How Come When The Heat Get Beat It's News But When The Lakers Lose It Isn'

[DemocratSinceBirth]

t

The Heat are 28-10 with Shaq Daddy...


The Lakers are 18-15 without Shaq Daddy...


Looks like Dr. Buss ain't so smart after all....

[kick-ass-bob]

1. Hmmmm,

maybe because they all knew Kobe can't lead a team?

:evilgrin:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

2. I Think Dr. Buss Made A Mistake....

Age was the major reason he traded Shaq...


Shaq still can be productive another two to four years... That's an eternity in pro sports...


The Lakers are stuck with Kobe... A Tim Duncan, a Kevin Garnett, or even a Grant Hill isn't going to LA to play in Kobe's shadow...

[kick-ass-bob]

3. I think Kobe was the main reason he traded Shaq.

Dump a big man for a winger?
They'll get what they deserve.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

4. outside of shaq's age the trade made no sense at all...

the heat may or may not win a championship but they are a 50+ win team for the next several years as long as shaq stays healthy...

[liberalpress]

5. In keeping with some of the posts I've seen here lately...

I am so tired of the way the MSM covers basketball in this country.According to them, the Heat are obviously filled with honest, God-fearing Americans. They are never supposed to lose. If you don't support them you're not a real American.

You never hear about the Lakers losses becuase The Lakers, on the other hand, are Godless immoral baby-killing "Liberals" who deserve to lose because thier style of play has been rejected time and again by real Americans at the polls.

God I hate the MSM

[ThorsHammer]

6. ?

I'm not sure what you're talking about. From what I've seen, people are mostly pissed at Kobe for forcing everyone else out. Like one of the posters said above, it's also going to be hard to bring in another star to play in Kobe's shadow. IMO, even last year's support for the Pistons was more for the fact that they actually played team basketball and were a huge underdog. No one wanted to cheer for Goliath.

[liberalpress]

7. I was referring to the television threads...

most notably about "24" and "Law and Order"

[DemocratSinceBirth]

11. It's Not That Kobe is A Bad Guy.. ......

It's easier to get "stars" to play around a dominant big man than it is to get "stars" to play around a great guard....

[kick-ass-bob]

8. Whoa.

That's a little far out there.

You don't see stories about the Lakers losing because they are a mediocre team. The Heat made great improvements and are an up and coming team, with a mix of youth and experience.

How that gets to the Lakers being the 'liberal' counterpart - I think you are making too many leaps.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

9. for what's it worth shaq daddy is a nominal democrat...

in 00 he was on with Howard Stern and said he was backing Gore...


I don't think political philosophy has anything to do with what I believe are unreal expectations for the Lakers....

[XNASA]

10. Because the Lakers suck.

How 'bout them Bulls, BTW?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. The Lakers Don't Suck...

They are an average team which in the NBA usually gets you a playoff birth but they aren't Showtime or the 2000-2003 Lakers...


The 2000-2003 Lakers versus the Michael Jordan Bulls would have been a great series...


Kobe is closer in talent to MJ than Luc Longley is closer in talent to Shaq and that IMHO would have made all the difference...

[ThorsHammer]

13. Yeah, but you didn't see Pippen or MJ driving the other one away

[DemocratSinceBirth]

15. I'm Over Kobe Hating.... Let Him Deal With His Own Karma,,, Good Or Bad...

I'm a huge Shaq fan since his days for the Magic.....


I just want him to do well....



IMHO he's one of the four or five best centers of all time along with Bill Russell, Wilt, and Kareem....


I let others argue over who was the best of the four....

[ThorsHammer]

17. I feel the same way

He made his bed, now he has to sleep in it. I can't stand him, but he is a very talented player. Hopefully he will mature, much like MJ did. On the other hand, I like Shaq. I don't think he's as talented as other big men, but he has ridiculous athleticism and dominates like no one else.

[XNASA]

14. During the Bulls Dynasty, it didn't matter who played center.

The function of the Bulls center back then was to play defense and rebound. They usually went 3 or 4 deep at center which gave them 18-24 fouls in the paint. To compare Longley, or Cartwright with Shaq is unfair.

The Bulls Mk II, Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, Harper, etc. were the greatest team in NBA history. Period.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

18. That's What I'm Saying...

Kobe's not as good as MJ but he's close... Even Phil Jackson would admit that...In fact Phil Jackson said Kobe was the best player he has seen "with the ball" and MJ's the best player he has seen "without it"...


My point is the huge advantage the Lakers have at center could have mitigated Chicago's advantage at guard....It's hard for me to see a 28 year old Shaq not putting up forty or fifty points a game against Longley or Cartwright

[ProfessorGAC]

19. You Grossly Underestimate Longley & Cartwright's Defense

Hakeem, Ewing, Chambers, Shaq in Orlando, et al did not dominate the middle against those two guys. The Bulls not only had VERY good defensive presence in the lane, but they set double down traps and rotations to the passing lanes better than any team in history.

Centers couldn't put up big number against them because the double team came very quickly and long armed and ultraquick wings like Jordan and Pippen limited the passing options.

Shaq did NOTHING against the Bulls Mk II with Longley at center. Luc Freakin' Longley! It's because the team defense was so effective, not because Shaq wasn't thrice the player that Longeley was. The Bulls had the ultimate superstar and were still the ultimate defensive team. All five starters were superb defenders and 3 of the first 4 guys off the bench were too.

Unlike football, where "defense wins championships" is a myth, it's true in basketball. The Bulls didn't win 6 in 8 years because of Jordan's scoring. They won on the fact that they played the best team defense of all time.
The Professor

[DemocratSinceBirth]

22. I'd Have To Look...

I know the year the Magic won the Eastern Championship they beat the Bulls to get there...I don't remember Shaq's numbers but I'd bet my computer they were huge...


Granted that was the year MJ came back from his baseball hiatus....


Even at 32 double teams can't stop Shaq... The only thing the double team does is get him to the foul line where he admittedly struggles...


I respect Hakeem and Patrick Ewing but they are not in Shaq's class by any measure:scoring, championships, and most importantly league MVPs which Shaq has three...

Unlike the brash Bulls fans I am not saying the 2000-2003 Lakers would have destroyed the Bulls but it would have been a competitive series...

Michael Jordan is arguably better than Kobe but I doubt any serious basketball analyst would argue that one could shut down the other...

[ProfessorGAC]

25. They Beat The Bulls, Yes, But

Jordan had retired, Cartwright had retired, Toni Kukoc was playing the 4 and Horace Grant had left the team. Basically, they had 2 starters from the prior championship team, and didn't have Longley yet. The center was Will Purdue.

Hakeem has two championships, an MVP and was the Defensive First Team Center 10 times. How many times for Shaq? Oh yeah. You seem to be overestimating Shaq or underestimating Hakeem. In my book, and i've been wathcing the NBA since the mid-60's, Hakeem is one the best 5 centers ever.

As to the Kobe/Jordan thing: I won't get into a pissing contest over that. Just let me say that the next time Kobe guards someone will be the first time.
The Professor

[DemocratSinceBirth]

28. Horace Grant Was Playing For The Magic That Year...

That was a decent Magic team... How they self destructed against the Rockets is amazing...


Shaq plays both sides of the ball... That's why he was league MVP three times... Isn't the most valuable player the best measure of a players worth?


That's why they call him the "most valuable player"....

[ProfessorGAC]

30. I'm No Shaq Hater

Don't get me wrong. I don't denigrate Shaq's ability or accomplishments. He's been a wonderful player. I just think you underestimated the interior defense of the Bulls, and when you said Hakeem was no Shaq, well you got my back up. Hakeem was a PHENOMENAL center for many, many years.
The Professor

[ProfessorGAC]

20. OOPS! Double Post!

n/t

[XNASA]

21. Nobody ever put up those kind of numbers against a Bulls team back then.

If you remember, Shaq was a force at the time too. He was never able to do much against the Bulls in their hey day.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

24. I Seem To Remember The Magic Beating The Bulls To Win The Eastern

Conference....


I remember a good guard, Penny Hardway, giving MJ all he could handle and Anfernee Hardaway was no Kobe Bryant...

[ProfessorGAC]

27. See my other post

No Jordan, no Cartwright, no Grant, Kukoc playing out of position at 4, Ron Harper at 2, and WIll Purdue at Center. You were saying?
The Professor

[DemocratSinceBirth]

29. Michael Jordan Was There....

I'm just saying the Bulls weren't invincible...



Do yo really think the Bulls would have swept the 00-03 Lakers?


That's what you seem to be arguing...

[ProfessorGAC]

31. I Wasn't Arguing Anything

And no, as great as the Bulls were, they never swept anyone in the Finals. Teams aren't supposed to be able to sweep the opponent on the Finals. The other team is supposed to be excellent too!

I never even took a position on the Lakers v. Bulls. Where did you get that from? I just said that Shaq would not be the determining factor that the other poster claimed, because he was groslly underestimating the quality of the team defense of the championship era Bulls. That's why Hakeem, in all his greatness, couldn't dominate them either. In his prime, Hakeem was every bit the player Shaq was. Not as big, of course, but considerably quicker. Probably the quickest center of all time. And still 6'10" and 275 pounds. He was a monster too, and they didn't dominate the Bulls.

All i'm saying is that Shaq would not have the difference maker in such a series that the other poster claimed. Do i think the Bulls would have won a seven game series? Yes. The Pistons beat the Lakers, (i know a different overall team), and last year's Pistons were not the championship era Bulls. I'll take a wild flyer and say Bulls in six. But, we'll never know. Too bad.
The Professsor

[ProfessorGAC]

16. You Beat Me To It!

Baby Bulls are becoming "Respectabull" again. Second best record in the east since December 1st. FINALLY!
The Professor

[GOPBasher]

23. As a Lakers fan, I must say,

You are absolutely right! Getting rid of Shaq in favor of Kobe was the most retarded thing the Lakers organization has ever done. I actually am rooting against my team for this year, because I hate Kobe and I want him to see what it feels like to lose because they lost Shaq.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

26. I Don't Want To Be A Playa Hata..

All superstars have enormous egos including Shaq but Shaq is at a point in his career where he's willing to share the limelight with other players...


I think Kobe resented the fact that he owes much of his success not his stats to Shaq....