (Frontline?) and the people giving the pain just kept getting worse and worse?? Is that the idea??

And they compared it to Abu Grave (sp?) prison in Iraq and the over the top torture.....

It was revealing!!
People are morons was the conclusion, right??
lol!

Yeah..in high school we did an experiment in downtown Boston and we had a guy pretend to have a broken leg and then another guy dressed like a strung out junkie.
We had the "junkie" knock down the guy with the broken leg and rob him and we waited to see who would help him.
NO ONE DID!!

Go figure human nature.....

[freeplessinseattle]

11. yep, the more witnesses/bystanders, the less likely people are to help

oddly enough, due to the "dispersment" effect, everyone assumes someone else will act, and they also take their cue from others, if no one else is doing anything, people tend to figure that maybe nothing needs to be done or else someone else would do something, right? of course, this is not representative of everyone, just most, so let's not let these negative expectations become self-fulfilling prophecies!

again, this is also detailed in Aronson's book, actually a fascinating read for a college text.