Amen Sister Skittles! My response to "bright lights" thread...

[slor]

I got into a "debate" with one, cannot remember her name, that was defending a poor casino that decided to force a woman to prettify herself or lose the job (20+ years of service), and got sued, and I said I hope she sues and gets millions. Well she (it) attacked my view, and sadly a few genuine DUers (read: centrists) went to bat with her against me.

Sorry, got locked before I could post. Slow typing.

[supernova]

1. I read that thread

it was just amazing how getting gussied up is considered professional. I mean, what if you're allergic to makeup?

[liberalhistorian]

2. And she was a long-time

employee, too, that's what really gets me. There really is no loyalty at all on the part of most employers, no matter what you do, how hard you work, how much dedication and loyalty you show, it's never enough and it's never protection against them doing whatever the hell they want to do to you. The only employer you can ever really trust is yourself.

[tjdee]

5. Amen to that, which is why I wish I was more creative financially.

The idea of being self-employed is more attractive to me as I get older. I don't want to work for someone who will fire me at the drop of a hat for whatever they deem necessary. I don't want to rely on someone else's favor for my livelihood.

Unfortunately, I can't think of a viable business idea to save my life.

[liberalhistorian]

17. Well, I'm trying to get two started right now.

One is an independent paralegal services business, the other is what I call a "career communications" business, writing customized resumes and cover letters, doing job searches, and business research. I'd like to extend it eventually also to writing recruitment/employment ads.

[BiggJawn]

20. Keep working for somebody else...

You got the wrong ideas about being self-employed.

"I don't want to rely on someone else's favor for my livelihood."

Unless your business plan involves coming up behind people and mugging them, you depend on EVERYONE who walks in the door or rings your phone's "favor" for your livlihood.

Instead of having to learn how to deal with just ONE asshole, you got a diferent one coming in the door every day.


That's why I can't even spell "entrepreneur".

[tjdee]

21. That's a good point...

I perhaps should have said "whim"...but I guess it would be the same.

I don't like knowing that I could walk in tomorrow and be fired. I don't like that when I want to take a day off I have to ask permission like I'm five and asking to go to the bathroom in kindergarten. Among other things.

The idea of scrounging for my own clients/customers makes me nauseous for that "different asshole" reason (as well as the instability of being self-employed) but I sure would like to try it.

[jellybelly]

3. I didn't read the thread...

maybe the woman looked really horrible and was scaring away potential gamblers...
but it's not justified to fire really, REALLY UGLY people...:bounce:

[amazona]

7. the woman was 49 and did the job for 20 years

I remember that thread. It was a bartender at Harrah's Reno where she had been working for 20 years. A judge ruled that she could be fired for not wearing make-up.

A poster who had clearly never been in Harrah's Reno or probably any Harrah's was under the deluded impression that only beautiful Barbies-style womenfolk worked on the floor at Harrah's and that Harrah's was another Hooter's and could get away with this sort of discrimination.

The truth is that Harrah's puts plenty of plain-looking women on the floor, and far from hurting their business, they are becoming the industry leader -- one of the largest, if not the largest, casino business to have ever existed in human history. And Harrah's Reno has its share of neat but very plain-looking women on the floor. No gambler is frightened away, as the average age of their customers is around 67 (OK, slight exaggeration there) and they're all blind as brickbats anyway....

My reading of the story is that some manager or supervisor took a personal dislike to the woman for some unknown reason and just created an excuse to get rid of her.

Harrah's Reno has since offered to hire her back, with or without make-up. One judge made a bad call, saying that they could force her to wear make-up, but the point is moot. Harrah's no longer insists on the make-up, just on a neat well-groomed appearance.

Nonetheless, at least one poster seemed to believe that Harrah's could have -- should have -- required women who work on the floor to meet a standard of beauty only attainable by models, actresses, etc.

The discussion became silly. Harrah's does not have a right to insist that women remain young and beautiful forever, nor is this their usual policy.

Sorry for the length of my "summary." It's almost as long as the original thread, isn't it?

[liberalhistorian]

16. I wonder what

the grooming and appearance requirements for their male employees are? Somehow, I don't think they're quite as strict or ridiculous!

[tjdee]

4. I'm not a centrist, and I don't think she deserves to sue....

:shrug:

It's the same as that football player who didn't want to wear white socks. If I work at Hooters, or a casino, I know I'd better not be showing up in mens' boxer shorts and no makeup. I want to go to work in my houserobe, but i can't do that either.

If people were being jerks and personally attacking you, that stinks.

:hug:

[slor]

6. She had been showing up at work...

that way for 20+ years. Maybe she was getting close to retirement, and they decided to try and avoid payments. I do not know, but it was wrong what they did, and I stand by the lawsuit.

[amazona]

8. the lawsuit was a good suit

She was right to sue. Anyone doing a job for 20 years should sue if they are fired for what appears to be a made-up reason, because age discrimination or another similar issue could be the real cause.

She got a bad judge who made a bad call but she still did the right thing in litigating. I don't think she was asking for "millions." She just wanted the right to do her job without harassment.

[bettyellen]

11. no, it makes no sense, she was there for 20 years looking the same

and all of a sudden it's something that they fired her over???
someone at harrah's was pullig some crap. they should be sued.
it was probably a new manager who wanted to bring in their own person, or didn't want to hear anything from an old timer .

[Meowser]

9. It sounded like ageism/sexism to me

It's one thing to have good hygeniene (clean hair, presentable nails, etc.), but to force a woman of 'a certain age' to wear makeup smacks of ageism to me. Do they make their overweight, middle-aged male workers wear toupees, girdles, etc.? If not, then that bartender definitely has a case.

[NightTrain]

10. Since when are centrists the "genuine DUers?"

[slor]

13. "genuine DUers?"" was meant as...

people I did not believe were freepers, like the one that was so fervently defending the casino. Also, I am clearly suggesting that centrists are a bad thing for the party, particularly right now in our nation, as they were the ones that "went to bat with her against me", defending with a freeper/troll, a policy I wholeheartedly opposed. Believe me, I was NOT saying what you thought I was saying.

[amazona]

14. anti-labor is not centrist

I don't feel it is fair for people who are pro-corporation and anti-labor to claim that they are in any way centrist, as pro-labor is supposed to be a core value of the Democrats.

I'm not so sure that one poster in that thread is not a troll or a disruptor. Time will tell. Meanwhile I wouldn't let that person get to me if I were you. I'm confident most of us in the thread knew what you were trying to say. We may not agree on the amount of damages due but I think it is pretty centrist and reasonable to agree that if a worker is fired for unfair cause, she should be able to litigate. If that is an extremist leftwing position, then it's getting pretty scary in this country.

[slor]

15. With the right shift...

that appears to have befallen our country, I would respectfully disagree. I never would have believed that people would be OK with locking Muslims away, and in the way that they did, but that appears to be the case. Large numbers of people OK with torture, at least based on polls done in recent memory. And many are still willing to go along with this war, in the face of all that they have seen. I am sad about it too, but it appears to have been a tilt to the right. Or a sharp decline of intelligence.

On Edit: That poster did not get to me, I just decided to mention it because of the Skittle's post. And no, I did not think that she should really win millions, not in lieu of simply getting her job back, and never hearing another remark of mandatory make-up. But I was angered by what they tried to do to her, and in my rhetorical zeal, millions sounded about right.

Further Edit: Just listen to party stalwarts now, like Schumer, H.Clinton, and Pelosi. They are advocating a stance that is anathema to the Democratic Party that I believe in.

[Karenina]

12. May the "moran" who decided to

"set the standard" for a 20 year employee meet the same fate as the exec who decided to "reformulate" Coca-cola. :evilgrin:

[Guaranteed]

18. I was listening to (newsanchor and radio show host) Pete Wilson debate

this when I was back in California. He's FAIRLY liberal, but he actually sided with Harrah's on this.

I'm not entirely sure what my opinion is on the matter. But I've heard all the arguments.

[dweller]

19. i didn't read the thread, but if Skittles jumped in

there was surely some serious ASS KICKING involved, i've no doubt.

it's a beauty to behold, isn't it?
dp