Why is it called "the immaculate conception"?

[Deja Q]

God screwed a chick, I don't see what the big deal is. God can sleep with whomever he wants. Of course, God could also be a woman doctor using invitro-fertilization conception methods that were revolutionary at the time...

Who knows, some religions say God couldn't have bonked anybody because they're still waiting for the Messiah. In that respect they're right, the only being who could whip this world back into a civilized state would be a Deity. :-( Mankind, especially Americankind who effectively own the planet, are too greedy to care.

[Ignis]

1. Immaculate

Because the dove was wrapped in latex.

Sorry, bitter Irish Catholic joke. Move along, nothing to see here.

[dflprincess]

2. Actually,

If I remember my Catechism correcly, the Immaculate Conception does not refer to Jesus' conception. It refers to the belief the Mary was conceived without the "stain of original sin" on her soul" that the rest of us are said to be born with. (I'm just repeating what I heard, I didn't say I buy it)

[flamingyouth]

7. You're absolutely right

Nothing to do with the actual birth of Jesus, per se. (according to Cathecism)

[XanaDUer]

3. If you really want to know...

Mary was born without original sin.

Hope this does not turn into another Catholic-bashing thread. :(

[BlueJazz]

8. I prefer the Crispy Sin....better flavor.

[XanaDUer]

9. Right.

eom.

[BlueJazz]

11. Forgive me...I ate at KFC tonight and ...ummm...well,,,ahh,,

nt

[xray s]

10. And that is one of the things I have never understood

I was born and raised Catholic. I understand the dogma is Mary had to be born without sin so she could give birth to Jesus.

But...wouldn't that mean her mother would have to be born without sin too, in order to give birth to sinless Mary? And so on and so on?

Needless to say, I am not a Catholic today.

[SmileyBoy]

23. And WTF is "Original Sin", anyway????

I don't mean ANY offense to any Catholic DUers, but in Islam, we don't believe that. I can't understand how I could go about thinking newborns are sinning. I just can't understand how a newborn child into this world can be "sinning" when he/she leaves his/her mother's womb. How can a newborn baby sin???

[Lizz612]

35. 2 years at Catholic school...

...so I'm no expert, but the idea is that all humanity is "tainted" after "we"(Adam and Eve) used our free will to do what God expressly forbade (Eating fruit from that tree, tree of knowledge thing may not be the actual words). I think that it is there to try to explain our more "animal" desires, our lust and greed. Those feelings that are in us, but we didn't put them there, something else did. Its not that the baby in question has sinned, but that all humanity has that "original sin" still upon us, making us unholy to God. And baptism takes that sin away, and you "need" it right away so incase the baby dies they go straight to heaven instead of purgatory, which is a whole nother can o worms. At least thats the story I got at Catholic school.

[tabasco]

4. Because Franco miraculously caught the ball before it hit the ground

on the rebound on a deflected pass from Bradshaw. Franco waltzed into the endzone to score the winning TD for the Steelers. .... oh!!!!
Conception????? Oooops!

[frylock]

6. jinx!! you owe me a coke!!

:bounce:

[JVS]

26. That was the immaculate Reception

[frylock]

5. because after tatum drilled john fuqua..

Franco Harris caught the ball (alledgedly) off of the carom, and take it to the house. errrrr.. uhhhhh.. nevermind.

[JVS]

27. What a glorious gridiron moment!

[renie408]

12. Hey, have you read The DaVinci Code??

You should read it, you would like it. Within the context of a so-so action-adventure novel, it happens to manage to impart a helluva lot of theological information, most of it not the kind of stuff your minister is likely to tell you. Things like the fact that there were dozens and dozens of gospels that the new testament was officially put together four hundred years AFTER the death of Christ and that there were dozens of gospels that were not chosen to be included and were destroyed. This was done at the Counsel of Nicene (sp), I believe. Also, at that time, some Roman guy decided that it looked like Christianity was the way to go, but he didn't want to alienate his pagan followers, so he blended the two to create a new, one god religion. Some of the building blocks for the new religion that he borrowed from the pagan religion were the December 25th birthday of some sun god, who also (get this) was supposed to have died and then risen from the dead three days later. Sound familiar?? Anyway, I read it when it first came out so I may have muddled some of the details, but it also goes all into some other pretty wild stuff about Christ and his life.

[Cheswick2.0]

20. Yeah when I study religion I always turn to sophmoric novels I read ...

in college.

[renie408]

25. So, you are a college student?

Ok, I just lost my temper. Being condescended to by total strangers in obnoxious one liners does that to me.

First, The DaVinci Code was published five months ago. You are a really recent college student if you 'read it in college'. Second, if you did read it, what about it did you find sophmoric? I read it in my book club awhile back and the person who introduced us to it is a theology and philosophy major who is currently working on her Ph D. She might be more sophmoric than you, I have no idea, but she has always struck me as a pretty smart lady. She thought that the premise of the book was fascinating and vouched for all of the theology as it was referred to in the book. Third, this is a bio-blip thing about Dan Brown "The son of a Presidential Award winning math professor and of a professional sacred musician, Dan grew up surrounded by the paradoxical philosophies of science and religion. These complementary perspectives served as inspiration for his acclaimed novel Angels & Demons—a science vs. religion thriller set within a Swiss physics lab and Vatican City. Recently, he has begun work on a series of symbology thrillers featuring his popular protagonist Robert Langdon, a Harvard professor of iconography and religious art. The upcoming series will include books set in Paris, London, and Washington D.C." He doesn't really sound like the kind of guy who writes 'sophmoric' novels. Fourth, I never said that you should read this book as your main source of religious information. I said that if the original poster of this thread was interested in such things, it was an interesting book.

[kodi]

22. dont mistake the menu for the meal or man for the message

I find little to argue with in the teachings of Jesus. The behavior of his followers, as with any sage's should not be the reason the teachings of the sage should be rejected.

Even Buddhists have attacked each other over control of monasteries.

I believe in the Christ. The Christ lives in us all, Jesus, me, you, all of us.

tut tvam asi.

[renie408]

24. That is actually

pretty much the point of the book. That the teachings of Christ and his life itself are the important things. It is really not an anti-Christian book and more an anti-Christian dogma book. It talks about the sacred feminine that has been lost in the version of Christianity that is most widely practiced today and the subjugation of women by the Church.

[DemBones DemBones]

13. Imagine someone surfing the net, interested in finding out about

the Democratic Party, the Dem candidates, etc., finding DU and reading this post. . .

This sort of post would offend a great many people, be an absolute deal breaker as far as participating at DU, and, even worse, it reflects badly on the party and the candidates. Most people who visit the site probably never notice the disclaimer that DU is not an official Democratic site.

For these reasons, I've sent an alert, but I hope you will realize how inappropriate the post is and edit it. There are ways to ask for a definition of the Immaculate Conception without offending anyone -- and Liberty Chick has already given an explanation, as has another poster whose name I'm sorry I don't recall.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DemBones DemBones]

17. Very classy. Maybe you don't care about turning off potential

Dem voters but I do.

[renie408]

19. Well Gosh

I would think that potential Dem voters would be interested in the freedom offered by our party. They can stay Repukes and get censored all day long.

[DemBones DemBones]

28. People with manners show respect for other people and for their

beliefs. It's the decent way to behave. If your idea of "freedom" is insulting other people, you are misinformed.

[renie408]

30. I am going to put aside the sarcasm

or at least try to. This is the kind of thing that makes me spitting mad, but I am going to try to see things your way.

Ok, you think the original thread could possibly be offensive to some passing Christians, right? So, I also see that you have been around here long enough to have posted more than 1000 posts, so you have been around longer than I have. Have you noticed the tone of a good many of the threads here? I don't really think that anybody really cares a whole lot that somebody might get randomly offended by their words. And nobody is holding a gun to anybody's head and requiring that they either A) read this thread or B) enjoy it or C) agree with its tone. What you are essentially saying is that your perceived notion of the niceties of society and some wandering Christian's posssibly/maybe being offended is more important than a frank discussion about religion amongst adults. No matter that both you and the wandering Christian have to seek out this thread to read it and therefore be offended.

Can you see where I am coming from here? If you don't like the content of this thread, move on. Nobody is asking anybody to read it or believe in it or anything else.

I have to confess that I have never been a big fan of hall monitors. And it seems a little creepy for you to be alerting the powers that be because you think this thread could possibly/maybe offend the Christians wandering the internet. Personally, most of the Christians I know are a lot more resilient than that.

[renie408]

21. I was just looking around

and if any potential Dem voters are not turned off by the 'What's wrong with Carrot Top' thread or the 'Madonna- love her or hate her' thread or the 'twisted Republican sh*t' thread , nothing is going to bother them.

[XanaDUer]

29. That is a very rude thing to say to anyone.

I have seen people here be kind to you, provided support for your candidate, and you got snippy with them too.

[renie408]

33. Resisting the urge to be snippy some more....

I dislike it when people feel that it is their job to monitor the behavior of others because they cannot take something as lightheartedly as it was intended.

And I have been supportive of others and their candidates and other people have gotten snippy with me and I will again and so will they. I was probably more rude than absolutely neccessary. But the whole pious tone of the post rubbed me the wrong way. The supposition that we are supposed to censor our thoughts, especially in the DU Lounge, because they might offend any passing Christian who wanders by is weird and obnoxious to me. Perhaps the poster did not intend to sound like the Church Lady, but that is sure what I got out of it.

I have been supported here and I have been supportive. I have also been blasted for absolutely no reason whatsoever. What has that got to do with this?

[renie408]

18. You know,

now I think I am offended.

We are supposed to now censor our posts to make sure that any wandering member of the Christian faith will not be offended by them?? What is that? How about the atheists?? Or the Buddhists? Or the Moonies?? Cause I am telling you, there was some stuff on one of the boards earlier today that would really offend the Moonies. Maybe you should look it up and alert the management to make sure that no Moonies will be offended here.

[KittyWampus]

14. The Virgin Symbolized PRAKRITI

The word prakriti means "nature" or the building and constitution of the Natural World including
the human body. Pra means the "beginning", "commencement" or "source of origin"
and kruthi means "to perform" or "to form". Put together, prakriti means "natural
form" or "original form" or "original source".

Because the Virgin Mary or Prakriti is the ORIGINAL FORM from which all else emerges she is incorruptible.

She is within everything and everything is within her.

Therefore, everything is intimately related and inter-related since we all come from the same source.

The blessing that flows from this knowledge is that we are able to touch & influence one another.

We are especially blessed when we find special people with whom we can merge and experience Union with.

In a very real sense, Mary/Prakriti is linked with Coition.

[nedlogg]

16. I want to know . . .

how Mary explained it to Joseph.

[XanaDUer]

31. If I remember,

she said she was visited by the Holy Spirit.

Queen Maya was visited by a holy elephant in a dream, and therefore we have the Buddha.

Same sort of stuff with Krishna, I cannot remember that one.

[Nicholas_J]

32. Yes...

I like to think that average people have to mythologize historical religious figures in order to give them an excuse to not follow their example.

Besides DU has rules against being critical or attacking ANY religion

When discussing race, gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity, or religion, please exercise the appropriate level of sensitivity toward others and take extra care to clearly express your point of view. This will help avoid misunderstandings and undeserved accusations of bigotry.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html#bigotry

I view this as a veiled attempt to attack one religion and its beliefs.

[BigMcLargehuge]

34. I am locking this thread

It is insensitive to the people of faith we welcome on this board.

Big McLargehuge
DU Monitor