Parents: Is it really possible to dislike your own child?

[Red State Rebel]

My 24 year old daughter is turning out to be a mess. She has ignored every piece of good advice given her, crapped on every opportunity given her and has abused our relationship to the point that I can hardly stand to talk to her or see her.

For most of her youth, it was just the two of us as her father and I divorced when she was 1 year old. I remarried when she was 11 and she has had siblings (I don't use the word step) and a father since then. (Her own father pretty much ignored her).

She had problems starting in middle school and I got her counseling - it seemed to help, but in high school she was resentful that I was a coach in an activity she was in and it has gotten worse from there. When she graduated, we sent her to college about 2 hours away. Instead of taking advantage of what a lot of kids would give anything for, she blew it - I found out her boyfriend was either down there with her or she had left school and was staying with him most of the time. She left after the first semester. She got married too young - 19 - and divorced 2 years later. Dated a psycho for 3 years and finally left him only to go immediately to live with another guy she had met.

She has tried various careers, never holds a job more than a few months and finally got herself into nursing school this fall.

I found out in September she was using a copy of my bank card to take money from my account to the tune of almost $1,000 in one month. I told her to stop it so the next time she was at the house she stole a book of checks and started writing them. By the time I realized it she had checks bouncing all over the place. Between the checks, bank charges and bad check charges, it has cost me over $2,000.00 in October/November.

When I called her former employer about some of the checks she had written there, he informed me that they were about to arrest her because she had stolen some money orders from their store. He gave her until 11/26 to repay it. This weekend she tells me she has the money and is giving it to them. Monday calls and she says she is short $250.00 and if she doesn't have it they will arrest her. Like a fool I gave it to her last night because if she has a record she will not be able to get a job. After I gave her the check, she got mad at something I said and proceeded to tell me off and leave.

She has turned into a hick - she has 4 tatoos now, not nice discreet pretty ones, but gaudy ugly ones, probably because she knows I hate them.

It is to the point that I don't even want her to come to family events because of her behaviour. I have begged her to get some help and she is supposed to be seeing someone in January, but in the mean time, I just can't deal with her anymore. She has tested the limits of unconditional love - something I never thought was possible.

Part of me wants to cut her off until she gets herself straightened out - but I feel so guilty. Aren't moms supposed to always love their kids?

If you've managed to read all of this and have any advice, please post.

[trotsky]

1. "Part of me wants to cut her off until she gets herself straightened out"

Listen to that part. It's right. You are an enabler, and you are only helping to perpetuate her problems right now.

On edit: My children are still very young, so I don't have direct experience with this as a parent (yet - and hopefully never!) but I watched my parents go through this with my younger brother. They bought him groceries, gave him a lot of money, etc. while he was supposedly going to college. Turned out he had dropped out and was using a credit card my dad gave him to go to a casino and gamble. His punishment when they found out? They allowed him to move back home, getting free rent, food, utilities, etc. while going out and partying as much as he wanted. He didn't have an awakening until he got a married woman pregnant! But of course that was a problem that mommy and daddy COULDN'T fix, so it was a new experience for him.

[amandae]

12. I agree with trotsky

and the others about enabling her. I know it sounds harsh, but maybe jail time would do her some good. She is doing so many things that are illegal ... including stealing from you. Maybe jail would finally provide her with a deterrent from these activities in the future. Another suggestion for somewhere down the road would be family counseling.

Luckily this is one area where hubby and I agree about child-rearing (although I'll admit that my children are 7 and under right now). If one of them is doing something illegal and is arrested/threatened with jail time, jail is where they'll sit until they can get themselves out of it. Obviously I'll help them if it's a situation where they're innocent/arrested for protest, etc. I'll help them out. But if they're doing something blatantly illegal (like theft, drunk driving, etc.), I'll let them sit it out in jail. If they're under 18, heaven help them. The shit will be on when they get home. I just agree with my friend's mother (who had 6 kids) ... I'm not going into debt to fund the stupidity of one of my children. Especially at the expense of what I could be giving the rest of my children. My friend's mom told all of her children that if they're arrested they're on their own. They knew she meant it and it was a pretty good deterrent. I don't know if it will work or not, but I'll be using it as a detterent with my own kids, too.

[motely36]

2. I wish I had some advice

All I can say is hang in there.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

3. I don't know how much advice I have

but it sounds like time for some serious tough love. No enabling. She's 24, allow her to fall on her face a few times and she'll go "Um, ouch that really HURTS."

And don't worry, I have a theory that even the most messed up of young adults eventually get straightened up enough to lead a halfway normal life. My brother was a freaking MESS until he turned 29 and he still isn't doing terrific, but he's worlds away from where he was (using drugs, stealing things, losing jobs, getting in trouble with the law, etc).

Now he's married, a homeowner, a new dad and has had the same job for three whole years!

There's hope....but I believe in tough love.

[7th_Sephiroth]

4. make sure she gets help

but try to stay away from the overly religious places, thats how they recruit sheep to fleece

[fertilizeonarbusto]

5. I can tell you what my mom did with my sister

GET TOUGH. No more enabling. One more thing: stay watchful. Young, troubled people like your daughter are a Fundy's wet dream.

[htuttle]

6. Let her go to jail for awhile and cut off her money

I might help, it might not. It WILL give you some quiet time to rest up and think about the situation. Take it from the father of a twenty-something alcoholic. You can support your kids without supporting their mistakes.

[demnan]

7. If she stole from you

You should cut her off. She doesn't appreciate anything you're trying to do for her anyway. I'm sure it's very difficult but she is abusing you and you must not stand for it.

[RUDUing2]

8. yes it is possible

you don't have to like your children, but IMO you do have to love them.

you don't have to accept their decisions, lifestyles/choices, etc, but you do still have to love them.

I wish I could tell you what to do, but that is something only you can decide.

I would strongly suggest that you get into counseling to help you decide how to deal with your daughter, in a way that is emotionally healthy for both of you. Right now you seem to be enabling her behavior, and that isn't good for her or for you.

good luck.

[Spiffarino]

9. Of course you can dislike her

We don't pick our relatives, and that goes for our children. Sometimes, in spite of our best efforts, they turn out badly.

Just because you dislike her doesn't mean you don't love her. Listen to your smart voice. Cut her off. You can let her know you love her, but you will not stand for her selfish and self-destructive behavior.

You most certainly must not enable her to continue what she's doing. It may take hitting rock-bottom before she'll come around. In fact, she may never come around, but enabling will only postpone her ultimate decision. And that decision is hers and hers alone.

[mindfulNJ]

10. "Like" and " love" are two different things

You DO love her...you care what happens to her and worry about her well-being...THAT'S love. You may not like her as one human being relating to another...that happens unfortunately sometimes between relatives. It sounds to me that she has some growing up to do, and your enabling her irresponsibile ways isn't helping anyone. I know it isn't easy, but you need to cut her off now. Believe me...she will most likely come to her senses. If she doesn't, at least your own life will be sane. Good luck to you.

[pk_du]

11. You CAN give someone unconditional love and still not

like them.

I know several people who love their kids/parents dearly but in many ways cannot stand to be around them. You see it every time some murderer/rapist/molester apepars in court...their parents/kids still love them but hate what they've done and maybe dont even like them as people anymore.

Personally , the stealing crossed a line - sounds like it has with you. I woulod probably have given in the the 250 request too, BUT I would have accompanied her to the store and witnessed the handing over of the money , then thanked the Store-owner. That would have been followed with the long serious talk with junior..."I will always love you...but you need to start getting things on track before you can be a daily part of my life again...starting by setting a date for repaying ME for what was stolen/lent"....take one step at a time from there...small but meaningful goals, with positive reinforcement if met.

Hope things work out for you and her..take care.

[Cyndee_Lou_Who]

13. My heart and thoughts are with you...

even if I have no words of 'wisdom'. I have a 13 year-old that is starting down this path. Literally just finished a sobbing session in the hallway with a co-worker who'd been through similar situation. We are not alone. The lesson that I took away from this is... never bear a child with Satan himself. My child has the genes of Lucifer. I am trying with all of my might to bring out the 'other' side of the genetics. Some days are better than others.

[Bridget Burke]

21. Dump this "genes of Lucifer" crap.

Don't blame the child for your own bad choices. Therapy might help--for both of you.

[Cyndee_Lou_Who]

26. We're in therapy... have been. I am not BLAMING HIM for MY

choices. But, I will not deny the scientific reality that chemical imbalances and emotional dispositions are a factor. And... I am admitting that I did, in fact make a very poor decision when I 'hooked up' with his biological father. That's really my point. If you have children with someone, you need to know the full story of their mental and emotional well-being, or lack thereof. Those things are passed down.

[Jessica]

14. Tough love is sometimes the most compassionate kind ...

... and the most beneficial in the end. I know it's hard - but all moms have to be hardasses at some point - God knows my mom was with me. Like many, I rebelled in high school and although Mom & I didn't get along at the time - we're extremely close now. Looking back, I appreciate the tough love - it worked miracles on me. ;)

Good luck with whatever you choose to do.

[intheflow]

15. It's okay to distance yourself for now.

You don't have to call it "cutting off." She's an adult at 24 and so it's time for her to be fully on her own. She has not acted at all responsibly, and if she gets arrested, well... it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to understand cause and effect of theft, so she shouldn't be surprised if that's what comes down the line and smacks her upside the head.

You asked, "Arent' Moms suppoed to always love their kids?" I'm going to give you the same advice I would give to a battered wife: just because you love someone doesn't mean you have to be theri doormat. You can still love her and not enable her abusive behavior.

Someone above suggested you get her help. As an adult, you can not get her help, she can only help herself. You are not legally responsible for anything that she does or does not do. And as an adult, she cannot expect you to bail her out of every problem she gets herself into--and that includes jail.

If she goes to jail andyou refuse to bail her out, will she hate you? Probably. But probably no more so than she does now. She certainly isn't acting vry lovingly toward you.

So you can let her know that you love her, but she's a grown up now and can't rely on Mommy any more, that you have to distance yourself, that you're not her doormat. She has to take responsibility for her own life. That's what growing up is all about!

[madrchsod]

16. i agree with the others who said-don`t enable and

tough love ..i`ve been thru everything you have described and it finally ended up as a prison sentence and costing us thousands of dollars and many wasted years...but...now it`s a full time job and emt/nursing school. it may take years and it may never happen but never,ever feel quilty!!!! it`s not your fault!!!! it`s hers and she is the one who must realize it and deal with it. you never stop loving her, you just dislike her actions

[sariku]

17. The best thing you can do....

Is STOP enabling her behavior! I see this WAY too often. If she does something illegal, you turn her in. If she does something illegal, she bails herself out. That's how it works for the rest of us, why is she any different? How do you expect her to become responsible if you are enabling her to be irresponsible? Not to mention criminal...

I'm not meaning to be harsh, but Red, you gotta draw the line. The sooner you do it, the better - not only for her and yourself, but for the rest of your family as well. How does this affect your other kids? If they see you continually bailing her out like this, don't you think they'd be resentful?

And by the way, there is a difference between liking and loving someone. I think you love your daughter. At times, you understandably do not like her. We all have our moments of that.

[crispini]

18. I'd have to agree with the posters above

who say that it is time to cut her off.

I have sort of a counter-example that will maybe clarify. My younger brother has also been kind of a mess. Smokin' dope, repeatedly losing jobs, high relationship drama, sleeping around, borrowing money, etc.

BUT, he has always been VERY AWARE of how he is screwing himself over, and he has always been remorseful, showed contrition, and has TRIED to straighten himself out. (He's also never STOLEN from anyone.) Gradually he's been getting more and more responsible, kept a job for a whole year, and is now even in a supervisory position at work. He's been heartbreakingly STUPID, but he's also got the right ATTITUDE, and this is really what your daughter fails to show.

I'd have a come-to-Jesus talk, or send her a letter, firmly explaining the situation, and set strong boundaries. I don't know if "cutting her off" per se is necessary -- but you need to make very clear what your boundaries are.

My mom actually has started cutting my brother off when he wants to tell her about bad stuff over the phone. She says, "Don't tell me... just don't tell me, it's just going to upset me." Because it does. (So he calls ME and vents, ha ha.)

Good luck, I think your heart is in the right place and you obviously DO love her.

[Midlodemocrat]

19. Cut her off.

Having gone through a similar situation with my godchild, whom I was raising, I can tell you from experience, it will only get worse if you don't cut her off. By cutting him off, we were able to regain our sanity, focus on the younger kids and finally he got to a place where he can be proud of himself. It took 2 years, but he finished college, got a master's, a great job, and is now engaged. All the best things that we were hoping would happen that he just wasn't ready for. If you continue to bail her out, she will continue her descent into hell.

[barb162]

20. one thing I would definitely pay for is a full psychiatric evaluation

if she would agree to have one and also agree to let you have the full results. I would then go to a shrink with that report and say okay how do I handle this for my own sanity and well-being first. Because without you being healthy in regard to how you handle the situation and her, she will not get better IMHO

[GreenPartyVoter]

22. You can dislike her, but you still have to love her even when it is hard

to do so.

Just hang in there. Anyone can have an epiphany, including your DD.

*hugs and prayers*

-------------------------------------
Would Jesus love a liberal? You bet!
http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/

[Kber]

23. No advice from a parental perspective

but my parents did have to deal with my brother, who, after getting pulled over for drunk driving many times in PA, and getting off very lightly, finally tried it in a state that actually sends drunk drivers to jail (MI).

And believe me, the decision to NOT pull out all the stops to keep him out of county jail was hell for them. Mom cried every night, but not when she was on the phone to him.

End of story - baby bro served 6 months in county - which was the best possible scenario. He has NEVER driven drunk since. (It's been almost 10 years.) He's a resteraunt manager - hard work, but it's honest and pays the bills. He's in a relationship with a wonderful young woman, and his relationship with mom and dad have never been better, I think because they all deal with each other as adults.

In this case, the "tough love" approach literally helped turn his life around.

[jukes]

24. based only on the facts

that you've described, it's very likely she has a substance-abuse problem. these types of behaviors (fiscal irresponsibility, unreasonable resentments, self-destructive choices) are def symptoms of chemical dependancy, although they can spring from other factors, too. if you have *any* reason to suspect alcohol/drug abuse, see a counselor yourself, *immediately*, to get a clear picture of this disease. do *not* rely on folk wisdom!

if my suspicions are correct, you've been cast in the role of"enabler" & need advice on how to proceed to balance cutting her off w/ intervention leading to rehab. if i'm correct, it's the girl's only hope for survival.

pls note that "CDs" are *very* manipulative and destructive to those surrounding/supporting as well as themselves.

i'll repeat the warning on rehab centers i posted in another thread: (be careful of fundy-ambush in the rehab center though, xian extremists are using rehab, as well as jails, for recruitment purposes. supplanting a substance addiction w/ a jesus addiction only exacerbates the problem.)

pls feel free to PM if you want further, i'm retired fed LE, was a certified abuse counselor, & am an expert witness in substance abuse.

Good luck!, and seriously, save yourselves...

[Phillycat]

25. She sounds like a drunk/drug addict.

Look for signs and get her treatment.

Signed,

A drunk/drug addict (recovering)

[jukes]

27. janesez

i'll back you up on that 1! congratulations on your continuing recovery!

[Phillycat]

28. Thanks!

Are you a friend of Bill's?

[jukes]

30. not a friend

was concerned when i got out of undercover narcotics assignment because usage was very heavy under the excuse of protecting my cover. got cert'd as a counselor, but escaped dependancy, tx yahweh!

don't drink; my amerind blood makes me violent w/ alcohol. can take or leave other sub's, mostly leave. cocaine scares me to death, haven't touched it in decades. too much potential risk.

brushed close, seen many lives destroyed during my coptime. empathize completely.

:pals:

[Cheswick2.0]

29. I agree

signed; the mother/daughter/stepdaughter/grandaughter/sister and ex-wife of many drunk/drug addicts.....some dead, some recovering and some in denial.

[Phillycat]

32. I hope your kid is the one in recovery.

:hug: to you, Ches.

[Cheswick2.0]

33. He's working at it

:hug:
He's not there yet, but he gets better as time goes on and his sober periods are lasting longer.

Thanks for the hug!

[Phillycat]

35. PM me if you ever want to talk.

[Cheswick2.0]

31. I'll bet you spent lots of years making up for your guilt at being a

single parent. I'll bet you have given your daughter this terrible sense of entitlement and I will also bet she could have gone either way but chose this way. So don't feel guilty and don't feel ashamed.

The only thing you can do is love her love her and love her. Let her know how much you love her by being really honest with her about it. Don't hold your approval and love back because a big part of her is a disapointment to you. You are not her and she is her own person.

But that doesn't mean you have to let her abuse you. Cut off her money sorce and let her pay for her own bad behavior. Cut off the conversations when they are irrational and abusive. Just don't cut off the love. Don't reward the bad, but please recognise and reward the good in her. And those rewards should be verbal not material.

PS...don't worry about being a anti-religious paranoic like some of the responses suggest. I too know a few people who have gone the fundamentalist church route and as annoying as their religion can sometimes be, it is certainly preferable to what they were doing before. At least the are working, paying bills, not getting arrested and not hanging out in bars and screwing strangers on a weekly basis. If someone wants to go the religious route that is their choice and their journey.

[warrens]

34. Drugs

All the classic signs.

[OldEurope]

36. I think, it´s okay to dislike your daughter.

I must admit: until I was in my twenties, my mother had every reason to dislike me, too. I was not exactly as mean as your girl seems to be, but I did a lot of things I´m now ashamed of. And the day to grow up was, when I realized, that I could not blame my parents for the circumstances of my childhood. I had to learn that NOBODY BUT ME is responsible for my life.
My advice would be the same as many others posted here:
Let her grow up, the hard way, she needs to go through hard times to find her own way.
Good luck!

[Red State Rebel]

37. Thank you all for your advice and support!

I know it's time for tough love, the guilt is just so hard. I've told her she is on her own and we will not bail her out again. Unfortunately, I'm so upset about this I don't even want to invite her to some of the family holiday things we are doing as she can be so obnoxious if something doesn't go her way.

I hadn't seriously considered drugs, it is an area I'm going to have to think about. Her behaviour hasn't really "changed" as it has gradually escalated over the past few years.

If she is going to change her ways, she is going to have to do it on her own, and prove it to me before I ever trust her again.

Again, thanks Du family! It really helped having someplace to vent and get such great support.

[Left Is Write]

38. I'm sorry you're going through this.

I don't really have any practical advice, but just wanted to let you know I read about your situation and my thoughts are with you - peace and strength to you as you work through this tough time.

[faithnotgreed]

40. prayers for you and your daughter. the closest ive come

to this situation was my sister. at one point she stole the bank card from my mom and withdrew money. she had income at the time, so it was clear she was involved with something. drugs as it turned out

though your daughter has not had to/been able to keep a job so i dont know how shes getting by

best wishes to you both. its hard to realize this but she does need you to be strong with her. my mom wasnt strong with my sister either and kept allowing things to escalate. she didnt want to be "responsible" for my sister going to jail, or not having a place to live. wow i know thats tough. its so hard for so many reasons. we just cant face the choices when those we love act in ways that hurt them and everyone who loves them.
circumstances rarely work out well for anyone when there are no repercussions and no reason to get help. kids do need and want discipline though they sure wont admit it at the time

the best i can say is be strong and firm and let her know you love her. one way is to say "no" - and mean it. but also that youre there for her whenever she is ready to get help. when she is ready for real help (not financial) i bet youre the one she comes to.

let us know and take good care.

[put out]

39. You have gotten some very good advice.

Take mine for what is worth. You may truly love a person, but you are not obliged to like them when they shit on you. Please take care of yourself. From what you have written, she might need you and need you and need you until you have nothing to give. At 24 years old, some people can care for themselves, it turns out.

Your daughter might resist this notion.

You sound nice. I am 44 years old and I have a job. Could I live with you? (sorry, I am trying to raise a teen aged person and I am also making a lame attempt at humor.)

Please do take care. I am sorry this is happening.

Kim