Had a Christmas fight with my mother today, long-distance.

[intheflow]

Told her I thought the Trinity was bullshit and that I think Christianity in America today makes an idol out of Jesus--as in, the false idols that the 10 Commandments forbid. She, i turn, told me she had raised me wrong, since we didn't go to church when I was growing up. Never mind that I'm studying to become a UU minister now! Never mind that I'm a peace activist! She raised me wrong because I don't accept Jesus as the only son of God--or worse, that I don't believe Jesus was God.

This is why I don't ever call her. She's a Jesusland Republican and I'm a political dissident leftist religious leader. The two things I care about most--politcs and religion--are diametrically opposed to her. I can feel the argument start before the phone finishes ringing.

Still, I feel bad. I love her in spite of her insane beliefs. And I hate to think this is my family Christmas memory for 2004. Please give advice on how I should handle my guilt.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. Ask for forgiveness from God

In my life, I've found that sometimes it takes a lot of time to let go of guilt, but that that is the first step. You have already stated you love her in spite of her beliefs-hang onto that feeling, and tell her that the next time you speak, if it feels right in your heart. My very best wishes for you in your path towards UU ministry.

[LiberalinNC]

2. As a mom, here's my advice,

can you write her a note and tell her that your sorry for the fight? Don't go into the political or religious stuff, but tell her that you love her, thank her for raising you well and helping you become a good and decent adult.

Even if you don't send that note, at least you have put your feelings down on paper, sometimes, that helps. But I would send the note, it could help her see that you are a good person.

Hope this helps!

[aQuArius]

3. You love your mom, that's the most important..

no matter your differences...

[auntAgonist]

4. did you tell her you love her?

I think you should feel guilty. I think YOU have a right to your beliefs and she has a right to hers. I don't think either of you have the right to hurt the other. She is your Mother, there will come a day when she will no longer be a phone call away. Did you tell her you love her?

That's all that matters ... right now.

[intheflow]

5. Yes, I always tell her I love her.

but you have to understand the family history of passive aggressive behavior to understand that just because we tell each other we love each other doesn't alleviate the bad feelings between us. :shrug:

[auntAgonist]

6. Then suggestion number 2 is .. see LiberalinNC's answer.

Family is important. You need to find a way to bridge the gap. Apologize for your part in the fight. Don't let it ruin your Christmas memories .. or worse.

[Bouncy Ball]

7. Let it go.

Or if you are spiritually inclined, ask your Higher Power to take it from you.

Meditate.

Write it all out on a piece of paper then burn it in the fireplace.

Deep breaths.

On edit: the two of you probably need to come to a BINDING agreement never to discuss politics or religion. EVER.

[intheflow]

9. I like the burning paper suggestion.

Very cathartic, very ritualistic, does not entangle my projections of the conversation onto my mother as a letter of any kind would.

Thanks.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

12. Save yourself

Some distances cannot be bridged, no matter how profoundly we wish they could. Some differences are too vast to be overlooked, and all histories carry over into our todays.

You and your mother aren't arguing about either religion or politics. Those are useful vehicles, but they're not the main subject. There's a history there of non-acceptance, rejection, abandonment, and rage.

After a certain point in life (I once arbitrarily set it at 50), there's no blaming our parents for what they are, and there's no beating up on ourselves for what our parents did or didn't do to/for us. I mean, we all stand alone, and we make our own decisions.

Send your mother the regular gifts. Write innocuous, but affectionate, notes, and do not ever get yourself into the position you got yourself into today by making "obligatory" phone calls. When you said you could feel the argument rising before she even answered the phone, you gave away the whole story.

Save yourself. Save your mother. Go through the motions and make your peace with yourself. Then, live your life as beautifully and wonderfully as you can, and try to accept your mother as she is.

But, keep your distance, because my bet is that she's never going to accept you.

Merry Christmas, friend.

[bobbieinok]

8. don't want to hijack your thread, but this was my interaction with my mom

today......she will be 92 in Feb

she's at an assisted living residence......I went at 4pm, .....she's asleep....

aide says she ate nothing for breakfast, I saw her dinner tray....unopened..

my brothers had said she was really getting frail, not eating, losing weight....

I kept encouraging her to eat....she'd ask why.....I'd reply so you can bug your kids, so you can live to be 92....

and once she asked why she should live, there wasn't anything for her to do......and repeated to me don't ever get old..

(she was an FDR democrat; pretty quiet about her politics, but a long-time member of the League of Women Voters........was upset that Clinton 'messed up' in OUR house ....WH belongs to the people)

[OldLeftieLawyer]

10. This is the rhythm of life

Your Mom's on her own journey. She gets to decide, it sounds like. And all you can do is respect her choice and love her. Not any of us has to stay here because someone else wants that, not if life is that onerous.

I wish you both the best.

[intheflow]

11. You're not hijacking my thread.

And I'm sorry to hear about your mother. My mother is 72 and healthy as a horse, but she just buried her 94-year-old father earlier this year, and his decline was a lot like how you're describing your mother.

Still, it is because my mother is getting older that I feel so bad. She used to be smart and hip, but turned conservative upon her retirement. A lot of this is me missing my formerly hip mom. I don't want the chasm between us to to grow to the point that I won't be able to ever enjoy her company again for however long she'll still be around.

There's other family history that's playing out here as well. Too long to go into. But thanks for reminding me what's important--and how fast the years go by.

Peace.

[2Design]

14. my mom stopped wanting to be here at 67 and her behavior

was causing her ill health - I angerily asked why she was killing her self - she said if she had a gun she would end it

that is when I stopped and thought - it is her life and her choice and the best thing I could do is try to really get to know her and have pleasant conversations from there on out

so before I would call I would think of all the positive things I wanted to talk about and questions to ask her about her life

that was when I first got to know my mom as a women and girl and not my mom

those are moments/conversations I will cherish - she died about a year and half later -

I just decided to look at it all differently - I was at peace with our relationship when she passed -

I avoided any subjects that would cause conflict -

Just thought I would share what I did and maybe it will help you decide your course of action

[wellstone dem]

18. Thank you

what a beautiful story.

[RevCheesehead]

13. Hmm...there's a lot going on there.

I'm not sure I agree that you need to "apologize." That is the kind of response that keeps the passive-aggressives spinning, and reinforces her behavior.

Probably best to first of all, let some time pass before you contact her again - at least a couple of days. You will probably feel differently about this phone call tomorrow (meaning not as agitated).

At some time, you'll probably have to say, "you know, I'm an adult, and I have chosen my path in life. Obviously, we believe in different things. But we're still connected to each other, so I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on certain issues."

on edit:
Just read your post above. Grief is a MAJOR factor that gets played out in all kinds of ways. And many passive-aggressives don't do grief well. Sounds like you're grieving, too.

Could you maybe address the grieving head-on? "Mom, I miss grandpa, too - and Christmas is especially hard on all of us..." could be a really good opener for an honest discussion.

[2Design]

15. you are right - apologizing to try to smooth things over does not

work - changing your approach and attitude does

[0007]

19. My father is 93 and in a nursing home. He is a right winger

in the deepest sense. We've had many fights during the years. My son is 42 and is a born again Christan and that sucks also. It is hard to get close to either one. But I still hang around and get my digs in when I can.

Sorry but the real love isn't there, I believe its their attitude about humanity that I have a hard time with! And the fact they think Rush Limbaugh is god! Jays'us what a turn off.

[intheflow]

16. You are wise, RevCheesehead.

While remembering that my grandfather died, I somehow completely disconnected that he died on Christmas Eve--a year ago yesterday--from my coversation with Mom today. Of course that's part of our interaction today. Thank you so much for being a "bell of mindfulness" here on DU.

[RevCheesehead]

17. "Bell of mindfulness" - or just plain "ding-a-ling?"

:)

There's the center of the argument right there. And she probably wanted to talk about it, but expected that you would remember - or read her mind.

Call her tomorrow. Have some Kleenex nearby.