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The Dumbest, Laziest, Most Dishonest Film of All Time?

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Crankie Avalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 11:10 AM
Original message
The Dumbest, Laziest, Most Dishonest Film of All Time?
Off-hand, I'd say "The Green Berets" might take the cake...


(Marion "John" Wayne once again
pretending to do onscreen what he
passed on when he had his chance
in real life)




As the Sun Sets on the Popularity of the War...

by

Paige Tredinnick

Ray Kellogg and John Wayne's 1968 movie The Green Berets opens with a press conference hosted by the Green Berets themselves, as they attempt to answer the snippy questions of skeptical reporters as to why we are fighting in Vietnam. I think we are even supposed to feel sorry for the big army men as the inexcusably un-American and rude radical journalists accost them. The film tackles this rather daunting task head-on, as if unaware of any reasons why the American public would ever question the legitimacy of military involvement in Asia, either in 1968 or ever. The film is an obvious "press conference" with an American public that is visibly skeptical and in need of answers. John Wayne, in co-directing and starring in The Green Berets, might as well have been working directly for the U.S. government as he propagandizes for the military.

Katherine Kinney, in her book Friendly Fire: American Images of the Vietnam War, sums up the film perfectly when she says that "The Green Berets can be seen as the final act in Wayne's personal audition to play the mythic embodiment of the American ideologies that went to Vietnam: anticommunism, racism, and imperialism masked by the rhetoric of manifest destiny and mission."<1> She quotes Eric Bentley as emphasizing "Wayne's role as president of the Motion Picture Alliance for the Preservation of American Ideals, founded in 1944 to combat 'the growing impression that this industry is made up of, and dominated by, Communists, radicals and crack-pots,' and its link to the naming of names before the House Un-American Activities Committee. HUAAC's Hollywood investigations, Bentley argues, coerced the members of the entertainment industry not only to defend themselves as not communist but to become 'anticommunist,' thus moving the center to the right and paving the road to Vietnam."<2>

The film, of course, is an unintentionally humorous, thin, and messy shell for anti-communist sentiments, and it was in fact overseen by top government officials proving that not everyone, if they just put his or her mind to it, can write. According to Dr. Chester Yosarian of the United States Army, "personally supervising all levels of production, The Duke ordered that all military, political and diplomatic aspects of America's 'backchannel' military mission in Vietnam be screen-written into The Green Berets' dialogue and action. Lyndon Johnson Administration and military consultants some of whom served in Vietnam-related federal duties as far back as the Eisenhower Administration attended every filming sequence."<3>

Unfortunately for the film, there were no geological or astronomical experts to assist the filmmakers, as the sun, in an unusual turn of events, sets in the East over the South China Sea. Other than that, we can only assume that The Green Berets, with all its pro-war and anti-communist sentiments and excessive violence was just what the government wanted it to be, as they undeniably had a hand in the production. They were wise to choose Wayne as their messenger to the people, because according to Garry Wills, "The Green Berets was a commercial success despite all critical ridicule."<4> Yet again, Wayne serves as a willing political pawn.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

<1> Katherine Kinney, Friendly Fire : American Images of the Vietnam War, (Oxford: Oxford University Press, Incorporated, 2000), 15.

<2> Ibid., 16.

<3> Chester A. Yosarian, "The United States Army's Green Berets: History Re-evaluated, Corrected and Respected." Dr. Yosarian retired as a Specialist, Fourth Grade from the United States Army in 1972. Under the G.I. Education Bill, Dr. Yosarian completed Masters and Doctor of Philosophy degrees in Clinical Psychology with minors in History, Education and Sociology. Along with publishing, speaking engagements and Department of Defense-related consulting, Dr. Yosarian's most recent work is in encouraging and assisting military veterans of all ranks to pursue writing and higher education for the purpose of assuming Elder Statesman status. <http://us.imdb.com/Reviews/51/5197> Accessed on April 29, 2001.

<4> Garry Wils, John Wayne's America: The Politics of Celebrity. (New York: Simon & Schuster, 1997), 233.

http://mcel.pacificu.edu/jwasia/reviews/beretsPT.html
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Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
1. Any Oliver Stone film you care to name...
Crappiest storyteller extant. x(
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. actually, "Salvador" and "Platoon" were really good....
n/t
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Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. Platoon: meh.
Cartoon characters.
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. left a Viet vet sobbing in the audience...
...when I saw it. Not that it's perfect, but, that was some powerful cartoon...
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ET Awful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Hey, Born on the Fourth of July and The People vs. Larry Flynt
were pretty okay.

Other than that, I'd pretty much agree with you.
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Crankie Avalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Wasn't The People vs. Larry Flynt...
...directed by Milos Forman?
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ET Awful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Stone was the Producer. n/t
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clutchcargo Donating Member (64 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. ALEXANDER AND BLADE 2
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Jesus H. Christ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
26. Scarface was one of the best films ever made.
So good, Pacino's been playing the same character in every film since.
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
6. FahrenHYPE 9/11
:puke:
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intheflow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
8. Blair Witch Project
Movie sucked BIG TIME!
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fluffernutter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. i am so with you on this one.
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hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #8
22. ITA eom
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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #8
24. You're SO right, and I love hearing it
Nothing. Not even anything. It was the Emperor's New Clothes taken to the enth.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #8
35. How can a documentary sucks? Those were real people, man.
Edited on Tue Dec-21-04 10:07 PM by autorank
This shit happened. Nobody wants to admit it because the implications are too chilling. Did you see "Blair Witch 2", just as good and just as true. Don't fuck with the truth for it shall set you free. I went on a drive to the little town in MD where the stuff all took place. Very creepy, drove around for an hour and DIDN'T SEE ONE PERSON. Oh yeah, tell me that's normal. It isn't. Then a mile down the road, my transmission went out, new car. Then my cell went out while calling AAA. Toothless guy shows up in a pickup and asks if I want a ride. Tell me it's a coincidence. The Witch is real! The Witch is real!
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Itchinjim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
11. ANY Chuck Norris movie.
Big steaming, stinking piles of crap each and every one of them. I might add all the Rambo flicks too. Movies like these helped bring about the mentality that invading small countries and killing the native "slopes" and "ragheads" was not only America's right but also her duty. Their message? "War is Fun"!
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hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #11
23. Don't forget the Steven Segal movies eom
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jeff30997 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #23
30. Steven Segal !!!
Please don't ever mention that name again. :puke:
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terrya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
12. "Red Dawn"
1980's right wing crapola (in every sense of the word) directed by militarist crappy right wing director John Milius. The Soviet Union *GASP* invades the United States. The film takes place in Boulder, Colorado...and only a clean cut band of youths...led by Patrick Swayze...fends off those evil, atheist commies.

Possibly one of the most idiotic films ever made. Check your IQ at the door if you want to watch this one.

T
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eyepaddle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. I'm proud to say
that I was in my early teenage years when that movie came out and EVEN then I knew that movie was impossibly moronic. I don't think I learned that Lea Thompson was in it until a couple of years ago. Now THAT's effectively ignoring a movie! :)
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FM Arouet666 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
14. I agree with Green Berets
In fact, this movie sprung to mind before I opened your thread. Absolute rubbish. Good thing Wayne is dead, else we would most certainly have to kill him.
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jeff30997 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #14
31. If he wasn't dead he would do an Iraq war movie.
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GOPisEvil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
15. Nothing like watching sunset in Vietnam...over the beaches and ocean...
One problem: Vietnam's coastline faces EAST! The Green Berets is the best bad war movie ever.
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NoPasaran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-04 07:11 AM
Response to Reply #15
40. Best bad war movie: Battle of the Bulge
My favorite scene is where the Germans blow the turret right off Telly Savalas' tank and all it does is make Telly MAD.
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edbermac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
17. James Bond You Only Live Twice...
I watch it when its on, but it's so stupidly written plot-wise it comes off as a precursor to the Austin Powers movies...
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Bullwinkle925 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
18. Boxing Helena..........UGH - Walked Out!!
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sundog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
19. Birth of a Nation
fuck DW Griffith
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Jesus H. Christ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
20. Saw five minutes of Green Beret on AMC.
Shortly after Abu Ghraib. John Wayne shoots a vietnamese POW and is portrayed as a hero. Didn't watch any more than that.
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FrankBooth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
21. Pretty Woman and Dirty Dancing
These two piles of dung warped a whole generation of Americans.
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Jesus H. Christ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
25. What Dreams May Come.
Robin Williams dies and goes to Expressionist heaven. His wife goes to hell because she's an atheist. So he goes to hell to save her. Apparently Hell looks EXACTLY like Dore's woodcuts for Dante's Inferno, only with more bad lawyer jokes.

It's like the Divine Comedies rewritten by Oprah and Sun Yung Moon.
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Norbert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
27. Reefer Madness
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NightTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
28. I can't believe no one has said RAMBO!
Talk about an exercise in the cynical manipulation of people's emotions!
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Jesus H. Christ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. You don't mean the first film
do you?

Should sequels really count?
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NightTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. No, no. I meant RAMBO: FIRST BLOOD, PART 2.
And why shouldn't sequels count, particularly one as cynical and manipulative as that piece of shit?
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Jesus H. Christ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. By the very nature of the term "sequel"
sequels are dumb, lazy, and dishonest. With very few exceptions.
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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
34. I think Rambo movies, though I've never seen more than 5 minutes of one.
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Crankie Avalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-04 06:40 AM
Response to Original message
36. Interesting choices all...
Edited on Wed Dec-22-04 06:42 AM by Crankie Avalon
...and each of you makes me feel fotunate for not having seen any of them (except the second Rambo movie).

Partly for that reason, I'm going to have to stick to The Green Berets as my choice. My other reason, though, is that while all the movies we've mentioned were putrid, I doubt any of them were quite as obscene as The Green Berets for the simple reason that the others were about hypothetical, fantasy scenarios (Red Dawn--a Soviet invasion, Rambo--one guy going "back to the 'Nam" decades later and single-handedly defeating the entire country in a "rematch") that were too ridiculous to be damaging or harmful.

The Green Berets was a tissue of lies put out at the height of the real-as-real-gets Vietnam conflict, six months after Tet. Human beings were being killed for those lies, and the film was designed to win support for that and prolong the carnage and US involvement.

The only other film mentioned that might have that sort of thing going for it (carrying water for war criminals) would be "FahrenHYPE 911," and in the end I would be leery to put it in the same class as The Green Berets for the simple reason that almost no one bothered seeing "FahrenHYPE 911." The Green Berets, on the other hand, was pretty widely seen and achieved some box office success.

There are two other short and interesting essays about The Green Berets at this site (the links to the essays are at the bottom of the page), discussing among other things, the casual racism of the movie, as well: http://mcel.pacificu.edu/jwasia/reviews/beretsPT.html
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-04 06:50 AM
Response to Reply #36
38. any movie where someone like Arnold or Bruce Willis plays the
part of a soldier, agent, cop, you name it and you know they'd get their heads handed to them immediately in the real world. Die hard movies. Terminator.

GAK!
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terrya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-04 07:16 AM
Response to Reply #36
41. I sure understand about your reasoning concerning "The Green Berets"
I remember seeing it when it first came out. It strikes me now as pure propaganda vetted by the Pentagon. American servicemen didn't die as a result of "Red Dawn", as ridiculously alarmist as that movie was. "The Green Berets" is a shameful abomination.
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-04 06:47 AM
Response to Original message
37. "It's A Wonderful Life"
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henslee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-04 07:08 AM
Response to Original message
39. I saw Green Berets in the theatre as a very little kid. It was one of my
first movie experiences along with The Sound Of Music -- the kind you vividly becuase it was so new/seminal. Besides being the first time I went into a theatre when it was light and came out when it was dark, I remember loving the boobie traps of the Viet Cong and also thinking how sad it was when the little boy was crying as he tried to find his GI pal -- who obviously didnt come back from the mission. And I thought the song was brilliant. I have no recollection of the press conference. I must have been six. Why my Uncle took us to see such a violent movie I have no idea. I've seen glimpses of it since. Always amazing to see your perspective change.
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bloodyjack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-04 07:29 AM
Response to Original message
42. Citizen Kane
perhaps you've heard of it?
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