Why are Americans not "getting" even basic science?

[Baclava]

http://www.nsf.gov/sbe/srs/seind02/append/c7/at07-10.pdf



25% think the Sun rotates the earth
52% think that electrons are bigger than atoms
67% of Americans don't accept the model of the big bang!*
47% of Americans don't accept the theory of evolution
55% of people don't know what DNA is
78% of people can't define the term molecule
46% can't define a year

*Admittedly, calling it a "huge explosion" probably caught some nitpickers

[yardwork]

1. Don't forget the folks who think the military cause tsunamis

[Maple]

5. Or those folks too stubborn

to admit that setting off huge explosions all around the world for over half a century won't affect anything at all...but believe that the aerosol in spray cans could kill us all.

[Left Is Write]

20. They do?

[arwalden]

59. And Mercury Occasionally Reverses Its Orbital Path Around The Sun

[redqueen]

2. I'm going to just bang my head against this desk until I fit in better

with the rest of my chukleheaded countrymen... k?

:argh:

[mark414]

3. i thought i read somewhere

that only about 10% of the public knew who william rehnquist was and could name his position

[JohnKleeb]

60. I wouldnt be surprised

God I must be one in a 1000 if I can name all the judges and who appointed them
William Rehnquist by Nixon, became chief justice by Reagan
Anthony Kennedy by Reagan
Sandra Day O'Connor by Reagan
David Souter by Bush I
Steven Brouder wrong spelling I know but by Clinton
Ruth Bader Ginsburg by Clinton
John Paul Stevens by Ford
Clarence Thomas by Bush I
Antonin Scalia by Reagan

[qnr]

4. Disgusting, isn't it? n/t

[sans qualia]

6. A year is the amount of time that goes by

between each celebration of our Lord Jesus Christ's birth! Glory!

[pmbryant]

7. Apparently, scientists are very poor at public outreach

Something I'm resovled to become better at. I'm not a working scientist, but I used to be. And clearly this is an area that needs some attention.

--Peter

[Baclava]

12. Freeman Dyson

Had some great books...

http://www.nybooks.com/authors/514

[vpigrad]

8. It's to prevent critical thinking!

It's harder to convince people of a lie when they can think critically.

For example, the largest muslim country in the world was attacked by a tidal wave, and I haven't heard many people question why that happened. It's worth looking into even if it wasn't intentional. It could have been just due to plate expansion due to global warming, but other things are possible.

[Ediacara]

74. WTF

GLOBAL WARMING CAN'T CAUSE TSUNAMIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GLOBAL WARMING CAN'T CAUSE EARTHQUAKES!!!!!!!!!!!!

HUMANS CANNOT CAUSE EARTHQUAKES!!!!!!!!!!!!

And people wonder why DUers aren't taken seriously.... :shrug:

[mitchum]

9. Because TV is their special friend

[tridim]

10. Although it's ironic.. If they had watched PBS last night

They would know the basics of string theory. Some TV is good, although 95% is terrible.

[hfojvt]

18. See the cat? See the cradle? n/t

[alexisfree]

11. only the US can have ...

this kind of Homo neanderthalensis....

[kick-ass-bob]

13. What about half the people thinking humans lived with dinosaurs?

:eyes:

[mark414]

14. duh they did!

haven't you ever seen the flintstones???

[kick-ass-bob]

15. yabba dabba doo!!!!!

[Baclava]

19. I thought birds were dinosaurs...

No?

[kick-ass-bob]

21. Only if homo sapien is homo erectus...

and no jokes please...
:P

[Baclava]

25. Well....

I named my cockatiel T-Rex...Rex for short...he's real good at saying...

"Shit, Rex, shit"

...don't know if this counts...

[LongTomH]

46. I thought Republicans were the dinosaurs!

:evilgrin:

[Baclava]

53. Impossible!

Unless dinosaurs really were cold-blooded...

[hfojvt]

16. maybe because it is irrelevant?

Other than playing a game of trivial pursuit, which nobody does anymore, of what possible use is this information to the average American?
Someone else mentioned critical thinking. That information is not critical thinking - it is memorized like numbers in a phone book. You might as well criticize people for not knowing a bunch of phone numbers.

[Baclava]

22. You're right...

What use is knowledge anyway...it just goes to the grave when you die.

[kick-ass-bob]

23. yes, everyone knows no one ever uses science for anything.

:eyes:

[liontamer]

29. I think hfojvt has a point

We all learn a lot about the basics of a wide variety of fields when we're in school (hopefully), but we forget most of these things as we go through life. Largely because we don't use them and don't need to use them.

I know I've forgotten a lot of scientific facts, but to me it's more important that I know where to find that information if I need it. That was the important part of my education

These facts are called trivia because they really are trivial pieces of information. The inability of people to recall them may reflect a greater problem in our society (lack of emphasis on education, lack of rational thought in general) but forgetting facts that you haven't used in years is not the biggest deal.

[sir_captain]

32. I understand what you're saying

but not knowing extremely basic facts indicates a probable wider lack of knowledge that will be a real handicap in a competitive work environment. Think of it this way--would you want your kid to know this stuff? I mean, we're not talking rocket science here...

[qnr]

33. That's bull. Sure people forget things. But thinking the

Sun revolves around the Earth? Can't define a year? How in the world is such basic knowledge irrelevant?

[Left Is Write]

58. I agree to a point also, but

things like knowing the Earth's rotation and what DNA is aren't exactly trivial matters.

[Pacifist Patriot]

67. There is a difference between "trivia" and basic knowledge.

The fact that the earth revolves around the sun instead of vice versa is hardly trivial.

[liontamer]

24. good point n/t

[qnr]

26. I'm gaping. Honestly. That a human being in 2004 could actually

utter such a statement.

[hfojvt]

35. Actually, it was typed

and I could quote either Keynes or Winnie the Pooh about the ridiculous things it is possible to think.
Obviously, there are many kinds of knowledge.
There is the knowledge of what to do with your life.
There is the knowledge of how to fix a car, or a lock, or build a bookshelf or a house.
There is the knowledge of how to defend yourself from physical attack.
There is the knowledge of how to socialize and persuade and romance.
There is the knowledge of how to grow and prepare food.
There is the knowledge of how to care for children and sick people.
Look at that list and tell me that there is anything more relevant on it than say, knowing what the county seat is of Cass County, Indiana or knowing what the population is of Hickok, Kansas or knowing the meaning of the word supererogation or knowing how to spell Albuquerque.

[qnr]

36. Right, like it's an either/or situation. Bye-bye.

[ProfessorGAC]

38. Unbrilliant!

'Nuff Said!
The Professor

[redqueen]

42. WOULD SOMEBODY JUST KILL ME NOW!

PLEASE?

[hfojvt]

44. certainly the redqueen should be able to believe

at least six impossible things before breakfast. Or was that the White Queen, or the Hatter.
Omigod, I am an ignorant idiot (but at least I am honest about it).
Maybe it was the Cheshire Beagle.

[redqueen]

45. Very good!

How are you an ingorant idiot?

I just weep for my country that we have fewer and fewer engineering / science majors each year.

As a whole, we're getting stupider, of that there is no doubt.

[hfojvt]

48. I did not know if it was the red queen or the white, etc.

Also I am remembering either John Brunner's Stand on Zanzibar or The Sheep Look Up. I think it was Stand where the sociologist wrote this book called - you are an ignorant idiot.
As a fan of the Krugster and an economics major myself, I think we need more people studying economics. Most of the engineers I knew in college were fundamentalist christians. Very smart, in spite of their disbelief in evolution. They all get good-paying jobs for the military-industrial complex (as I did, but quickly quit) and then vote Republican, but at least they are not voting against their self-interest.

[redqueen]

50. Oog

Of all the engineering types I've known over the years, and I do try to work around them as I do fancy them so... only ONE was a fundie. The rest were either politely christian or agnostic or atheist. Guess I've been lucky!

Anyways... not gonna argue with ya. We need more economists, scientists, engineers, etc...

oops duh... and on edit... it was the white queen, but still... good memory. :)

[liontamer]

49. does it matter that we have fewer engineering/science majors

when we have fewer engineering/science jobs? If we had more, better paying jobs in these fields more people would go into them.

[redqueen]

51. I don't know if this is true, really.

We're hurting for SAP programmers here... if we could find them we would hire them in a second... but there just aren't enough around.

And as for medical field... we're importing nurses from all over... there's another field we need more people in.

I think we have fewer jobs overall, but still the number of science-related degree earners goes down year after year. It's a bit frightening, really.

[Baclava]

55. 'tis nobler

...in the mind to
suffer The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them.

To die: to sleep

[Merrick]

68. Knowledge of basic facts isn't irrelevant

They're integral to the formation of a clear, coherent perspective of the world, sound critical thinking, etc. Not understanding or rejecting basic science isnt a trivial matter the way knowing Keanu Reeve's birthday is.

[SidDithers]

73. September 2...

:evilgrin:

(looked it up, I don't carry around that kind of useless trivia in my head. Basic knowledge of how the world works, on the other hand...)

Sid

[NNadir]

71. It is exactly this kind of thinking that proves we are doomed.

If you had any idea how dependent you are on scientific knowledge, well, we wouldn't be facing the tragedy we are facing.

That one could even say such a thing, is exactly why the United States perfectly deserves what it is going to get. And what it going to get is a tremendous, unimaginable disaster.

Ignorance, deliberate ignorance and enforced ignorance, kills.

[hfojvt]

72. Well, I am happy to have accomplished something

I did not say anything about deliberate ignorance, but I still believe that I have a right to disbelieve the theory of relativity and alot of other nonsense about "singularities".
Just because I am dependent on scientific knowledge does not mean that society is dependent on me, or even 60% of the world, knowing scientific knowledge. That will matter to me when they pry my janitor's mop out of my cold dead hands. If science had any value in this country you would think that a guy with a math degree and almost a physics degree, such as say, myself, would be able to get a job that involved some kind of that knowledge. Believe me now, and listen to me later, our cabbies and carpenters and custodians do not need to know that the earth revolves around the sun, nor do they need to believe in the big bang theory, or evolution. It is not the end of the world if they do not.
Humanity is not in trouble because of a lack of knowledge. We are in trouble because of an excess of hate, a lack of love and understanding.

[Not_Giving_Up]

17. My son got sent to the office for arguing with his third grade teacher

Seems she thought the sun was a planet, he thought it was a star. My little Aspie kiddo wouldn't back down from his point. When the principal called and told me that he was sent to her for arguing, I asked what about. She didn't know. Once she found out, she sent him back to class without punishment, and the write up disappeared.

[sakabatou]

27. My astronomy teacher would have a heart-attack

Oy.

[pink-o]

28. That stupid teacher should disappear

No wonder kids come out of the school system all cynical and apathetic...

As for basic science, I found myself explaining why the days grow shorter and longer to a group of my co-workers, all in their 20s and 30s. You know....the earth being tilted on its axis and its orbital position around the sun every six months, etc etc. Stuff I learned in 5th grade. But I'm 50, so I guess schools have really gone downhill in the last 30-some years! But come on....

Many of these people didn't know that the southern hemisphere has opposite seasons. And you wanna know the scariest thing about it?

We all work in the travel industry!

[Not_Giving_Up]

31. I'm glad to say that my son is a math and science nut

He knows what season it is in the southern hemisphere. He knows geography well, he loves maps and spends hours memorizing them. (Part of being an Aspie!)

I'm glad that now (5th grade) he has 3 different teachers, and the science one knows her stuff.

[Sunny_Sunshine]

40. What's an Aspie?

I've not heard that term. I also love maps although I don't memorize them, I do love looking at them.

[tridim]

41. Shorthand for Asperger syndrome

a mild form of Autism. http://www.aspie.com/pages/1/index.htm


I'm fairly sure I have it to some degree, but have never been diagnosed. It can be beneficial in some ways.

[mr blur]

70. One of our kids has Aspergers...

He would have sat and argued the point for hours because he knew he was RIGHT! (I'm sure you know what I mean!)

[tridim]

34. I honestly don't know how those types of people go through life

being so ignorant. I don't understand why you would not want to know about stuff like this. Blaming it on the schools isn't a valid argument any more.. All the information is on the Internet.

It's like when I was sick with a bad cold for the last month. I didn't just want to get better, I wanted to know why my body was reacting the way it was. I spent about three hours on the net learning about mucus and the lungs. It was kind of pointless, but I'm glad I learned something new.

[tk2kewl]

47. did she write up the teacher for her stupidity

or did she just say it really didn't matter whether the sun was a star or a planet since there was no practical use for that knowlege

[redqueen]

52. I was wondering that as well.

That teacher needs to publicly state to the class that she was WRONG so the kids aren't confused by his/her idiocy.

[Squatch]

30. If you fix the observer's frame of reference to the earth, that 25%

will be correct.

[Squatch]

37. DUers, too:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2879517#2879583

[Rabrrrrrr]

39. Because of the influence of intelligence-fearing Christians, and because

America is a land that celebrates stupidity.

[Zenlitened]

43. There is a deficit of wonder in the world today.

We look up at the night sky and see... points of light, nothing more.

[Baclava]

56. We look...

We don't "see"...the world's beauty.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

54. It's because we live in an anti-intellectual culture

aided and abetted by the mass media, which tell us that all we need is athletic ability, physical beauty, and the Right Stuff (literally stuff, as in material possessions).

Only nerds know things.

Being ignorant is cute.

If you know things that other people don't, you're an elitist, and not one of the cool kids.

If you do know things, you shouldn't be singled out in any way, because that would make you snobbish.

Preferably, you should atone for your intelligence by taking up a sport or cheerleading, and then maybe, just maybe, the cool kids won't laugh at you or beat you up.

If you like to read, your relatives will think there's something wrong with you.

When you're grown up, people will be surprised if you know things outside your narrow specialty.

They will shrug when you talk of your travels and say, "I've got everything I want right here."

They voted for Bush because Gore was "too intellectual."

[ProfessorGAC]

57. Happens Right Here At DU

People don't want to be challenged in their basic assumptions. If one has specific knowledge and expertise in a subject, there are those, even right here on DU, that will pooh-pooh the message and the messenger, even to the point of denigrating the expertise.

I know, because it's happened to me.
The Professor

[arwalden]

61. Roger! Copy-That! Ten-Four! I Hear Ya!! Loud And Clear!!

And those who are too delicate to be challenged merely sit around in circles re-affirming their own misconceptions and ignorance and spreading the same to the gullible, trusting, and unsuspecting.

[ProfessorGAC]

63. What Are Ya Gonna Do?

All one can do, is their best. People will listen or not. If someone did work contrary to mine, using similar and statistically valid methodology, and then arrived at a different conclusion, i could understand.

But, to denigrate the work because it's the conclusions of a pointy headed academic/intellectual that disagrees with their preconceived notion can be distressing.

But, it is just an anonymous message board. So, i guess i just take it and smile.
The Professor

[qnr]

65. I wholeheartedly agree. I mean, it kind of denigrates the brain

to claim you can't remember things you were taught in grade school. I could understand if people were being asked to remember the chemical composition of nicotine, but that isn't the case.

[hfojvt]

64. expletive deleted

I might suggest that for an excellent example of someone pooh-poohing a message and a messenger would be post #38 of this thread, or is that somehow an unfair question?
Would you please explain the fifty ways?

[sugar magnolia]

62. My daughter loves science and learned a lot in pre-school & kindergarten

When she started 1st grade (public) she kept asking why there was no science. I asked the teacher that question and was told that they don't start teaching science until the 3rd grade because that's when it appears on the standardized tests. Crazy.

[Pacifist Patriot]

66. Crazy indeed.

My son became obsessed with astronomy when he was three. He could rattle off "irrelevant" facts about the moons of Jupiter when he was four. He's since forgotten quite a few things but retained more than his second grade peers have yet to learn. Standardized tests dictating curriculum makes my blood run cold.

[Baclava]

69. This is what I fear...

Children are being taught not to think...

[barb162]

75. When I watch Jay Leno and he asks people when WWII was and

they don't know and they don't know Arizona from Africa, I'd say science is not the only problem.