Can someone please explain this whole "Phantom of the Opera" thing?

[sundog]

I am utterly confused. :wtf:

E! was showing some sort of *making of* program which I was trying to digest in my slow waking hour this morning...

They showed movie clips of Minnie Driver with some sort of bizarre accent I couldn't understand a word of (like a comic relief moment or something)... There were clips of some sort of sword fight, some music (with that patented Andrew Lloyd Webber air guitar thingy), the inexterminable Joel Schumacher, some singing, *emotional depth* of the phantom, etc, etc, etc... I don't know.

So, anyway here lies the conundrum: Why was the movie completely ripped to shreds by critics, yet scored a whopping 7.0 on the IMDB user ratings?

Every IMDB user review says it's the greatest thing since the invention of plastic squeeze ketchup, best movie of the year & what not.

Is there a Phantom of the Opera cult which has sworn to defend it till death?

I have not seen either the play or the movie, so I am at a loss.

What gives? :shrug:

[ikojo]

1. Those who love Phantom LOVE Phantom

I saw the movie and want to see it again. I saw it with someone who has seen the play four times. She said the movie is pretty much true to the stage play.

[bigwillq]

2. My mom saw the musical three times on broadway and has seen

the movie twice already. She loves it.

I guess it's like all those who loved Lord of the Rings, Star Wars or those types of movies.

[Tweed]

9. In regards to your last line, NO NO NO NO NO

Don't mean to come across as harsh, but the people who really like Lord of the Rings and Star Wars have next to nothing in common with the people who really like Phantom of the Opera. Lord of the Rings and Star Wars mega fans are people who are into comic books, sci-fi and similar media. Phantom of the Opera fans are musical theatre fans who think that the world revolves around whether or not someone is wearing the right dress.

[Rabrrrrrr]

10. Nicely said! But I would put it this way:

Lord of the Rings and Star Wars mega fans are people who are into comic books, sci-fi and similar intellectual, thoughtful, artfully done, meaningful, relevant media. Phantom of the Opera fans are meremusical theatre fans who eschew the art-driven intellectual works that the LOTR/SW/Star Trek people are into and who, therefore, think that the world revolves around whether or not someone is wearing the right dress and who may very well decorate their homes with Home Interiors and Precious Moments stuff.

[porkrind]

37. Ah, Rabrrrrrr

Always with the appropriate comment, no matter what kind of shitstorm it might bring. :) You rock!

[Rabrrrrrr]

40. Thanks! Always happy to start an artistic shitstorm!

There's nothing more exciting to get into a flamewar over than stuff based solely on opinion with no possible way of objectively proving anyone's point.

I love flamewars about "My totally subjective reality is more intelligently and thoughtfully done than your totally subjective reality".

Whether it be "your band sucks" or "musical theater fans suck" or "the Packers are the best team ever!" or "Delaware is a state fit only for idiots who lick their beaters while the blender is still running".

Yeah, those are the fun kind of flamewars.

:evilgrin:

(though it's pretty objectively verifiable that Precious Moments, Home Interiors, and Thomas Kinkade do, in fact, utterly suck)

[porkrind]

41. Ha! reminds me of this..."The Geek Hierarchy"

[Rabrrrrrr]

42. That's hilarious!

Thanks for posting!

[wolfgirl]

11. I beg to differ with you...

I adore musical theater (Phantom is just one of my favorites)...but I'm also a huge LOTR-StarTrek-StarWars fan.

[Tweed]

18. Right, and there are other people out there just like you

But you and those other people don't make up the bulk of the Lord of the Rings fans.

[Chovexani]

29. Me too

And I find it hilarious that one group of nerds is insulted by being mentioned in the same group as another group of nerds.

'Cause, honestly? We're all nerds.

[Politicub]

30. "The nerd wars 2005"

Love it! LOTR geeks vs. Phantom spazzes.

Me personally, I love musical theater. Phantom is a very gaudy, showy spectacle. The music is catchy to some people. I own several showtune recordings, but not one Phantom. It just wasn't my bag, but my old college roommate was crazy about it. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

[sundog]

33. lmao...

When you cut all the bullshit, is there anyone on this board who isn't a nerd at heart??

Cool people are so fucking weird. Stay away from them! :7

[Tweed]

34. Seriously, you can't be "cool" and post on DU

We are all nerds. You have to be to keep coming back.

[housewolf]

49. Me too...

I don't see them as mutually exclusive...

Many people who were not science fiction/fantasy fans loved the Star Wars movies when they came out because they were such great films and great stories. This was less true with the Star Trek movies, they had more of a following from the tv show and less appeal with the general public. GOsh, when the first Star Wars movie came out, we stood in line for HOURS and saw it 7 times the first month it was out.

Same with Lord of the Rings, a great story well done, appeals to broad audiences.

Both have origins in mythology that speak to broad masses of humans.

I saw Phantom yesterday and thought it was spectacular - of course it's the music but it's also the grand spectacle of the thing. It's a good story, interesting characters, ... all in all, just very well done in my opinion and a pure delight. I don't know why the critics didn't like it. I heard something about opinions re. over-acting, etc - but it didn't detract, in my opinion. I'll see it again.

[barb162]

21. I really liked LOTR and saw the first one 6 times. I saw Phantom

the play and really liked it too. I intend to see the movie very soon. It was a cornball play in many respects but then again I could say "Carousel" and "Oklahoma" were too. I like musicals, so I also liked "Cats" and a whole bunch of other musicals too. Light-hearted entertainment in many respects, classic love story of unrequited love. I haven't read comic books since I was a little kid and the last sci-fi book I picked up was many years ago. And I couldn't get through the first 50 pages.

[Fiona]

3. I don't get it

it IS like a cult.

I saw the play and thought it sucked majorly. But I know people who really really liked it, and have seen it repeatedly, and they actually ENJOY listening to the soundtrack, which I thought was terrible.

But then, these are people who think they like opera because they listen to Sarah Brightman and Andrea Bocelli.

[BrklynLiberal]

5. Same thing with Les Miz. I hated it!!! and know people who LOVED it

and saw it multiple times.....

[barb162]

22. Les Miz was overrated IMHO. I saw the original London

production and the original actors and I kept hearing all this stuff from people who had just been in London about how incredible it was. So when I was in London I saw it and duh it was "good" and all but what were people raving so much about?

[Politicub]

31. Say what you want about Phantom

But don't you be dissin' my Les Miz. :)

In my screecghy falsetto - "There is a castle on a cloud..."

[sundog]

16. this must also be the same group

that gets really defensive when you say that Sarah Brightman lip-syncs all her concerts

I've gotten into heated battles with them & have been run off other message boards... she did have a good album called "Eden," but I watched the dvd & she lip-syncs every single song

[BrklynLiberal]

4. There have been movies that the critics panned, but the audiences loved.

Kind of underground hits. The fans judge it on different level than the critics.

[Rabrrrrrr]

6. Rabrrrrrr's quick and pointed explanation for most everything:

Most Americans are fools, and are especially clueless when it comes to art and things intellectual.

[Tweed]

7. Expect that IMDB score to drop... ALOT

This movie has cult favorite written all over it. The big Phantom fans are going to see it in large numbers. People who tend to like Phantom tend to like more light-heartened entertainment. When it comes to being serious, they eat up melodrama for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Before they go to bed, they like a little morsel of melodrama to help them sleep. They think that the serious aspects of Phantom are amazing and any movie that shares those aspects will get highly rated by them. When it comes to IMDB, they give votes of 1 or 10 with some room to a 2 or a 9 depending on if someone they have a crush on was in a terrible movie or someone who they despise was in a wonderful movie. All of the Phantom fans are giving the movie a 10 (unless they are jealous of Minnie Driver in which case they give a 9). You also have to throw in the fact that many teenagers are on the internet more than anyone else and teenagers are more likely to be into musicals (take my word on this one, I speak with experience). They are also more likely to say "I should give Phantom a 10 even before I've seen it! I know it's going to good". The other thing about 7.0 on IMDB is that I've found those to be hit or misses. I don't recommend movies that don't have anything higher than a 7.5 when they just come out. Don't ask me how it works, but in the past, I've been right 99% of the time on this one. As more people who aren't Phantom fans see this movie, it's score will tank. Don't worry, just give it time. Oh, and avoid it like the plague.

[Tweed]

26. Good insight

[SemiCharmedQuark]

47. Oh geez, here we go...

I hate these posts that look down on other people who like something that the artistic community has panned. Phantom was the first musical I ever saw, so it holds a special place in my heart.

Shall I stereotype Harry Potter fans because I don't like Harry Potter and do not feel that those books are well written?

I like Phantom. I don't think it is the best musical ever written, and I think it is pretty overdone. However, it is based on a gothic romance story which itself is overdone. But even if I thought it was the best play in the entire world, that doesn't mean my taste is any better or worse than yours because taste is personal.

I like what I like and I dislike what I dislike. If that lowers your opinion of me, than too bad. The only thing it proves is that you (in the general "you" sense) are a shallow snob.

[MLE]

8. hmm....

I don't know. I saw the musical when it came to the PAC here last May and I absolutely LOVED it!! I plan on seeing the movie just for that reason. I hope it's not a disappointment, but if it is I certainly wouldn't defend it.
The reason I loved it so much was because of the music, not the story. The voice quaility of the performers is what makes or brakes the show.

And if you get a chance, I highly recommend you see the play version.

[kodi]

12. when someone is done that, explain Cats

.

[graywarrior]

13. They're the opposite of DOGS

[barb162]

24. I loved that show. Of course I have 4 cats and all and I thought

the actors imitated the movements of cats pretty well and I cried at the one big song "Memories" or whatever it was....

[terrya]

14. Here it is in a nutshell. Andrew Lloyd Webber is a crappy composer...

who has one basic score. He's modified it for his other shows...Evita, Joseph and the Technicolor Dreamcoat, Jesus Christ Superstar, etc.

So, if you like that sort of thing, then you'll love Phantom. :-)

T

[Fiona]

15. but what's odd

is that I love Superstar and Evita. I think they're both fine musicals, especially Evita. But Cats, Phantom and Sunset Boulevard are all crap.

[Politicub]

32. I loved Sunset Boulevard

But not Cats. Funny how this stuff appeals to people differently.

Now don't get me started on Starlight Express. When's the movie for that coming out? :)

[mr blur]

27. No one ever went broke...

No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public."
-- Henry Mencken

NOT an anti-American comment - you could substitute "British", "French", "German" or any other nationality for "American". Especially, "British", as we seem to flock in our millions to see this shallow garbage. In fact, we must accept responsibility for unleashing AL-W on an undeserving world. Meanwhile, LLoyd-Webber is counting his squillions and thinking of himself as some kind of great composer. I've always thought that eventually he'll get round to Hitler or Stalin - like "The Producers" but without the humour.

[NashVegas]

38. "Not Everyone In NY Would Pay to See Andrew Lloyd Webber"

thank the Finn brothers for pointing that out.

[motely36]

17. OK, I know I'm weird, but I *love* musical theatre and LOTR and Star Wars

but I despise Andrew Lloyd Webber (except Superstar). All of his shows are based on pre-existing story lines, and his music is a rip-off of other scores, mostly Sondheim. Sweeney Todd is arguably the most amazing show to ever hit the great white way. Supposedly, Sam Mendez is directing a movie version of this musical (can anyone confirm this?). I'd save my money for this movie. If you really want to see Phantom, wait for it to pop up on HBO.

[sundog]

19. it seems that all h is musicals

(that I've seen) have these freaky *air guitars* in them -- that are meant to sound *hard rock* or something or other

[Tweed]

20. I totally agree right down to the Jesus Christ Superstar

Superstar is awesome, but all other Andrew Lloyd Webber stuff is crap to be consumed in mass quantities. Come one and all female bank tellers, receptionists and assistants of all kinds! Come schloop up crap from the trough of melodrama and mediocrity!

[tinfoilinfor2005]

23. Saw it yesterday,

and it was very much like the Broadway production which I've seen twice, once in NY and once in Miami. But yes, you have to like musical theater, or you will not enjoy it. I imagine there will be some disappointed teens who will mistakenly go in thinking that it will be a horror movie. I saw all of the LOTR movies, but mostly found them boring because of the never ending war scenes. But the scenery was awesome.

[barb162]

25. Sweeney Todd was terrific

[muriel_volestrangler]

28. Yes, there is a musical theatre cult

When the BBC got people to do a telephone vote for "The 100 Greatest Britons", the second highest living person was, at number 18, ... Michael Crawford (only Margaret Thatcher beat him, by one place, and we know she has a cult too). The BBC were so pissed off at this flagrant vote rigging that he was the only person in the list of 100 that the just said "and at number 18, Michael Crawford" and then passed on. Everyone else got a biography of at least a minute.

[tigerbeat]

35. i like a lot of musicals.....

but i absolutely LOATHE phantom of the opera. andrew lloyd weber lost whatever fastball he may of had between "evita" and "cats" (not coincidentally the same time he split from his writing partner: tim rice)

all of his crap after that point is absolute shite. and phantom is perhaps particularly loathesome due to it's inexplicable popularity. it's a tedious score filled with nothing but screeching "high points" masquerading as emotion or plot. the plodding tempos and hilariously bad guitars (swear to god, i'd rather listen to ELP's "tarkus" than some of what passes for "rock" opera in this show) make each song sound EXACTLY like the previous one. absolutely no variation or imagination.

i was forced to watch parts of an academy screener of this fatuous, bloviated piece of hell. and i have to agree with the salon review on this point: andrew lloyd weber and joel schumacher are really 11 year old girls.

i prefer to listen to "jesus christ superstar" or "evita" if i want to remember when ALW actually wrote interesting music.

[liontamer]

36. High Camp

phantom is such a fun, campy, over the top musical! I haven't seen the movie yet but I look forward to seeing minnie driver camping it up.

[sundog]

39. what sort of accent is it?

that's what's boggling my head

[liontamer]

43. not sure

but isn't carlotta supposed to be italian? So you'd have a british actress pretending to be an italian woman speaking french.

[pantouflard]

44. Pardon me for being a cranky party-pooper,

but I DO NOT get the popularity of ALW. He writes the most annoying music ever. Every time I hear one of those stupid Cats songs, it's "la-la-la-la" with my fingers in my ears.

And LOTR. Jesus Hubbard Christ, those were bad movies. I was astonished that they won so many awards, when there were plenty of better films that year.

Flame away, Broadway Fans!

:P

[JVS]

45. It sucks

That is the complete body of knowledge surrounding POTO!

[China_cat]

46. I don't know but one of the critics

I saw reviewing it said that he loved the play...and that the movie was even better.

I can't wait to see the movie. Phantom hasn't gone out on the road so I'll never get a chance to see it on the stage.

[Wat_Tyler]

48. Easy.

If you see the name Andrew Lloyd Webber on anything - you can be sure it's premium shite.

Basically, Lloyd Webber writes tacky musicals for the culturally-retarded, who, when the critics and others point out how lousy they are, get massively, massively defensive - much like Toby Keith's fans.

Lloyd Webber is also a massive Conservative.